False rape accusation...who would you believe?

the_pen_turner · 17-01-2020 10:45PM

Candie wrote: »

Men having sex with kids, but the men are the victims of scumbag underage girls.

Jesus.

there is a big diference between having sex with a 10 year old and a 17 year old who says she is 18 or more. one is clearly pedophilia , the other is less clear cut.
short of asking for a birth cert what can a guy do to make sure she is actually 18

creditcarder · 17-01-2020 11:40PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Not even women, his comments were about children

Honestly, you should be more focused on girls pretending to be older and blackmailing men. They are pretty scummy at that stage and deserve a pretty serious punishment.

Edit: Honestly, your comments about children are slightly absurd in this regard. A better word is criminals.

eviltwin · 18-01-2020 12:35AM

creditcarder wrote: »

Honestly, you should be more focused on girls pretending to be older and blackmailing men. They are pretty scummy at that stage and deserve a pretty serious punishment.

Edit: Honestly, your comments about children are slightly absurd in this regard. A better word is criminals.

Yes we should think of those poor men being taken in by hordes of nefarious children.

If only children weren't so damn sexy.....

Salary Negotiator · 18-01-2020 12:44AM

creditcarder wrote: »

Honestly, you should be more focused on girls pretending to be older and blackmailing men. They are pretty scummy at that stage and deserve a pretty serious punishment.

Edit: Honestly, your comments about children are slightly absurd in this regard. A better word is criminals.

What girls? There’s no evidence that this is actually happening.

If a fella had sex with an underage girl and was subsequently blackmailed by the same girl why would he then tell people what had happened.

The whole point of paying the bribe would be to keep it quiet.

It makes no sense, the more likely story is this is something paddy picked up from some intel type website.

That or he heard it from McGregor.

ittakestwo · 18-01-2020 05:39AM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

there is a big diference between having sex with a 10 year old and a 17 year old who says she is 18 or more. one is clearly pedophilia , the other is less clear cut.
short of asking for a birth cert what can a guy do to make sure she is actually 18

The age of consent is 17 in Ireland.

They are two different crimes. One is rape and one is blackmail.

Not sure of his logic or piont he was trying to make.....was his piont. "There is some scum bag men that rape but that is offset by scum bag girls who blackmail after being raped"?.... . He seems to be taking a serious issue of rape as a battle of the genders.

His comments were idiotic. Made worse by the fact he represents a political party of the country.

One eyed Jack · 18-01-2020 06:34AM

iptba wrote: »

Not exactly the same as a false rape allegation. But it may be interesting that highlighting that men could be a victim of a sort isn't seen as acceptable.

That’s not highlighting that men could be... “a victim of a sort”, it’s clearly a deliberate attempt to portray men as victims of something, and how it isn’t acceptable to do so. It’s not acceptable to do so because the attempt to portray men as victims in that scenario is bullshìt, frankly.

He goes on to complain that he is petrified for his two sons, and then further makes the claim that it’s somehow terrible that men can’t joke about this sort of behaviour -

The pair went on to discuss the ethics of always believing victims of sexual violence. Mr Holohan suggested that men suffered from double standards, and said a woman could joke about chopping a man's dick off, but a man can't joke about his "bitch" getting into bed, and her annoying him so much that he "strangled her and boxed the head off her".

Poor Paddy, everyone always taking what he says out of context. I don’t believe there is any context in which it is generally considered acceptable to joke about getting bitches into bed, strangling them and boxing the head off them, unless one is a complete and utter scumbag, in which case it shouldn’t surprise him that sympathy for the predicament in which he finds himself as a consequence of his own actions, is in short supply.

I don’t share his fears for his sons at all either tbh, I’d imagine they’re embarrassed by any association with the clown as anyone else who has chosen to distance themselves from his idiocy.

Ironicname · 18-01-2020 02:27PM

One eyed Jack wrote:

Poor Paddy, everyone always taking what he says out of context. I donâ€™t believe there is any context in which it is generally considered acceptable to joke about getting bitches into bed, strangling them and boxing the head off them, unless one is a complete and utter scumbag, in which case it shouldnâ€™t surprise him that sympathy for the predicament in which he finds himself as a consequence of his own actions, is in short supply.

I disagree. He was highlighting a double standard where women can joke about woman on male violence without serious repercussions whereas a man can't do the same.

I agree his framing was done in a very ineloquent manner but I didn't get the impression he was lamenting the fact he couldn't joke about it, rather he was frustrated that women could joke about serious violence against men.

the_pen_turner · 18-01-2020 02:29PM

ittakestwo wrote: »

The age of consent is 17 in Ireland.

They are two different crimes. One is rape and one is blackmail.

Not sure of his logic or piont he was trying to make.....was his piont. "There is some scum bag men that rape but that is offset by scum bag girls who blackmail after being raped"?.... . He seems to be taking a serious issue of rape as a battle of the genders.

His comments were idiotic. Made worse by the fact he represents a political party of the country.

the point is that the sex was consentual between an adult and a girl that was saying she was of consentual age.

the vast majority of he comments are stupid and dangerous. but there is nthing wrong with this one once its factually correct

creditcarder · 18-01-2020 02:56PM

ittakestwo wrote: »

The age of consent is 17 in Ireland.

They are two different crimes. One is rape and one is blackmail.

Not sure of his logic or piont he was trying to make.....was his piont. "There is some scum bag men that rape but that is offset by scum bag girls who blackmail after being raped"?.... . He seems to be taking a serious issue of rape as a battle of the genders.

His comments were idiotic. Made worse by the fact he represents a political party of the country.

How are you raped if you lie to the man about your age to get him into bed? That does seem a stretch to be honest.

Ironicname · 18-01-2020 03:08PM

creditcarder wrote:

How are you raped if you lie to the man about your age to get him into bed? That does seem a stretch to be honest.

Statutory rape. It's a huge stretch and working on a technicality.

ittakestwo · 19-01-2020 11:54AM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

the point is that the sex was consentual between an adult and a girl that was saying she was of consentual age.

the vast majority of he comments are stupid and dangerous. but there is nthing wrong with this one once its factually correct

I disagree I think there was a lot wrong with what he said. You interpreted my piont wrong btw.

The conversation he was having with the interviewer was discussing how there is double standard, nobody complains if there is women only gym classes but Paddy said if he was to offer men only classes he would expect complainants.... fair enough piont.

But then the interviewer suggests well perhaps there is demand for women only classes because they have been attacked by "scum bag men". Then he does not answer that piont but seems to make a point well there maybe scum bag men that rape but there is scumbag girls who blackmail..... that was an idotic point to make then.

I see a lot of people who claim to know him say he is a gent but he really let's himself down in interviews.

the_pen_turner · 19-01-2020 12:10PM

ittakestwo wrote: »

I disagree I think there was a lot wrong with what he said. You interpreted my piont wrong btw.

The conversation he was having with the interviewer was discussing how there is double standard, nobody complains if there is women only gym classes but Paddy said if he was to offer men only classes he would expect complainants.... fair enough piont.

But then the interviewer suggests well perhaps there is demand for women only classes because they have been attacked by "scum bag men". Then he does not answer that piont but seems to make a point well there maybe scum bag men that rape but there is scumbag girls who blackmail..... that was an idotic point to make then.

I see a lot of people who claim to know him say he is a gent but he really let's himself down in interviews.

i dont know him or anything much about him. he comes across a a clown from what i heard about him.

im not sure of your point.
he seems to be comparing men who rape to women who rape (these men did not consent to have sex with these girls) asuming there is truth to the story

ittakestwo · 19-01-2020 12:27PM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i dont know him or anything much about him. he comes across a a clown from what i heard about him.

im not sure of your point.
he seems to be comparing men who rape to women who rape (these men did not consent to have sex with these girls) asuming there is truth to the story

No. He had the childish logic of... well there maybe scum bag men that rape but with about scum bag girls who blackmail... was making the subject of rape into battle of the genders

And if an adult sleeps with a child under the age of 17 they have raped them by the fact the child was not old enough to give consent.

the_pen_turner · 19-01-2020 01:24PM

ittakestwo wrote: »

No. He had the childish logic of... well there maybe scum bag men that rape but with about scum bag girls who blackmail... was making the subject of rape into battle of the genders

And if an adult sleeps with a child under the age of 17 they have raped them by the fact the child was not old enough to give consent.

im not sure its a battle of genders. it is a valid counter agugment assuming its true

of course she is under age and to bee seen as rape but he also had sex with somone where his consent was not valid. had he known her age he wouldnt have consented. there for he was raped too

19-01-2020 02:22PM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

im not sure its a battle of genders. it is a valid counter agugment assuming its true

of course she is under age and to bee seen as rape but he also had sex with somone where his consent was not valid. had he known her age he wouldnt have consented. there for he was raped too

No. He was tricked. That's not, and shouldn't be considered rape. And TBF if an underage minor (male or female regardless) goes seeking sex with an adult, it shouldn't be considered any degree of rape either. Personal responsibility should be given an importance in peoples lives.

Just as if you're in an over 18s nightclub, pick up someone, and have sex, you shouldn't be hit with rape with a minor since they chose to break the law by entering under false pretenses. It's ridiculous to expect adults to know or check the age of other people in a setting where the minimum age should be that of an adult.

Personally, I do check for ID with anyone I consider to be quite young. If they get annoyed, and walk away, so be it. However, better safe than sorry.

creditcarder · 19-01-2020 05:39PM

ittakestwo wrote: »

No. He had the childish logic of... well there maybe scum bag men that rape but with about scum bag girls who blackmail... was making the subject of rape into battle of the genders

And if an adult sleeps with a child under the age of 17 they have raped them by the fact the child was not old enough to give consent.

Tbh, that's already been made by feminism, and your second point is quite lacking . It's statutory rape, sure, but if the woman lies about her age and has used a fake id to get into a bar/nightclub, then it's not rape. Sorry.

ittakestwo · 19-01-2020 08:01PM

creditcarder wrote: »

Tbh, that's already been made by feminism, and your second point is quite lacking . It's statutory rape, sure, but if the woman lies about her age and has used a fake id to get into a bar/nightclub, then it's not rape. Sorry.

Really I never saw that piont made on this thread. Tho Not surprised a lot of people read his comments about rape as inciting a gender battle.

Your or my subjective view of what rape is does not change what the legal definition is in this country. Fact is in Ireland if an adult sleeps with a child under 17 they have raped them.

iptba · 19-01-2020 11:14PM

26 Years Later, Justice for Men Imprisoned for a Bogus Rape

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/nyregion/innocence-project-manhattan-rape.html

iptba · 25-01-2020 03:06AM

Another case involving the kangaroo courts in US colleges

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRUIxXdUQeE

EXCLUSIVE: Columbia University Found Him Guilty. But He’s Got Voice Recordings, And He’s Not Afraid

https://dailycaller.com/2020/01/23/columbia-university-guilty-ben-feibleman-voice-recordings/

creditcarder · 25-01-2020 12:28PM

iptba wrote: »

Another case involving the kangaroo courts in US colleges
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRUIxXdUQeE

https://dailycaller.com/2020/01/23/columbia-university-guilty-ben-feibleman-voice-recordings/

I wonder is a wedding ring a good way to avoid a micro or macro false accusation? You know, as most of these loser women are cowards and would be afraid of an angry wife? Something to think about tbh.

I am classing micro accusations as being called creepy, or false rumours of perviness which, I'm going to sound like a douchebag by saying this, are kind of common tbh. I see it so often when Americans travel abroad.

Silentcorner · 25-01-2020 01:10PM

iptba wrote: »

Another case involving the kangaroo courts in US colleges
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRUIxXdUQeE

https://dailycaller.com/2020/01/23/columbia-university-guilty-ben-feibleman-voice-recordings/

Feminists have a big problem on their hands with these kangaroo courts, they were established by convincing the Obama Administration that women were being raped on Campuses across the States in alarming numbers....the stats they used (a lot like the Gender Pay Gap) were completely misrepresenting the reality...

Does Academia face up to the fact that these courts are not just inhumane, but are a complete disaster as a lot of campuses are now facing huge lawsuits.

There is a very good reason why we are not familiar with the conviction rates, case numbers and such because they come nowhere near what Feminists has origionally predicted...in fact, they have revealed that women are just as likely to make a false accusation as men are to actually sexually assault a woman, thankfully, the amount of cases are minuscule...

But this is yet another complete s##tshow that Feminism has caused...there will be more to come over the coming years!

Ironicname · 25-01-2020 06:07PM

Actually, I'd like to weed out the wheat from the chaff.

Is it possible that a man can be born with a vagina?

iptba · 25-01-2020 10:24PM

I happened to be listening to an RTE Radio 1 interview on Friday evening (10-10:30 PM) with a priest.
He happened to mention, possibly after a question about what was his biggest fear, that the thing he feared most was an allegation of (child) sexual abuse, that his career would be over if that happened. Note this isn't a conviction, this is just simply an allegation. He didn't sound particularly bitter and said he could understand it based on what happened previously.

kevinc565 · 25-01-2020 10:27PM

jeanjolie wrote: »

False rape accusation is an unlikely though possibly frightening thing that can happen to a man. He can lose his job, lose friends, go on the sex offender list, and even if he's removed of it, vigilantes will probably attack him. I'm not aware of anyone in Ireland who has been accused but then again I don't have many male friends.

Getting to the point, rape is a pretty difficult crime to prosecute due to the nature (the act is legal itself), however on the unfortunate flip side, your 'character' and 'reputation' is usually judged regardless of evidence.

An example is n the US, a high number of false rape cases involved poor African American males due to their generally low socioeconomic status, high crime rates (for that racial group, not every black person). Even if they would never harm their children or girlfriend, the idea that 'If you've done this in the past, then you've probably done this or are capable of this' is very prevalent.

So now using an Irish example, if you go back to you secondary school as a teenager and knew this weird quiet lad who was quite creepy and made some sexual jokes and inappropriate jokes on and off. A girl you know in your social circle befriends this guy, they hang out and have rough anal sex, she doesn't like it, falls out with this guy and then she spreads this rumor that she was sodomized by this guy. Would you believe her? This guy is very weird and she does share weird things that he has said to her, but denies rape.

It's scary to think that a bunch of teen lads from my school would probably beat up the guy based of a lie like that, but then again he doesn't have a good reputation.

Realistically, what would you do?

Sodomized? Sodomy isn’t a crime. So what is the issue?

kevinc565 · 26-01-2020 12:19AM

Sonics2k wrote: »

I've seen this happen, actually I've seen both real accusations and false accusations.

In all cases they should be treated as serious as any other crime, however they should be able to prove it the same as any other crime.

1 guy I knew who was charged and jailed for it got the typical defence from people, he was a nice guy, harmless and kind, would never hurt a fly. There was overwhelming evidence and he eventually admitted guilt.

Rape is imo the most heinous of crimes, and if proven guilty you should be jailed for a very very long time. However, if you make a false claim of rape, you should also be jailed for a period of time.

"Very long period" for the rape but only a "long period" for trying to get someone in jailed for a very long period. Doesn't seem fair.

kevinc565 · 26-01-2020 12:35AM

Deleted User wrote: »

For me it is a no-brainer personally because one of the few axioms I hold passionately to at the root of most of my thinking on many issues - not just legal ones but moral ones too - is that of "Innocent until proven guilty".

But it being a no-brainer does not mean it sits easily with me and I realise that some crimes - even some pretty awful ones like rape - are hard to prove and prosecute. So while I hold dear to my axiom - it is obviously an axiom that negatively impacts some victims of crimes much more heavily than others.

I wish it were not so - I wish it were otherwise. But as awful as the reality of it is - is it awful enough to throw the axiom out of the window entirely? And replace it with what? Anything else I can think of is just worse.

What is worse is that it does not take much imagination to come up with a thought experiment to test just how dedicated to that axiom one might be. One could say all day long that they hold true to "Innocent until proven guilty" but what if someone very near and very dear to you said "X raped me and I have no evidence of it". It is a moral and emotional minefield how one can proceed in that situation in a way that in some ways acts like you believe the accusation and in other ways that you do not.

Not one aspect of rape before during or after is anything but a complete horror is it.

"innocent until proven guilty" is just a phrase. It really means legally innocent until proven guilty in court. So on can be legally innocent but we all know that he/she did it and should gave been found guilty e.g. getting off on technicality.

Ironicname · 26-01-2020 12:38AM

kevinc565 wrote:

"innocent until proven guilty" is just a phrase. It really means legally innocent until proven guilty in court. So on can be legally innocent but we all know that he/she did it and should gave been found guilty e.g. getting off on technicality.

What the hell are you talking about?

Are you saying that people aren't innocent until they are proven guilty?

kevinc565 · 26-01-2020 01:24AM

Ironicname wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about?

Are you saying that people aren't innocent until they are proven guilty?

This is a semantic argument.

1) From a legal perspective a person is legally innocent until convicted and found guilty in a court of law. It has to be that way, otherwise the law of the jungle would prevail.

2) however , a person who commits a crime is guilty ( guilt = culpable of or responsible for a specified wrongdoing) of committing that crime from the moment the crime is committed. The courts just "find" people guilty many days/weeks/months/years after the fact.

ittakestwo · 26-01-2020 11:26AM

Ironicname wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about?

Are you saying that people aren't innocent until they are proven guilty?

Under law a person is innocent till proven guilty.

But in Ireland it's very hard to prove rape. Only 10% of reported rapes will end in conviction. So does that imply that 90% of the reported rapes were false accusations and made up?..... of course not that figure although hard to determine is estimated to be about 10% of reported rapes. Which would mean about 80% of reported rapes were not a false accusations but lead to no conviction.

creditcarder · 26-01-2020 02:48PM

ittakestwo wrote: »

Under law a person is innocent till proven guilty.

But in Ireland it's very hard to prove rape. Only 10% of reported rapes will end in conviction. So does that imply that 90% of the reported rapes were false accusations and made up?..... of course not that figure although hard to determine is estimated to be about 10% of reported rapes. Which would mean about 80% of reported rapes were not a false accusations but lead to no conviction.

Why not? The figures about false accusations you are saying are dubious as most police are not going to investigate if an accusation is false, and that doesn't include times where the woman says she was 'drunk', she did not explicetly say yes, or some other form of malarkey.

Tbh, if the figure is 10 % of proven false accusations then I imagine you can multiply that by a disturbing degree.

False rape accusation...who would you believe?

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