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Electric heaters in renovated rental property

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  • 14-01-2020 7:46pm
    #1
    oldsmokey
    Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭


    Hi, we,re in the throes of renovating a property with a view to eventual renying. We,re trying to minimise cost, therefore not have a boiler system fitted, its a 2 bedroom flat....has anyone here experience of elec heaters in this situation? Any other options? Thanks..we,ll fit elec showrrs and undersink water heater...


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    #2
    DublinDilbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    How well insulated is the property? how many external walls? what quality are the windows?

    Electric heating can work well, provided there is very little losses from the property.


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    #3
    oldsmokey
    Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭oldsmokey


    Hi, its terraced, so two external walls, reasonable level of insulation, windows double glazed. I'm a bit concerned that prospective tenants will be put off by elec heating..


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    #4
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    What is a reasonable level of insulation?
    How old is the house, what is the current BER rating on it? Even though the windows are double glazed it doesn't guarantee they are good.


    Personally, I wouldn't rent a house with electric heating.


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    #5
    oldsmokey
    Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭oldsmokey


    Hi, its not BER'd yet...why would you not rent with elec heating? Ta


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    #6
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,362 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    oldsmokey wrote: »
    Hi, its not BER'd yet...why would you not rent with elec heating? Ta

    Because it's probably the most expensive form of heat you can buy. Nothing beats electricity for convenience - no boiler, no oil tank, no deliveries. So the fact that oil and gas are so popular speaks for itself.

    Where you can't have an oil tank (e.g. an apartment) or there is no town gas supply, storage heaters atttached to a night meter are an option but electric heating on the regular meter will cost an arm and a leg.


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    #7
    caff
    Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭caff


    Rented a few places before with electric or storage heating. Would put me off, was a pain to get the timer etc setup an then the bills came in...


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    #8
    oldsmokey
    Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭oldsmokey


    caff wrote: »
    Rented a few places before with electric or storage heating. Would put me off, was a pain to get the timer etc setup an then the bills came in...

    I know this aint the correct forum, but....would gas be a feasible runner?.. theres room and access for a tank...ta


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    #9
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,407 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    With a dual meter, storage heating would be acceptable in most apartments. It’s a landlords market.


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    #10
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    With a dual meter, storage heating would be acceptable in most apartments. It’s a landlords market.

    True but that does not mean that it is the best course of action.
    I would consider other types of electrical heating long before storage heating.


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    #11
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,407 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    2011 wrote: »
    True but that does not mean that it is the best course of action.
    I would consider other types of electrical heating long before storage heating.

    What would you consider instead?


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    #12
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    With a dual meter, storage heating would be acceptable in most apartments. It’s a landlords market.

    Unless you are home all day storage heating is useless and with our inaccurate weather forecasts you will either be too hot all cold during the day if you are home.


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    #13
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,407 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    I’m up to speed with how they work. The newer ones are a lot better.
    Panel heaters in the bedrooms would be acceptable too.


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    #14
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    What would you consider instead?

    In terms of electric heating my personal favourite is oil filled radiators. These provide a heat that is similar to "real" radiators (the type that are fed from a conventional boiler). I would add a smart controller to these that would allow me to set timers, schedules, add temperature set points and control all of this from my phone.

    Storage heaters take longer to heat up, release heat at an uncontrolled rate and produce a very dry heat. They present a greater fire risk when covered with clothing. These heaters also take up a lot more space. I also find that they always seem to result in too much heat during the night and morning, not enough heat in the evening and very large electricity bills.


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    #15
    ercork
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭ercork


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    What would you consider instead?

    If electricity is your only option then you should have a look at an air to air heat pump. Far cheaper to run than electric heaters or storage heaters.


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    #16
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    ercork wrote: »
    If electricity is your only option then you should have a look at an air to air heat pump. Far cheaper to run than electric heaters or storage heaters.

    Sometimes.
    There is quite a lot to consider with heat pumps when retrofitting. Without the required minimum BER rating (generally accepted to be at least A3) they will not perform.

    It is much new straight forward with new builds.


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    #17
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,776 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    2011 wrote: »
    Sometimes.
    There is quite a lot to consider with heat pumps when retrofitting. Without the required minimum BER rating (generally accepted to be at least A3) they will not perform.

    It is much new straight forward with new builds.

    If it is a big enough air to air unit it will, surely? A 3kw unit will put out a fair bit of heat in the main living area if it runs for a few hours. It’s only a 2-bed flat. The occupants could still supplement it with conventional electric heaters in the bedrooms on the coldest days.


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    #18
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    I'm swapping out the storage heaters in a 3 bed semi, it's going to be used as a holiday home, looked at a few options, probably going to put in an order for some Sun Ray RF range of Thermal Electric Radiators tomorrow.
    They'll give me app control of all rooms for rental times and when were using it ourselves.
    If someone has a better idea I'm open to suggestions.


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    #19
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    oldsmokey wrote: »
    Hi, we,re in the throes of renovating a property with a view to eventual renying. We,re trying to minimise cost, therefore not have a boiler system fitted, its a 2 bedroom flat....has anyone here experience of elec heaters in this situation? Any other options? Thanks..we,ll fit elec showrrs and undersink water heater...

    https://www.smartelectrics.ie/economical-radiators-buy-online/

    Recommend the electric radiators supplied by this company. Have installed them in rentals. You can control them from mobile app. Very efficient. Tenants like them no complaints.

    The traditional looking ones is what I've used. Can't comment on the panel ones which are cheaper.


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    #20
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    shenanagans wrote: »
    https://www.smartelectrics.ie/economical-radiators-buy-online/

    Recommend the electric radiators supplied by this company. Have installed them in rentals. You can control them from mobile app. Very efficient. Tenants like them no complaints.

    They are extremely expensive. App controlled electric heaters can be purchased for far less. All electric heaters have the same efficiency.


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    #21
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    2011 wrote: »
    They are extremely expensive. App controlled electric heaters can be purchased for far less. All electric heaters have the same efficiency.

    How can they all be just as efficient, the sunway I’m looking at have oil that’s heated.
    What app controlled heaters would you recommend?


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    #22
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    2011 wrote: »
    They are extremely expensive. App controlled electric heaters can be purchased for far less. All electric heaters have the same efficiency.

    Tax deductible for landlord.....the person is renting the apartment.


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    #23
    ercork
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭ercork


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I'm swapping out the storage heaters in a 3 bed semi, it's going to be used as a holiday home, looked at a few options, probably going to put in an order for some Sun Ray RF range of Thermal Electric Radiators tomorrow.
    They'll give me app control of all rooms for rental times and when were using it ourselves.
    If someone has a better idea I'm open to suggestions.


    An air to air heat pump might be a good option for you also. Depending on the internal layout of your house you might get away with one single unit installed downstairs. If the layout isn't open plan you may need multiple units which would increase the installation cost but would still be a good option.


    Heat pumps cost about a third or a quarter to run compared to ALL direct electric heaters - oil filled, ceramic, fan heaters, whichever.


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    #24
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    ercork wrote: »
    An air to air heat pump might be a good option for you also. Depending on the internal layout of your house you might get away with one single unit installed downstairs. If the layout isn't open plan you may need multiple units which would increase the installation cost but would still be a good option

    It's standard enough, walk in the front door and there's a door to either side one going to kitchen the other to living room, there's hardly a hall it's pretty much straight up the stairs then.
    No big landing just 3 bedrooms one with an ensuite and a bathroom.
    The kitchen and living room run parallel there's no door between them at the other end of the rooms. After that there's just a utility room behind the kitchen where the back door is.
    Current set up is, storage heater in hall (it's not a hall but I'd say it's for heating the stairs), living room and kitchen, 3 small storage heaters in each bedroom and 2 electric wall mounted fan heaters in the bathroom and ensuite.
    I've to measure it up properly today for new flooring.

    I can't see the cost of these air to air pumps anywhere but can see how it could work, it would free up wall space as well which would be a big plus in a small house.


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    #25
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    How can they all be just as efficient

    All electric resistance heating is 100% energy efficient.

    the sunway I’m looking at have oil that’s heated.

    That is still an electric heater.
    What app controlled heaters would you recommend?

    I would recommend connecting a Sonoff TH16 to the electric heater that I select. These units cost around €15 to €20 each and integrate with Google Home and Alexa. These app controlled devices allow you to set up schedules, times, boost functions, measure temperature & humidity as well as having geo fencing capability. By doing this I would create an app controlled heater at a fraction of the cost.

    I would be disappointed if this was not at least 75% less cost than the above "smart" heaters.


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    #26
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Where does that sensor go I could hardly stick it on the wall like that the Mrs would have a meltdown, I presume each rad needs one so for the smart bit of the set up your about the same price as the sun ray wireless gateway.
    What rads are you recommending?


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    #27
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Where does that sensor go I could hardly stick it on the wall like that the Mrs would have a meltdown

    The sensor is optional. The Sonoff will work without it. Electric heaters all come with internal stats anyway. My preference is to mount the temperature sensor somewhere discreet within the room at a location that will provide a good reference temperature (just like any room stat). I hid mine on a shelf. Extension cables for stats are available too.
    I presume each rad needs one so for the smart bit of the set up your about the same price as the sun ray wireless gateway.

    No gateway required, all that is needed is WiFi. One Sonoff per heater is what I would prefer. Alternatively there is a 4 channel DIN rail mounted version that can be installed in the CU.
    A temperature sensor per room (not per heater) is the best in my opinion.
    What rads are you recommending?

    I would consider oil filled rads by well known makes like Dimplex. There is not much to an electric heater that is why they are generally so cheap. The main component is a heating element. The Smart heaters above are a rip off in my opinion.

    Google is your friend :)


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    #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I've wondered about fitting something like this to give my sitting room a boost as its the last room to heat up.
    With the added benefit of AC for the one day of summer.

    https://www.buyitdirect.ie/p/12000-btu-smart-a-easy-fit-dc-inverter-wall-split-air-conditioner-with-5-meters-pipe-kit-and-5-years-warranty-iqool12

    Thats just the first unit that came up in google.


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    #29
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    BrownFinger wrote: »
    I've wondered about fitting something like this to give my sitting room a boost as its the last room to heat up.
    With the added benefit of AC for the one day of summer.

    https://www.buyitdirect.ie/p/12000-btu-smart-a-easy-fit-dc-inverter-wall-split-air-conditioner-with-5-meters-pipe-kit-and-5-years-warranty-iqool12

    Thats just the first unit that came up in google.

    That is just a type of air source heat pump.

    See text from link:

    “The iQool’s heating is by heat pump and nearly 4 times cheaper than electrical heating and half the price of energy bills for central heating – saves you money and keeps you even warmer!“


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    #30
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Im not seeing much price difference by the time everything is wired.
    The dumb rads seem to be in the 200/300 bracket.


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    #31
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    2011 wrote: »
    That is just a type of air source heat pump.

    What's wrong with a air to air heat pump? You could ceiling mount the conditioners and free up wall space. I'd be very concerned how much it would cost to run.


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