The Strike is over. What happens now?

wrangler · 15-01-2020 8:07pm

MIKEKC wrote: »

I note that you use the word moment. Down through the years they have been far from the cheapest

for some reason our insurance never went up, there seemed no reason for increases that some people suffered, we'd price around every three /four years.
We also get a very good group discount,

Water John · 15-01-2020 8:25pm

Not sure if Irish farmers own FBD anymore since it had to do a bail out deal a few years ago. As Laurel said to Hardy, 'another fine mess...'
A Board of many IFA luminaries, asleep at the watch.

wrangler · 15-01-2020 8:32pm

Water John wrote: »

Not sure if Irish farmers own FBD anymore since it had to do a bail out deal a few years ago. As Laurel said to Hardy, 'another fine mess...'
A Board of many IFA luminaries, asleep at the watch.

Plenty of farmers running poor businesses at home too, they're in a poor position to criticise businesses (IFJ, FBD, and even ABP) that are doing alright.
Pots and Kettles come to mind

Water John · 15-01-2020 8:35pm

I won't comment on that post Wrangler. It stands for itself.

alps · 15-01-2020 11:35pm

Water John wrote: »

Not sure if Irish farmers own FBD anymore since it had to do a bail out deal a few years ago. As Laurel said to Hardy, 'another fine mess...'
A Board of many IFA luminaries, asleep at the watch.

Number of IFA luminaries as you call them, has not changed. They've paid a serious dividend this year...

wrangler · 15-01-2020 11:53pm

Jjameson wrote: »

A master of antagonism. But as he’d say himself. SAD.

Irish farmers seem to see successful businesses with unhealthy envy,sad way to be, Every business makes mistakes, They weren't the only insurance in trouble during the recession, plenty farmers threw money away in the recession too I think FBD are back in control of their own business now, I'm sure someone will be along to correct me if I'm wrong,I wouldn't mind being as well off as those I know working in FBD.
Plenty farmers have done well out of FBD and are doing well :cool:

ruwithme · 16-01-2020 12:51am

If anyone learns when blockades to return to factory gates maybe they might post it up asap.

Panch18 · 16-01-2020 9:04am

ruwithme wrote: »

If anyone learns when blockades to return to factory gates maybe they might post it up asap.

There won't be any blockades for a while - and if there are it won't stop people sending cattle this time. So it will be a protest and not a blockade

Fellas have realised they were stupid to observe the blockade last time - they won't make the same mistake this time

Jjameson · 16-01-2020 9:26am

Panch18 wrote: »

There won't be any blockades for a while - and if there are it won't stop people sending cattle this time. So it will be a protest and not a blockade

Fellas have realised they were stupid to observe the blockade last time - they won't make the same mistake this time

Let me know when your herd is on the way so I get a chance to step out of the way! How many are coming this year?

Panch18 · 16-01-2020 9:33am

Jjameson wrote: »

Let me know when your herd is on the way so I get a chance to step out of the way! How many are coming this year?

this isn't the first time that you have referenced number of cattle and/or number of cows that i may or may not have

Do you have a problem with farmers that have over a certain amount of cattle or cows? What is this magic number?

Because it certainly comes across that you have a problem with anything above a certain number

Jjameson · 16-01-2020 10:03am

Panch18 wrote: »

this isn't the first time that you have referenced number of cattle and/or number of cows that i may or may not have

Do you have a problem with farmers that have over a certain amount of cattle or cows? What is this magic number?

Because it certainly comes across that you have a problem with anything above a certain number

None whatsoever. But I remember the man 180 fit cattle the one week. The most aggrieved poster during strike next to the retired sheep farmer. You also milk a moderate dairy herd then you said? And occasionally rear some of your calves to sell as stores but your beef enterprise is bought stores to beef? Well in excess of 180 animals? And 3.45 a kg base was fine. Left as much money as any year in the last 5 and you’d have taken a lot less to have been able to sell in the one week.
And this year you intend to pass any picket?

Robson99 · 16-01-2020 10:11am

Panch18 wrote: »

There won't be any blockades for a while - and if there are it won't stop people sending cattle this time. So it will be a protest and not a blockade

Fellas have realised they were stupid to observe the blockade last time - they won't make the same mistake this time

Why were fellas stupid ???

Panch18 · 16-01-2020 10:46am

Jjameson wrote: »

None whatsoever. But I remember the man 180 fit cattle the one week. The most aggrieved poster during strike next to the retired sheep farmer. You also milk a moderate dairy herd then you said? And occasionally rear some of your calves to sell as stores but your beef enterprise is bought stores to beef? Well in excess of 180 animals? And 3.45 a kg base was fine. Left as much money as any year in the last 5 and you’d have taken a lot less to have been able to sell in the one week.
And this year you intend to pass any picket?

What i'm saying is that many people will pass the picket. Certainly in the marts that i attend that is the general feeling among fellas that i speak to.

Also i would say the general support, many dairy farmers for example, won't have the same support for any action in the next time around, if there is a next time.

Fellas shipped in from other counties to stop local farmers killing cattle is not on, and that's what was happening in the local factory. Very few, if any locals, doing the protesting, and then loads of farmers with stock to kill and not able to do so. They won't be so quite next time

Panch18 · 16-01-2020 10:57am

Robson99 wrote: »

Why were fellas stupid ???

Because they incurred significant pressures, costs and losses by observing a blockade which they didn't support themselves, was placed upon them by fellas they didn't know (fellas shipped in to do the protest) and ultimately it was a waste of everybodies time as the gains made were minimal, especially when compared to the costs to farmers

There were a lot of farmers, some killing a lot of cattle, in our area who were 100% against the strikes, don't for 1 second under estimate how angry these guys are with Beef Plan and the whole blockade fiasco

Jjameson · 16-01-2020 11:01am

Panch18 wrote: »

What i'm saying is that many people will pass the picket. Certainly in the marts that i attend that is the general feeling among fellas that i speak to.

Also i would say the general support, many dairy farmers for example, won't have the same support for any action in the next time around, if there is a next time.

Fellas shipped in from other counties to stop local farmers killing cattle is not on, and that's what was happening in the local factory. Very few, if any locals, doing the protesting, and then loads of farmers with stock to kill and not able to do so. They won't be so quite next time

So will you pass it? And are you one of the guys who regret not respecting the picket and wish they’d drove over farmers. There was 20 even 30cent bonus. Will you go for it next time?

Guys are afraid to picket the plant they deal with and their fears were justified in cases. Though one character near here who kills a sizeable amount (more than my magic number

) of cattle was approached recently for stock by an agent for a factory that put an injunction on him.

memorystick · 16-01-2020 11:03am

Panch18 wrote: »

There were a lot of farmers, some killing a lot of cattle, in our area who were 100% against the strikes, don't for 1 second under estimate how angry these guys are with Beef Plan and the whole blockade fiasco

Larry’s little bitchés.

16-01-2020 11:08am

Blockading the factories would be a godsend for the factories at this stage .

Panch18 · 16-01-2020 11:17am

Jjameson wrote: »

So will you pass it? And are you one of the guys who regret not respecting the picket and wish they’d drove over farmers. There was 20 even 30cent bonus. Will you go for it next time?

Guys are afraid to picket the plant they deal with and their fears were justified in cases. Though one character near here who kills a sizeable amount (more than my magic number ) of cattle was approached recently for stock by an agent for a factory that put an injunction on him.

How many cattle a year are you killing?
What is your system?
How much did the strike cost you?
Do you think the strike was worth doing considering the disruption and cost it caused a large number of farmers?
Do you think it's right to stop a man getting his cattle killed when you aren't killing cattle yourself?

wrangler · 16-01-2020 11:35am

Jjameson wrote: »

None whatsoever. But I remember the man 180 fit cattle the one week. The most aggrieved poster during strike next to the retired sheep farmer. You also milk a moderate dairy herd then you said? And occasionally rear some of your calves to sell as stores but your beef enterprise is bought stores to beef? Well in excess of 180 animals? And 3.45 a kg base was fine. Left as much money as any year in the last 5 and you’d have taken a lot less to have been able to sell in the one week.
And this year you intend to pass any picket?

Whether I'm retired or not, it's important to my tax free income that my tenants beef enterprise isn't f...ed up again

Jjameson · 16-01-2020 11:39am

Panch18 wrote: »

How many cattle a year are you killing?
What is your system?
How much did the strike cost you?
Do you think the strike was worth doing considering the disruption and cost it caused a large number of farmers?
Do you think it's right to stop a man getting his cattle killed when you aren't killing cattle yourself?

A read back through my posts on this thread outline my position on it. Mistakes were made. I’m no fan of the politics of the splinter groups. The base of 3.45 is what cost me and there was no corresponding cheap stores to replace cattle with. So I have most of my grass cattle going now out of the shed after 90 days feeding. and no regrets. Generally finish 70 or so off grass and then a few bought to finish out of shed and wintered with next years stores. My crux is with the cartel not the decant people who got off their holes to do something about it. The independent plants were not protested here and I can prove my opposition for doing so.

bogman_bass · 16-01-2020 11:41am

memorystick wrote: »

Larry’s little bitchés.

This isn’t Facebook lad. We have a higher level of debate here.

Jjameson · 16-01-2020 11:48am

bogman_bass wrote: »

This isn’t Facebook lad. We have a higher level of debate here.

I concur with the sentiment regardless of the profanity

memorystick · 16-01-2020 12:11pm

bogman_bass wrote: »

This isn’t Facebook lad. We have a higher level of debate here.

A higher level

Sheep breeder · 16-01-2020 1:20pm

Panch18 wrote: »

What i'm saying is that many people will pass the picket. Certainly in the marts that i attend that is the general feeling among fellas that i speak to.

Also i would say the general support, many dairy farmers for example, won't have the same support for any action in the next time around, if there is a next time.

Fellas shipped in from other counties to stop local farmers killing cattle is not on, and that's what was happening in the local factory. Very few, if any locals, doing the protesting, and then loads of farmers with stock to kill and not able to do so. They won't be so quite next time

Can you not answer the question about the 180 fit cattle and how the protesters effected you, if you are in the marts at present the only talk is about the calf trade in the next 3 months and where that’s going to leave the dairy man and the store cattle trade and nothing about going through blockades. One young lad drove a cattle truck into a factory in the southeast and he’s not getting a good reception and still talked about.

Panch18 · 16-01-2020 1:31pm

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Can you not answer the question about the 180 fit cattle and how the protesters effected you, if you are in the marts at present the only talk is about the calf trade in the next 3 months and where that’s going to leave the dairy man and the store cattle trade and nothing about going through blockades. One young lad drove a cattle truck into a factory in the southeast and he’s not getting a good reception and still talked about.

What question about 180 fit cattle??

Are you trying to say that people in marts aren't discussing the antics of the beef plan?? I don't know what you are trying to say

Gods Gift · 16-01-2020 1:34pm

We can’t all lease to or become dairy farmers.
Uncle was afairly big tillage man but now just works his own and some rented land.
At a meeting 1 nite whilst grilling the top table about malting barley contracts he was told to go into dairying. He’s in his 70s.
He said tillage is all he knows.
He’s wasn’t clever enough to be a beef farmer, and not mean or greedy enough to be a dairy farmer.

Remember the field around here in the summer golden barley, beet and we had linseed for set aside and oilseed rape. Gold , blue green and yellow the country side was. Now nearly all green.

Jjameson · 16-01-2020 1:45pm

I was asking about your farming system, how many cattle you finish overall/system to have 180 fit at one time? To what extent or is your dairy herd subsidising via saved tax or something it? How many cows roughly?or how 3.45€ a kg or even less can have your cattle leaving any kind of margin? And why do you rear calves and sell as stores when you buy stores? Asked a few times and all you done was deflect.

Panch18 · 16-01-2020 2:22pm

Jjameson wrote: »

I was asking about your farming system, how many cattle you finish overall/system to have 180 fit at one time? To what extent or is your dairy herd subsidising via saved tax or something it? How many cows roughly?or how 3.45€ a kg or even less can have your cattle leaving any kind of margin? And why do you rear calves and sell as stores when you buy stores? Asked a few times and all you done was deflect.

Well i already answered most or all of those questions before on the protest thread, so not sure why i have to go through it all again or how its even relevant to anything being discussed. but anyway

Firstly i don't think its unusual to have the majority of your cattle getting fit to kill around the same time, particularly when that time is end of summer and autumn. But anyway. For the last couple of years its been summer grazing for a number of reasons, the main 1 being health, and not the animals health. Prior to that we bought young cattle in the spring and killed them 18 months later. Our number of finished cattle the last couple of years is obviously up as no silage or small cattle on board.

Can't answer the dairy subsidising the cattle question regarding tax etc, only to say like i said previously, no real change in margin over the last few years from the cattle enterprise - unlike the dairy i might add which is like a yo-yo

As i said before the dairy herd isn't what you'd call a big herd nowadays, not by a long shot, but a little bigger than the national average. the exact size is irrelevant, and i have posted it on here before if people really want to find out!!

On the margin at 3.45 - we operate a low cost system, minimal fertiliser and small amounts of meal, we keep top quality grass ahead of them (without going overboard on it) and we are on good cattle land. Fixed costs would be low. But the main thing contributing to keeping the costs down is to be smart around the ring, we defo don't go overboard when buying in the cattle

On the calves, we only rear the last few calved, the majority are sold. So between replacement heifers and the few bulls we keep approx 1 third of calves born, give or take

On the rearing calves and buying stores - we are never buying and selling stores at the same time - we sell the calves as stores in Autumn and we are buying stores in the spring. When we were buying light stores and keeping for 18 months we regularly kept our own calves to kill although not always, but with no beef wintered the last couple years we are getting rid of them in Autumn

On beef enterprises and profitablity we feel that:

1) summer grazing is by far the easiest, returns are usually ok
2) buying in spring and killing 18 months later is our favourite system and will probably go back to that again
3) if its profit you want then calf to 18 months is the best system, by a decent amount as well imo
4) we have never done high intensity finishing, bull beef, winter finishing or any of the other current day popular trends promoted by Teagasc - so points 1 to 3 are only relevant to our experience

Now does that answer your questions??

16-01-2020 2:40pm

Gods Gift wrote: »

We can’t all lease to or become dairy farmers.
Uncle was afairly big tillage man but now just works his own and some rented land.
At a meeting 1 nite whilst grilling the top table about malting barley contracts he was told to go into dairying. He’s in his 70s.
He said tillage is all he knows.
He’s wasn’t clever enough to be a beef farmer, and not mean or greedy enough to be a dairy farmer.

Remember the field around here in the summer golden barley, beet and we had linseed for set aside and oilseed rape. Gold , blue green and yellow the country side was. Now nearly all green.

The meanest , most greedy farmers I know are the two tillage farmers in my area

Jjameson · 16-01-2020 2:55pm

Panch18 wrote: »

Well i already answered most or all of those questions before on the protest thread, so not sure why i have to go through it all again or how its even relevant to anything being discussed. but anyway

Firstly i don't think its unusual to have the majority of your cattle getting fit to kill around the same time, particularly when that time is end of summer and autumn. But anyway. For the last couple of years its been summer grazing for a number of reasons, the main 1 being health, and not the animals health. Prior to that we bought young cattle in the spring and killed them 18 months later. Our number of finished cattle the last couple of years is obviously up as no silage or small cattle on board.

Can't answer the dairy subsidising the cattle question regarding tax etc, only to say like i said previously, no real change in margin over the last few years from the cattle enterprise - unlike the dairy i might add which is like a yo-yo

As i said before the dairy herd isn't what you'd call a big herd nowadays, not by a long shot, but a little bigger than the national average. the exact size is irrelevant, and i have posted it on here before if people really want to find out!!

On the margin at 3.45 - we operate a low cost system, minimal fertiliser and small amounts of meal, we keep top quality grass ahead of them (without going overboard on it) and we are on good cattle land. Fixed costs would be low. But the main thing contributing to keeping the costs down is to be smart around the ring, we defo don't go overboard when buying in the cattle

On the calves, we only rear the last few calved, the majority are sold. So between replacement heifers and the few bulls we keep approx 1 third of calves born, give or take

On the rearing calves and buying stores - we are never buying and selling stores at the same time - we sell the calves as stores in Autumn and we are buying stores in the spring. When we were buying light stores and keeping for 18 months we regularly kept our own calves to kill although not always, but with no beef wintered the last couple years we are getting rid of them in Autumn

On beef enterprises and profitablity we feel that:

1) summer grazing is by far the easiest, returns are usually ok
2) buying in spring and killing 18 months later is our favourite system and will probably go back to that again
3) if its profit you want then calf to 18 months is the best system, by a decent amount as well imo
4) we have never done high intensity finishing, bull beef, winter finishing or any of the other current day popular trends promoted by Teagasc - so points 1 to 3 are only relevant to our experience

Now does that answer your questions??

It does and it clarifies why the strike was a problem to you in practical terms to a point. Essentially grass fed beef steer beef @€;3.45 a kg base is ridiculous whether you perceive You’d a turn out of it or not.

However the prolonged nature of it was a problem for me too. Young kids , farming work building up, some other more serious problems and the point is that if we stood down there was definitely no hope of getting anything out of it. It went on weeks longer than it should because it wasn’t a full blockade from the start.
2 weeks of stopping cattle didn’t apply pressure to anyone only farmers and the farmers on the line. One day of stopping the fridges and the factory management were tearing their hair out.

I wouldn’t go back again if it’s not a widely supported full blockade.

The Strike is over. What happens now?

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