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“Love the work, hate that I have clients”

  • 01-01-2020 01:31PM
    #1
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭


    I was topping up my CPD and was at a STEP event where there was a mix of accountants and solicitors. There’s been a general conversation in the accountancy profession for the last couple of years about the type of work and always on instant response expectations from clients and a perceived “low value” €50 per month client/service. This discussion is well known among accountants but I didn’t realise that apparently the same is happening in the legal profession Which came up at the CPD event and as one solicitor in practice aside “I love the work but hate that I have clients”.

    Is it fair to say in the legal profession that there is a perceived race to the bottom or a type of commoditisation of the profession similar to what accountants say they are experiencing?


Comments

  • #2
    randomrb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 351 ✭✭randomrb


    People want things to be cheaper and faster constantly and (I realise the irony of posting this here...) people come to you to confirm what they think they should do after minimal internet research and don't agree when you tell them there is no easy solution.


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Micah Howling Moose wrote: »
    Is it fair to say in the legal profession that there is a perceived race to the bottom or a type of commoditisation of the profession similar to what accountants say they are experiencing?

    Yes, but it has been going on for years with the Law Soc pretty ineffective against it. Good work takes time to do but there's an increasing culture of low margin, high volume work across the industry, ime.


  • #4
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    It could be possible to get an instant response type relationship but you would need to engage experienced solicitors who are adequately knowledgeable to be able to respond quickly. However, prepare to pay for it.


  • #5
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    It could be possible to get an instant response type relationship but you would need to engage experienced solicitors who are adequately knowledgeable to be able to respond quickly. However, prepare to pay for it.

    But the expectation from consumers is the opposite. People are getting more used to fast reply, low fee type subscription services.


  • #6
    randomrb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 351 ✭✭randomrb


    Micah Howling Moose wrote: »
    But the expectation from consumers is the opposite. People are getting more used to fast reply, low fee type subscription services.

    The problem with law is that there are very few standard transactions. Each situation has its own unique elements and there are usually facts that the client thinks is unimportant that can be essential.

    Even if you take 2 houses being sold in a housing estate that is only 20 years old. The difference between the two transactions can be huge from planning to disputes to whether there are any debts on the property.

    This all means that you can't have a simple "Selling your House" package that you can get online. and its the same for lots of other areas.

    Even the one area that is done in presets ie Wills shouldn't be. There are so many considerations when making a will that it is nearly always worth getting a solicitor to do it.


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  • #7
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 18,832 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    I saw a quote from briefing papers to the new Governor of the Central Bank published after a meeja FOI request saying, "there is a waning deference towards expert knowledge". I think it sums up a growing issue with society in general, anti-intellectualism and the rise of the Karen.

    5 minutes on google and you know more than the person who thinks they can charge €500 an hour for giving like just an opinion, man.

    People are also increasingly unwilling to pay for "intangible" services or products like professional advice.

    Anyway, I suppose from a market perspective, it may not be a totally bad thing. If only very smart people (who ironically probably already know the broad nature of the advice they will get) are the only ones willing to pay top money for advice, as they see the need to cover their own asses, then the top professional advisors have to keep right up to speed to be able to advise properly without getting caught out.

    At the other end, there is a race to the bottom at the moment, for sure. The market has to adjust to the decreasing demand and there is undoubtedly an oversupply of professionals almost across the board, possibly excepting medicine, but that's still competing with google. Either find a niche, bone up on that area and get the premium work (much easier to say than do), or lower your prices.

    There's very little money in traditional professional work these days unless you are at the very top tier.


  • #8
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    I saw a quote from briefing papers to the new Governor of the Central Bank published after a meeja FOI request saying, "there is a waning deference towards expert knowledge". I think it sums up a growing issue with society in general, anti-intellectualism and the rise of the Karen.

    5 minutes on google and you know more than the person who thinks they can charge €500 an hour for giving like just an opinion, man.

    People are also increasingly unwilling to pay for "intangible" services or products like professional advice.

    Anyway, I suppose from a market perspective, it may not be a totally bad thing. If only very smart people (who ironically probably already know the broad nature of the advice they will get) are the only ones willing to pay top money for advice, as they see the need to cover their own asses, then the top professional advisors have to keep right up to speed to be able to advise properly without getting caught out.

    At the other end, there is a race to the bottom at the moment, for sure. The market has to adjust to the decreasing demand and there is undoubtedly an oversupply of professionals almost across the board, possibly excepting medicine, but that's still competing with google. Either find a niche, bone up on that area and get the premium work (much easier to say than do), or lower your prices.

    There's very little money in traditional professional work these days unless you are at the very top tier.

    Everything you said here is true only that IMO I think the accountancy profession is a few years further down the rabbit hole than the legal profession. To put it in perspective, there are accountancy "firms" whose monthly fees are less than most peoples monthly mobile phone bills. That fee includes all the tax and CRO compliance for €900 per including unlimited support.
    Also, there are audit only services advertised where the cost of the audit is less than the circuit court procedure for availing of the audit exemption!!!

    A major issue for the accountancy profession is that the term "Accountant" is not protected so anybody can call themselves an Accountant and in general the public doesn't know the difference. So qualified regulated firms are competing with non qualified franchises and one man bands who have no requirement to hold PI insurance, maintain CPD, institute inspections, regulation and disciplinary procedures.


  • #9
    Stratvs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Stratvs


    Micah Howling Moose wrote: »
    A major issue for the accountancy profession is that the term "Accountant" is not protected so anybody can call themselves an Accountant and in general the public doesn't know the difference. So qualified regulated firms are competing with non qualified franchises and one man bands who have no requirement to hold PI insurance, maintain CPD, institute inspections, regulation and disciplinary procedures.

    True, as thrashed out in this thread recently but which situation is not likely to change anytime soon.

    In the meantime, I'll attend my CPD pay my membership subs and PI and charge a rate which makes sense to me for the quality of the work done. You can have it cheap or you can have it right. You can't have both.


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