Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20

beno619 · 27-11-2019 06:30PM

FitzShane wrote: »

Well from what I can gather is Mourinho wanted 2 signings and the recruitment department said no to them 2 signings. Woodward then delivered than no to Mourinho . Call it the middleman if you wish. But I doubt that Mourinho wanted those 2 players, and the recruitment department said 'yeah we are fine with those', and then Woodward turned around and decided that he didn't like them so said no, and made up this story.

Mourinho said on sky sports he was happy/accepted the "recruitment departments" the CB pick (Maguire) as he was better than what we already had.

Woodward failed to deliver.

0gac3yjefb5sv7 · 27-11-2019 06:37PM

Maybe it's impossible to get the Glaziers out but surely it's possible to get Woodward chucked out?

Can fans sneak banners into the stadium or is the not possible anymore.

Your Airbag · 27-11-2019 06:51PM

StringerBell wrote: »

A lot of clear out....Lukaku? Who else was sold? Darmian finally got left out of the basement too didn't he?

You can't think of any other player besides Lukaku and Darmian? How about Fellaini, Smalling, Valenica, Herrera and Sanchez. So thats 7 in total with others being relegated to as few starts as necessary like Jones. Are we pretending this didn't happen now, is that the narrative were going with?

Lord TSC · 27-11-2019 07:17PM

A testimonial for Phil Jones will not be happening. When he signed a new contract in February, it was part of the deal, but he was against it due his decreasing popularity. He is self-deprecating about it and says only his mum and dad would attend [The Athletic]

Manchester United halt search for new left back after emergence of Brandon Williams [The Times]

BDI · 27-11-2019 07:20PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

A testimonial for Phil Jones will not be happening. When he signed a new contract in February, it was part of the deal, but he was against it due his decreasing popularity. He is self-deprecating about it and says only his mum and dad would attend [The Athletic]

Manchester United halt search for new left back after emergence of Brandon Williams [The Times]

The emergence of Brandon Williams. A handful of games where Fred or Phil Jones have had him covered.

xtal191 · 27-11-2019 07:22PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

You can't think of any other player besides Lukaku and Darmian? How about Fellaini, Smalling, Valenica, Herrera and Sanchez. So thats 7 in total with others being relegated to as few starts as necessary like Jones. Are we pretending this didn't happen now, is that the narrative were going with?

Valencia and Herrera were leaving no matter who was in charge, plus he supposedly wanted Herrera to stay. Smalling and Sanchez haven't been sold yet. Lets not forget Jones, Young and Perriera were all given new contracts and not one of them should be at the club.

Lukaku, Darmian and Fellaini are the only ones who were sold unless I'm forgetting someone.

Ordinary man · 27-11-2019 07:24PM

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://www.football365.com/news/woodward-confirms-he-overruled-two-mourinho-transfers

Woodward confirms he said no to Jose on a couple of transfers.

We don't know which players they were. Wasn't there a lot of rumours that jose wanted perisic and boateng, 2 players that have gone downhill as fast as matic. That would have been some waste of money.

0gac3yjefb5sv7 · 27-11-2019 07:27PM

BDI wrote: »

The emergence of Brandon Williams. A handful of games where Fred or Phil Jones have had him covered.

Testimonial? He isn't even retiring...

Lord TSC · 27-11-2019 07:35PM

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Testimonial? He isn't even retiring...

Testimonials aren't for retirements. It's for 10 years at a club, traditionally. More recently, some of our players have delayed it till right as they were leaving, but it's 10 years is the trigger, iirc.

BDI · 27-11-2019 07:36PM

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Testimonial? He isn't even retiring...

It’s ten years service that gets you one as far as I remember. 9 and a half years injured, five months pulling faces, slipping, diving on the ground, heading the ball while on all fours and a month being part England’s future centre half pairing for the next ten years.

Drumpot · 27-11-2019 07:54PM

FitzShane wrote: »

Well from what I can gather is Mourinho wanted 2 signings and the recruitment department said no to them 2 signings. Woodward then delivered than no to Mourinho . Call it the middleman if you wish. But I doubt that Mourinho wanted those 2 players, and the recruitment department said 'yeah we are fine with those', and then Woodward turned around and decided that he didn't like them so said no, and made up this story.

The deeper question is who makes up that recruitment department. That's where the anger should be directed at (or perhaps praise depending on the player that was being targeted! :pac:) Is this the multitude of scouts that have been hired under various managers? Or is it made up of more club level people like Nicky Butt and others, including the scouts? From what I can gather, Nicky Butt is a liaison and seen as a link for players to move from youth to first team so he could have a seat at this table. Who is the head scout. Was it his call to decide on the 2 players, or a combination of him and others. Did Giggs really recommend Daniel James or is that just another made up story to stop praise being given to the current recruitment department?

What I will say is that Woodward can and should be blamed for not putting a DOF in place, and stopping this confusion. There is a lack of clarity on the whole recruitment situation. And clear out the 'deadwood' of scouts from old regimes. I'm sure the scouts of LVG, Moyes & Mourinho would all target different types of players. Have a clear vision and identity.

But to play devil's advocate here, if the DOF and lets just pick Edwin Van Der Sar for arguments sake, had said no to signing the 2 players that Mourinho wanted, would it get the same reaction as the recruitment department and Woodward saying no? I don't think he would myself.

So you think Jose wanted 2 signings and the recruitment department said no to any players? So Uniteds recruitment department felt that the team was good enough last season to make a challange for the title? Or they said no to 2 specific players but no others were offered or considered?

And a deeper question is what instructions are given to the recruitment department in terms of preferred signings etc. What criteria is given to them? Character, age, marketability, resale value etc.

But the lack of clarity and the miserable state the club seems to be in when every manager leaves, means nobody should have any trust in anything Woodward says. Why does the team have to rebuild every 2-3 years? Who is deciding thus? Why does no other club in the world need these rebuilds so frequently? Who decides on the squad balance or the areas of the squad that needs strengthening?

People keep saying “Jose’s signings” , “Oles signings” etc but we have absolutely no idea what sort of input mangers get into transfers. Woodward loves to be seen parading big names but when it goes wrong he’s Given a pass cause it was “the managers signing”.

If United were being run like pool we would be matching or doing better then them as we can spend more. So the logical conclusion is that they have never had a functioning transfer plan where the manager, the club and what the first team needs match up.

bucketybuck · 27-11-2019 08:28PM

FitzShane wrote: »

But to play devil's advocate here, if the DOF and lets just pick Edwin Van Der Sar for arguments sake, had said no to signing the 2 players that Mourinho wanted, would it get the same reaction as the recruitment department and Woodward saying no? I don't think he would myself.

Of course the reaction would be different. The question has always been, "Who made these decisions?", and "Were they qualified to make these decisions?".

If we knew it was Van Der Saar then we have an answer to both and can react accordingly. But instead we still don't know who it was, it was either Woodward (completely unqualified) or this nebulous "recruitment department" (completely unspecified), either way we still don't know.

Well, we do know, just not officially.

Your Airbag · 27-11-2019 08:44PM

xtal191 wrote: »

Valencia and Herrera were leaving no matter who was in charge, plus he supposedly wanted Herrera to stay. Smalling and Sanchez haven't been sold yet. Lets not forget Jones, Young and Perriera were all given new contracts and not one of them should be at the club.

Lukaku, Darmian and Fellaini are the only ones who were sold unless I'm forgetting someone.

I didn't use the word sold, I said clear out. Smalling and Sanchez will be offered to the clubs come end of season, thinking otherwise is just begrudging. You don't loan out senior players you think have a future in the team.

Rayne Wooney · 27-11-2019 09:24PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

You'd have to seriously skewed to make yourself actually believe this. They fired him because they saw he had no idea to get the club back on top.

Nobody will argue that Woodward refusing to sign Maguire was not ideal but up until that point Jose had it his way. Fred, Matic, Lukaku etc and his other signings, 400m worth and we played terrible football. Maguire is not exactly a revelation now is he, the idea that he was going to be the difference is just not true. Plus the board backed Jose with two CBs before then who looked terrible under him. They rightly questioned his judgement and his antis became more childish to the point that he made the job unbearable.

Two games into his Spurs tenure and people are pointing to minute things to claim Jose was restricted at Utd. Absolutely comical.

He hooked a defender early on in a game? So what, Woodward controls the subs now? Do your forget the games where we played terrible ineffective football for 75 mins with more squad options than we have now only for Jose to make his change and bring Fellaini on to play lump ball to try scrape something.

Jose just didn't work out, he's already said he's made many mistakes and he hopes to learn and make new ones in the future. He may do well at Spurs but that doesn't absolve him of his failures at Utd.

Did the Madrid and Chelsea board in his final season there turn on him too? Jose has a record leaving clubs dramatically when he's football goes South. There is no conspiracy against him, the man can hve some great seasons with teams and then he's capable of alienating everyone and playing some absolute dross. He's not perfect and he just didn't produce enough at Utd to warrant more time. Get over it.

Until that point Jose had his way and until that point we were doing far ****ing better than we are doing now

Father Hernandez · 27-11-2019 09:48PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

I didn't use the word sold, I said clear out. Smalling and Sanchez will be offered to the clubs come end of season, thinking otherwise is just begrudging. You don't loan out senior players you think have a future in the team.

Given how well Smalling has done for Roma so far, will he be sold when he returns? Remember he was given a new contract in Dec 18 until 2022.

xtal191 · 28-11-2019 01:08AM

https://twitter.com/AndyMitten/status/1199665662718828544

Cantona's Collars · 28-11-2019 02:05AM

The revisionism on Smalling is amazing, he's decent but nowhere near United quality. Serie A suits him and he should stay there and rebuild his reputation.

Strumms · 28-11-2019 02:17AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

I didn't use the word sold, I said clear out. Smalling and Sanchez will be offered to the clubs come end of season, thinking otherwise is just begrudging. You don't loan out senior players you think have a future in the team.

The real head scratcher is loaning out Smalling yet keeping and playing Phil Jones... that I can’t get my head around.

Smalling and Maguire might be a pretty dynamic dynamite partnership.... Smalling will be and evidently IS learning a heap playing in the Italian Siere A....should improve him no end.

28-11-2019 02:42AM

Strumms wrote: »

The real head scratcher is loaning out Smalling yet keeping and playing Phil Jones... that I can’t get my head around.

Smalling and Maguire might be a pretty dynamic dynamite partnership.... Smalling will be and evidently IS learning a heap playing in the Italian Siere A....should improve him no end.

Jones is better than Smalling. First PL start of the season as an LCB, he was obviously going to be rusty. Bad squad management and tactics from Ole. Honestly you'd swear Maguire and Lindelof played like Nesta and Maldini the amount of criticism they've been able to avoid from that game

Cantona's Collars · 28-11-2019 02:49AM

Liam O wrote: »

Jones is better than Smalling. First PL start of the season as an LCB, he was obviously going to be rusty. Bad squad management and tactics from Ole. Honestly you'd swear Maguire and Lindelof played like Nesta and Maldini the amount of criticism they've been able to avoid from that game

Did you see where Jones was standing for the first goal? Everyone pushed up to play offside and Jones 10 yards behind them, that's not being rusty, that's being stupid.
Even when he tackles it always looks last ditch as if his reading of the game is slower than everyone else.

28-11-2019 03:04AM

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Did you see where Jones was standing for the first goal? Everyone pushed up to play offside and Jones 10 yards behind them, that's not being rusty, that's being stupid.
Even when he tackles it always looks last ditch as if his reading of the game is slower than everyone else.

It looks last ditch because he commits. Admittedly he sometimes over commits and gets himself hurt but he is a very good tackler on the ground and has shown that in the past.

He by no means had a good game the last time but the scapegoating is ridiculous. He should by no means have been playing where he was and I still think he was fouled for the goal there. He got to the ball so maybe the covering was the correct thing to do? There's no context to a still of the previous movement of either player. Maguire has consistently failed to close a man down at the edge of the box this season, no memes. Lindelof has consistently failed to assert himself in the air or look generally assured and has clearly not kicked on from a good showing last season, no memes. Jones starts his first PL game of the season in a position that he's never played before as far as I know and somehow it's his fault.

He's going to move on most likely and look a very good defender somewhere if he can stay fit. History suggests that won't happen but it did for Evans and there was similar scapegoating of him.

28-11-2019 08:49AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

I didn't use the word sold, I said clear out. Smalling and Sanchez will be offered to the clubs come end of season, thinking otherwise is just begrudging. You don't loan out senior players you think have a future in the team.

You don't give them bumper new contracts either

Chris Smalling, £80,000, (2023)

bucketybuck · 28-11-2019 09:19AM

I don't even disagree that Jones could be a good player, that he could easily do a Smalling or an Evans, move to a smaller club and play very well.

Its just that there are few players I care less about defending. **** him. He is emblematic of a huge problem with the club, year after year waiting for them to finally come good, to finally get fit, to finally step up, and it never happens. We have never been able to rely upon him and so he should have been turfed out years ago, but instead he and others like him are allowed to hang around like a bad smell. No wonder the winning mentality has been drained from that squad.

9 years at the club and only played in 164 league games, thats some going.

bucketybuck · 28-11-2019 09:23AM

Strumms wrote: »

The real head scratcher is loaning out Smalling yet keeping and playing Phil Jones... that I can’t get my head around.

Really? Because it seems very obvious why Smalling went and Jones didn't.

They wanted to get defenders out of the club. Somebody wanted Smalling, nobody wanted Jones. QED.

Cantona's Collars · 28-11-2019 10:29AM

Liam O wrote: »

It looks last ditch because he commits. Admittedly he sometimes over commits and gets himself hurt but he is a very good tackler on the ground and has shown that in the past.

He by no means had a good game the last time but the scapegoating is ridiculous. He should by no means have been playing where he was and I still think he was fouled for the goal there. He got to the ball so maybe the covering was the correct thing to do? There's no context to a still of the previous movement of either player. Maguire has consistently failed to close a man down at the edge of the box this season, no memes. Lindelof has consistently failed to assert himself in the air or look generally assured and has clearly not kicked on from a good showing last season, no memes. Jones starts his first PL game of the season in a position that he's never played before as far as I know and somehow it's his fault.

He's going to move on most likely and look a very good defender somewhere if he can stay fit. History suggests that won't happen but it did for Evans and there was similar scapegoating of him.

I can't understand the excuses to defend Jones, he's rarely fit and guaranteed to make a mistake in every game. Even a simple ball down the channel couldn't be dealt with by a player who has been stealing a living at United for 9 years.
He "commits to tackles"??? His positioning and reading of games along with his lack of anticipation of player movement leads him to make crazy looking challenges.
The worst thing is that he now has a net worth of £19 million for basically being an occasional (poor) footballer and full time meme.
I don't want to hate on a United player but he's truly appalling,in pretty much any job nobody gets 9 years to come good,he must thank the gods every morning that he's still at a team like United.

adox · 28-11-2019 11:09AM

Liam O wrote: »

Jones is better than Smalling. First PL start of the season as an LCB, he was obviously going to be rusty. Bad squad management and tactics from Ole. Honestly you'd swear Maguire and Lindelof played like Nesta and Maldini the amount of criticism they've been able to avoid from that game

Hes just not.

bucketybuck · 28-11-2019 11:15AM

adox wrote: »

Hes just not.

He really isn't. I never bought into the whole chuckle brothers thing about the pair of them, they could both have been fine defenders, but in a choice between the two I would take Smalling every single time.

0gac3yjefb5sv7 · 28-11-2019 11:20AM

Smalling is way ahead of Jones. Blind should have been kept and Jones contract terminated.

pjohnson · 28-11-2019 11:40AM

Jesse Lingard is captain. KO 15.50

Lord TSC · 28-11-2019 11:46AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

They wanted to get defenders out of the club. Somebody wanted Smalling, nobody wanted Jones. QED.

Not just that, but Smalling knew he'd be a starter for other teams on a similar level for us. He wasn't happy being a bench player.

Jones, on the other hand, is very happy to be 4th or 5th choice.

Where's Tunzabe been? Not seen him for a bit and thought he'd be well above Jones in the pecking order now.

Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20

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