General Premier League Thread 2019-20

gimli2112 · 24-11-2019 10:40AM

Just looking at MOTD, I'm sure if I keep watching they'll show Liverpool but fair play to Chelsea. I heard City were well in charge but at least Chelsea went at them and created chances throughout the game

just saw Sterling's goal VAR made no sense then I saw who the ref was

Harry Palmr · 24-11-2019 10:59AM

Sterling was level at worst so it should have stood, the VAR people seem to be finding distances that are almost quantum level physics to rule players offside.

Tom Mann Centuria · 24-11-2019 11:04AM

gimli2112 wrote: »

Just looking at MOTD, I'm sure if I keep watching they'll show Liverpool but fair play to Chelsea. I heard City were well in charge but at least Chelsea went at them and created chances throughout the game

just saw Sterling's goal VAR made no sense then I saw who the ref was

City edged it and deserved the win, but Chelsea looked good apart from silly mistakes (similar to the Liverpool game second half) but it's where Chelsea are this season and I think all the fans appreciate that. Not at Liverpool or City level and find it hard to put away the chances to beat the big teams and United but cut out the errors and 2 or 3 new players and they'll hopefully have a good rattle at it next season.

And VAR is a farce.

Gbear · 24-11-2019 11:41AM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Sterling was level at worst so it should have stood, the VAR people seem to be finding distances that are almost quantum level physics to rule players offside.

Drumpot · 24-11-2019 11:46AM

Gbear wrote: »

I can imagine robot refs in 40 years where they calculate the probability that a player dived. Mistakes in games are frustrating to those on the wrong end but they create drama and are a celebration of sorts of our imperfections as humans.

I am not completely agaisnt VAR but I do wonder how far this sort of technology will go in changing the game. Like tackles or the good physical side of the game. It could go from the OTT physical side of things to be being like basketball where you can’t touch an opponent.

Gbear · 24-11-2019 11:53AM

Drumpot wrote: »

I can imagine robot refs in 40 years where they calculate the probability that a player dived. Mistakes in games are frustrating to those on the wrong end but they create drama and are a celebration of sorts of our imperfections as humans.

I am not completely agaisnt VAR but I do wonder how far this sort of technology will go in changing the game. Like tackles or the good physical side of the game. It could go from the OTT physical side of things to be being like basketball where you can’t touch an opponent.

They're just tools in the end of the day. The clear problem with VAR that the people implementing it have done such an abysmal job, only I assume, because of some egotistical inclination to fear being proven wrong in public.

Rugby is a different game, so you can't always compare like with like, and, indeed, as the start of the Rugby World cup showed, it's not immune from politicking and notions about providing entertainment over following the rules of the game interfering with clear decisions (ie, players weren't sent off in the opening weekend for clear red card infringements, because they didn't want to ruin the spectacle of their flagship competition), but in general, the healthy relationship between all the match officials shows how they can comfortably inhabit the same system for the betterment of the game.

I was actually surprised that they ruled out the goal against Liverpool yesterday. Not because the push on Lovren wasn't clearly a foul, but because they've spent a lot of time ****ting the bed on such decisions this season and coming up with arbitrary reasons why clear decisons shouldn't be made.

The ball was dead, the decision was pretty quick and shown to the whole stadium on a big screen. That was the sort of efficient function we should expect.

The_Kew_Tour · 24-11-2019 11:55AM

Can’t wait till VAR is gone. It’s just lotto football now. That Sterling offside:rolleyes:

Drumpot · 24-11-2019 12:01PM

Gbear wrote: »

They're just tools in the end of the day. The clear problem with VAR that the people implementing it have done such an abysmal job, only I assume, because of some egotistical inclination to fear being proven wrong in public.

Rugby is a different game, so you can't always compare like with like, and, indeed, as the start of the Rugby World cup showed, it's not immune from politicking and notions about providing entertainment over following the rules of the game interfering with clear decisions (ie, players weren't sent off in the opening weekend for clear red card infringements, because they didn't want to ruin the spectacle of their flagship competition), but in general, the healthy relationship between all the match officials shows how they can comfortably inhabit the same system for the betterment of the game.

I was actually surprised that they ruled out the goal against Liverpool yesterday. Not because the push on Lovren wasn't clearly a foul, but because they've spent a lot of time ****ting the bed on such decisions this season and coming up with arbitrary reasons why clear decisons shouldn't be made.

The ball was dead, the decision was pretty quick and shown to the whole stadium on a big screen. That was the sort of efficient function we should expect.

The problem as you said is selective implementation or consistency. But you do lose drama and in many cases with these offsides or fouls that are called back minutes after the goal it takes away from the celebrations, particularly if it’s a good goal.

Goal across the goal line, penalties and red cards seem like a more straight forward way to use this system with less impact on the fluidity of a game. Maybe just focus on that until they have a better way of using it for other things.

Cork Boy 53 · 24-11-2019 12:26PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Can’t wait till VAR is gone. It’s just lotto football now. That Sterling offside:rolleyes:

You will have a long wait then. It is here to stay though probably will be modified.

.G. · 24-11-2019 12:33PM

Love how people blame technology. The tech isn't the issue, the rules around it and the people implementing them are. The offside rule needs changing to only take into account the position of feet or something. And have a clear bias towards benefit of the doubt to the attacker for tight decisions which is after all how its supposed to work even right now.

rob316 · 24-11-2019 12:34PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Can’t wait till VAR is gone. It’s just lotto football now. That Sterling offside:rolleyes:

Anyone who thought it would go smoothly this season is foolish. I think the new handball rule hasn't helped things though.

niallo27 · 24-11-2019 12:40PM

I dont watch much football outside premier league, is there the same level of outrage in italy, spain and Germany. It's the second season in italy I think.

Agent Coulson · 24-11-2019 12:47PM

niallo27 wrote: »

I dont watch much football outside premier league, is there the same level of outrage in italy, spain and Germany. It's the second season in italy I think.

The BBC did a bit on how each league

VAR: How does it work in Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50392207

BullBlackNova · 24-11-2019 12:51PM

niallo27 wrote: »

I dont watch much football outside premier league, is there the same level of outrage in italy, spain and Germany. It's the second season in italy I think.

It took a little bit of time to iron out the kinks in Germany but now it works well. I'm sure there have been the odd issues here and there but for the most part, decisions are made quickly and correctly. This is based on TV watching. Not sure how the in-ground experience is.

I'm tired of the VAR debate at this stage. I can't understand half the decisions being taken but a lot of that is down to the rules rather than the videos. But there are some pundits who are so against it that they're now focusing entirely on it in their analysis. Example was MoTD yesterday where the VAR debate and Liverpools luck was the focus of the analysis, not Zaha, Benteke and Ayew all missing great chances.

For all the complaints yesterday -

- The Leicester penalty re-take was correct, especially when you realise that the player who scored the rebound was one of those encroaching.

- Many VAR supporters said they wanted consistency and the Sterling decision was consistent with Firmino v Villa and Son (I don't remember the opponent). I disagreed with all three calls, but its consistent...

- The Palace goal being ruled out looked soft to me (a Liverpool fan) but Hodgson agreed with it. Said it was a push.

- Decision times seemed quicker yesterday. The Sterling decision was very quick given how close the call is, for example. Sign of improvement IMO.

ERG89 · 24-11-2019 12:54PM

Was Jota's disallowed goal yesterday not even getting checked not the worst offside decision of the season he wasn't even remotely close to being offside.

BullBlackNova · 24-11-2019 01:03PM

That's some stat on Match of the Day: on the 25 occasions that Silva's Everton have conceded first, they have lost 20 and drawn 5.

One more yesterday now too.

They are such a poor side lately. Silva's days numbered for sure but whoever is running the show with transfers should be under huge pressure too. Huge money spent in recent seasons and very little value to be seen for it.

Drumpot · 24-11-2019 01:14PM

BullBlackNova wrote: »

...... whoever is running the show with transfers should be under huge pressure too. Huge money spent in recent seasons and very little value to be seen for it.

BullBlackNova · 24-11-2019 01:22PM

ERG89 wrote: »

Was Jota's disallowed goal yesterday not even getting checked not the worst offside decision of the season he wasn't even remotely close to being offside.

The flag was against Jimenez in the build up, not Jota. Jimenez was offside when he received the initial pass before playing the return to Jota.

Or at least that was the argument - no replay on Match of the Day made it hard to tell.

TitianGerm · 24-11-2019 01:32PM

BullBlackNova wrote: »

The flag was against Jimenez in the build up, not Jota. Jimenez was offside when he received the initial pass before playing the return to Jota.

Or at least that was the argument - no replay on Match of the Day made it hard to tell.

https://streamable.com/krkuw

Doesn't look off here. The linesman isn't meant to flag until the ball goes dead though isn't it?

citytillidie · 24-11-2019 01:51PM

ERG89 wrote: »

Was Jota's disallowed goal yesterday not even getting checked not the worst offside decision of the season he wasn't even remotely close to being offside.

Ref blew whistle before the ball went in can’t look at it then as play is deemed to have stopped for the offside which the linesman incorrectly flagged for

Guy:Incognito · 24-11-2019 02:00PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Can’t wait till VAR is gone. It’s just lotto football now. That Sterling offside:rolleyes:

Even if it was getting the same amount wrong as the refs were before, how is it a lottery now but no then?

24-11-2019 02:12PM

.G. wrote: »

Love how people blame technology. The tech isn't the issue, the rules around it and the people implementing them are. The offside rule needs changing to only take into account the position of feet or something. And have a clear bias towards benefit of the doubt to the attacker for tight decisions which is after all how its supposed to work even right now.

Some people just hate change.

You are spot on, the rules need to be tinkered to work with VAR.

This is a massive change for football, to expect it to work seamlessly in the first season was probably unrealistic.

Trigger · 24-11-2019 02:13PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

https://streamable.com/krkuw

Doesn't look off here. The linesman isn't meant to flag until the ball goes dead though isn't it?

That's a widely used part of the new Var rules that the PL said that they wouldnt be implementing fully

5starpool · 24-11-2019 02:16PM

.G. wrote: »

Love how people blame technology. The tech isn't the issue, the rules around it and the people implementing them are.

This is the equivalent of saying that guns don't kill people, people do. It's a ridiculous statement that I've seen loads of times.

24-11-2019 02:16PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Even if it was getting the same amount wrong as the refs were before, how is it a lottery now but no then?

Yeah, mad logic. It's the refs using VAR and ultimately making the call!

Dr. Bre · 24-11-2019 04:00PM

VARdy

eigrod · 24-11-2019 04:40PM

Both teams just keep giving the ball away so far. Poor fare.

bangkok · 24-11-2019 04:41PM

Stunning save

niallo27 · 24-11-2019 04:41PM

Have to bury that, you cant give de gea a chance there.

eigrod · 24-11-2019 04:43PM

First one was brilliant. Second one less so, should’ve been buried.

General Premier League Thread 2019-20

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