Pro14 Season 2019-2020

The Lost Sheep · 20-11-2019 08:43PM

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Were the old welsh clubs of Llanelli RFC, Bridgend, Neath & Newport not viable at all? Was Regional rugby the only option they had?

yes. Had to cut it to 4. Not enough people to support competitive sides at higher level without creating regional sodes

Squidgy Black · 20-11-2019 08:55PM

I think it probably is a good idea in the long run, they're clearly struggling to split resources across 4 teams which is evident in the Dragons being consistently terrible (since 2006 they haven't finished higher than 7th in the pro10/12). The regions also seem to really struggle for depth also, for example look at Ospreys while the internationals have been gone, same with Cardiff and even Scarlets to an extent. Would free up cash to try and help prevent players from leaving for France and the Premiership too potentially.

Ospreys seem to be extremely keen on merging with either Scarlets or Cardiff going off the statements from earlier this year, mostly due to the fact they're struggling with their stadium, and their performance so far this year isn't going to help matters.

Podge_irl · 20-11-2019 08:58PM

I just don't really understand why you would merge the two most successful clubs and keep the bloody Dragons.

Squidgy Black · 20-11-2019 09:08PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I just don't really understand why you would merge the two most successful clubs and keep the bloody Dragons.

It's mostly due to proximity, and also the fact they've a stadium that's way too big for their average attendance (roughly 15k seats empty on average). They're the two closest regions and the fan bases are typically linked too (the original proposals for that region were Neath, Swansea and Llanelli).

If the merger was to happen, you'd see a big change in the Dragons more than likely, with players being distributed as well as other resources. It wouldn't be a case of just merging everything Ospreys into Scarlets, you'd imagine the WRU would be keen to scrape a bit off and shove it over East.

Podge_irl · 20-11-2019 09:50PM

Fair enough - but you are talking about the only two teams who have anything approaching success with both teams having won the domestic league multiple times. Cardiff and Newport are almost as close as Swansea and Llanelli and Dragons already have the downside of being an amalgamation of Newport and Ebbw Vale who never really got along and frankly having pretty ropey support.

Ultimately I think we will all suffer without 4 welsh teams and its a shame it is seeming to come to this.

Tigerandahalf · 20-11-2019 10:03PM

It has been interesting reading some of the viewpoints about the investment in the pro14 and the possibility of a British Irish league.

The Welsh sides could certainly benefit from derbies against Bath, Bristol and Gloucester. Fans would likely travel to away games.

The Irish sides are still very reliant on the European Cup to draw in big crowds and create that interest and supporter base.

I haven't read any details on what commercial powers CVC will have regards the pro14.

Are they free to arrange a play off competition between the top 4 in the pro14 and the premiership. Given that they now have a stake in both competitions.

The playoffs in the pro14 have been a dull affair and could really do with an extra edge.

Squidgy Black · 20-11-2019 10:28PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

It has been interesting reading some of the viewpoints about the investment in the pro14 and the possibility of a British Irish league.

The Welsh sides could certainly benefit from derbies against Bath, Bristol and Gloucester. Fans would likely travel to away games.

The Irish sides are still very reliant on the European Cup to draw in big crowds and create that interest and supporter base.

I haven't read any details on what commercial powers CVC will have regards the pro14.

Are they free to arrange a play off competition between the top 4 in the pro14 and the premiership. Given that they now have a stake in both competitions.

The playoffs in the pro14 have been a dull affair and could really do with an extra edge.

They only have a minority stake, 27% in the Premiership and 27% in the Pro14, so they won't be able to make any changes or anything without backing of the IRFU, SRU and WRU who co-own the league.

They can certainly table discussions and hope they get the backing of one of the unions (presumably the WRU would be their main ally in terms of getting a British and Irish league) but I doubt the English teams have any remote interest considering they've been trying to ring fence their own competition.

Squidgy Black · 20-11-2019 10:29PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Fair enough - but you are talking about the only two teams who have anything approaching success with both teams having won the domestic league multiple times. Cardiff and Newport are almost as close as Swansea and Llanelli and Dragons already have the downside of being an amalgamation of Newport and Ebbw Vale who never really got along and frankly having pretty ropey support.

Ultimately I think we will all suffer without 4 welsh teams and its a shame it is seeming to come to this.

By all accounts it isn't the WRU actually pushing the merger, more so them backing the Ospreys in their quest to get one. Apparently it was the Ospreys themselves who reached out to both Cardiff and Scarlets proposing a merger.

aloooof · 21-11-2019 10:06AM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

By all accounts it isn't the WRU actually pushing the merger, more so them backing the Ospreys in their quest to get one. Apparently it was the Ospreys themselves who reached out to both Cardiff and Scarlets proposing a merger.

His suggestion seems to include Ospreys merging with someone, along with setting up another North Wales region:

And his blueprint for the future includes:

1. Regional mergers and a new set-up for north Wales
2. How regions must put facilities and appointing top-notch coaches first... and the players last
3. Looking and learning from the successful provincial model in Ireland
4. Supporting the regional game with a top division Welsh Premiership of eight clubs

In a sense, I think Ireland got lucky that we had 4 provinces that people could immediately identify with. Wales didn't have that, so whatever Regions they came up with was always going to cause some issues. But even at that, Gatland seems to think they got it wrong:

"I think even right from the start of regional rugby you probably got the boundaries wrong. That was hard," he said.

Cookiemunster · 26-11-2019 05:27PM

Allen Clarke is no longer the Ospreys coach. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50562693

c.p.w.g.w · 26-11-2019 05:28PM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Allen Clarke is no longer the Ospreys coach. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50562693

How many players were they missing due to the world cup?

CatFromHue · 26-11-2019 09:07PM

Ulster v Scarlets
Treviso v Cardiff
Dragons v Zebre
Ospreys v Cheetahs

There's a good chance all the Welsh teams will lose as Wales are playing the BaaBaas this weekend too.

beggars_bush · 26-11-2019 09:49PM

Basically Welsh people only want to follow the national team

They've destroyed rugby at club level

The Lost Sheep · 26-11-2019 11:33PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

Basically Welsh people only want to follow the national team

They've destroyed rugby at club level

they had to create regions and was always going to be difficult when there wasnt natural regions to follow, so many sides are so close to each other in south Wales and no real rugby in northern half of country and grassroots rugby so strong.
National team is successful and unites in way no other rugby would

c.p.w.g.w · 27-11-2019 01:43AM

beggars_bush wrote: »

Basically Welsh people only want to follow the national team

They've destroyed rugby at club level

The advent of the Celtic league pretty much destroyed the club game here to, I remember going to Shannon games in the late 90's early 00's crowds were great, went to a few AIL finals with big crowds...all that is gone now, many fans at Munster games now couldn't tell you who their local club is

BakeMeACake · 27-11-2019 04:23AM

sydthebeat wrote:

and again conference A will be a lot more competitive than Conference B

That's how I see it also!

Clegg · 27-11-2019 02:46PM

It appears that the Ospreys BOM have forbidden staff from commenting on Clarje's departure. What a mess.

https://twitter.com/rpetty80/status/1199666889384964102?s=19

awec · 28-11-2019 01:31PM

Tell you what, the situation with the Welsh this weekend just highlights how big of a farce the Pro14 is. Welsh teams without international players because the WRU would rather play a poxy friendly game against the barabarians.

They may as well just come out and say they don't give two ****s about the Pro14.

The sooner this nonsense ends the better. Roll on the revolution. The game has went professional but there is still far too much amateur-esque rubbish dragging it down.

c.p.w.g.w · 28-11-2019 01:52PM

awec wrote: »

Tell you what, the situation with the Welsh this weekend just highlights how big of a farce the Pro14 is. Welsh teams without international players because the WRU would rather play a poxy friendly game against the barabarians.

They may as well just come out and say they don't give two ****s about the Pro14.

The sooner this nonsense ends the better. Roll on the revolution. The game has went professional but there is still far too much amateur-esque rubbish dragging it down.

The whole barbarians and lions tour should have really stayed in the amateur era

28-11-2019 01:57PM

awec wrote: »

Tell you what, the situation with the Welsh this weekend just highlights how big of a farce the Pro14 is. Welsh teams without international players because the WRU would rather play a poxy friendly game against the barabarians.

They may as well just come out and say they don't give two ****s about the Pro14.

The sooner this nonsense ends the better. Roll on the revolution. The game has went professional but there is still far too much amateur-esque rubbish dragging it down.

Count up at the end of the season how many games the Welsh internationals play in the league vs how many the Irish do and come back to us. Ulster and Munster have a load of players with their feet up by the fire this weekend, at least the Welsh players are actually playing.

awec · 28-11-2019 02:03PM

Leslie Proud Blob wrote: »

Count up at the end of the season how many games the Welsh internationals play in the league vs how many the Irish do and come back to us. Ulster and Munster have a load of players with their feet up by the fire this weekend, at least the Welsh players are actually playing.

Oh you’ll find no argument from me that we’re also a joke.

But this is just so brazenly pathetic.

Can you imagine a football team having to play matches without their internationals outside the window? It’s total rubbish.

c.p.w.g.w · 28-11-2019 02:05PM

Leslie Proud Blob wrote: »

Count up at the end of the season how many games the Welsh internationals play in the league vs how many the Irish do and come back to us. Ulster and Munster have a load of players with their feet up by the fire this weekend, at least the Welsh players are actually playing.

Well the IRFU play management approach isn't work re: world cups, some of our international players rarely play, and when they don't fire they wonder why. Building form is critical, can't do that by playing 7-9 European games, 6-7 League games.

The Lost Sheep · 28-11-2019 02:05PM

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

The whole barbarians and lions tour should have really stayed in the amateur era

I dont see why. It's something different to just the same sides playing over and over and why not keep in touch with the past?

c.p.w.g.w · 28-11-2019 02:06PM

awec wrote: »

Oh you’ll find no argument from me that we’re also a joke.

But this is just so brazenly pathetic.

Can you imagine a football team having to play matches without their internationals outside the window? It’s total rubbish.

Only happens to very small or poorly run leagues. Certainly not leagues that provide champions League winners

Kevski · 28-11-2019 02:28PM

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

The whole barbarians and lions tour should have really stayed in the amateur era

Nah, it shouldn’t. It should stay within international windows, however.

c.p.w.g.w · 28-11-2019 02:38PM

Kevski wrote: »

Nah, it shouldn’t. It should stay within international windows, however.

It's literally just a money generation tool for the tier 1 nations* and does nowt to grow or promote the game. As an ametaur sport it had merit, within a professional sports it's regressive

*Excluding France & Argentina

razorblunt · 28-11-2019 02:48PM

awec wrote: »

Tell you what, the situation with the Welsh this weekend just highlights how big of a farce the Pro14 is. Welsh teams without international players because the WRU would rather play a poxy friendly game against the barabarians.

They may as well just come out and say they don't give two ****s about the Pro14.

The sooner this nonsense ends the better. Roll on the revolution. The game has went professional but there is still far too much amateur-esque rubbish dragging it down.

It's going to be soooo much better when the English teams open the door and let them play in their league. The Welsh fans are just waiting to get thumped by the English teams at home then they'll come back to watch.
So Wales Online tells us.

Kevski · 28-11-2019 03:06PM

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

It's literally just a money generation tool for the tier 1 nations* and does nowt to grow or promote the game. As an ametaur sport it had merit, within a professional sports it's regressive

*Excluding France & Argentina

It can certainly be argued that the Barbarians can play a part in growing and promoting the game. Just last week they travelled to Brazil to play against the national side - when is the last time that a team consisting of players of that calibre travelled to Brazil?

While the Lions might not have much of a part to play in growing the game, it certainly promotes it. A combined team made up of some of the best players in the world playing a three test series against the world champions is something that I am very much looking forward to.

Both the Barbarians and the Lions are part of the history of the rugby and pre-date a significant amount of the modern day clubs. Their games should stay within the international windows rather than interfere with the club season but I don’t see a reason to view them as regressive just because the sport is now professional.

leakyboots · 28-11-2019 03:17PM

I think it'd be a shame if we lost The Lions or The Baa-Baas personally

salmocab · 28-11-2019 03:26PM

leakyboots wrote: »

I think it'd be a shame if we lost The Lions or The Baa-Baas personally

I like the idea of the baa baa’s but honestly almost never watch them and I’m very much over the lions, used to love it but now it’s too polished and too long.

Pro14 Season 2019-2020

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