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What are the most useless/useful college degrees?

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  • #122
    Pmacv1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭Pmacv1


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Straight away your Arts and Humanities( did this "Liberal Arts" label originate from stateside?) degree served as a stepping stone to a post-grad so not a useless venture at all.

    Well not really, if I had of just done stem initially, I'd have saved 6 years of time wasted.


  • #123
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Pmacv1 wrote: »
    Well not really, if I had of just done stem initially, I'd have saved 6 years of time wasted.

    Saved six years? How? a STEM degree would be three to four years from scratch either way.


  • #124
    LirW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    joe40 wrote: »
    There is a quote, (attributed to Einstein but I'm not sure) which states that
    "Education is what is left behind when everything you have learned has been forgotten"

    The skills, work ethic, thinking skills are all important regardless of the degree.

    It does not matter what you learned in the past if you're not using the actual knowledge in everyday worklife it will be forgotten. The skills remain.

    Work ethic, thinking skills and practical skills can only be learned to a certain extent, it's the natural affinity one brings that will make them stand out.
    The best education regardless of field doesn't help if your work ethic is bad. People are bad at maths because they lack the thinking skills to make logical sense of it. If you aren't good with your hands you'll never make exceptional cabinets.

    Einstein was right with what he said.
    Also good to keep in mind that in the past regimes went after the intellectuals first because they posted the biggest threat to their ideology. Mao for example was an unintelligent man who resented the idea of an educated society. Same with Pol Pot.


  • #125
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Saved six years? How? a STEM degree would be three to four years from scratch either way.
    Are they not referring to the four years for their English degree and masters, then two years in crappy jobs to save money?

    I'm inclined to agree with them. Although I agree with a mix of academia and practical too, as mentioned. An English undergrad isn't so pointless imo, but I'd only do a practical postgrad.


  • #126
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    Are they not referring to the four years for their English degree and masters, then two years in crappy jobs to save money?

    I'm inclined to agree with them. Although I agree with a mix of academia and practical too, as mentioned. An English undergrad isn't so pointless imo, but I'd only do a practical postgrad.

    Still not a net six years "wasted" though, having the degree/masters still allowed for a 1-2 year post-grad, as opposed to a 3-4 year STEM degree from the beginning.


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  • #127
    LirW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    Are they not referring to the four years for their English degree and masters, then two years in crappy jobs to save money?

    I'm inclined to agree with them. Although I agree with a mix of academia and practical too, as mentioned. An English undergrad isn't so pointless imo, but I'd only do a practical postgrad.

    A practical post grad is key to success in an Arts discipline. A very theoretical only really makes sense when you want to stay in academia because this is your bread and butter and it's a tough field.

    I feel a big problem is that kids have to decide with 17 what they want to do with their lives. You aren't fully matured at this point. They key question every student before even starting should ask themselves is: what do I want out of my chosen course?
    Many can't answer that and if the answer is "a job" then that's fine as long as they're happy with this decision.
    If you decide to go for a post grad you definitely should have a very precise idea where you want to go with it. There are plenty of options making a very theoretical degree more useful in the private industry. Of course there's never a guarantee but it makes life easier.


  • #128
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    EmmetSpiceland wrote: »
    Ah, come on now. Anyone in a book “club” can get all the information they’d need to produce a thesis on some old “classic” by using the information stored on wikipedia or sparknotes.

    It's hard to argue with anti-intellectualism of this extent. It's like saying someone interested in computer programming can learn everything he needs to know from YouTube videos and a copy of C++ for Dummies. Who needs universities?
    The idea that some wizened old lecturer reading aloud from an essay they wrote on the topic in 1974 is going to give the student any hidden “knowledge” is, quite simply, laughable.

    How many of these "wizened old lecturers" with 45-year-old lecture notes can you find on the websites of Irish university literature departments? Have a look at the Trinity College teaching staff and see if you can pull out any examples.
    Also, are you serious about the reading and writing “skills” part?

    Of course. Writing is a skill that can be taught just like any other. Most American undergraduates take first-year courses in writing, typically known as "freshman composition," and it makes a marked difference in their ability to express themselves fluently in prose.


  • #129
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Straight away your Arts and Humanities( did this "Liberal Arts" label originate from stateside? I'am reading it a lot here) degree served as a stepping stone to a post-grad so not a useless venture at all.

    "Arts" is short for "liberal arts," a term that goes back at least to Cicero ("artes liberales"), so it's not an American coinage.


  • #130
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Lorenzo Some Macaroon wrote: »
    It's hard to argue with anti-intellectualism of this extent. It's like saying someone interested in computer programming can learn everything he needs to know from YouTube videos and a copy of C++ for Dummies. Who needs universities?



    How many of these "wizened old lecturers" with 45-year-old lecture notes can you find on the websites of Irish university literature departments? Have a look at the Trinity College teaching staff and see if you can pull out any examples.



    Of course. Writing is a skill that can be taught just like any other. Most American undergraduates take first-year courses in writing, typically known as "freshman composition," and it makes a marked difference in their ability to express themselves fluently in prose.

    Having attended an Arts course in one of the leading Irish Universities I'd be inclined to agree with much of what he says.

    A friend who got a first in his Arts Degree there (and I think English was a major) once informed us all that reading was "for losers" and books were "gay". He'd simply cottoned on to what lecturers wanted to see people submit and regurgitated that from summary notes to get a first class honours. The sheer number of people in Arts meant that basic teaching resources like tutorials or even library books were spread exceptionally thin. So much so that cliques would hide books that were required reading for assignments in parts of the library because there'd be maybe 6 - 12 copies avaliable for a class of several hundred.

    This was dysfunctional and fell far short of the lofty "No value can be put on an education" values espoused by defenders of Arts and Humanities. Certainly little value was put on this education by the University authorities.


  • #131
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Having attended an Arts course in one of the leading Irish Universities I'd be inclined to agree with much of what he says.

    A friend who got a first in his Arts Degree there (and I think English was a major) once informed us all that reading was "for losers" and books were "gay". He'd simply cottoned on to what lecturers wanted to see people submit and regurgitated that from summary notes to get a first class honours. The sheer number of people in Arts meant that basic teaching resources like tutorials or even library books were spread exceptionally thin. So much so that cliques would hide books that were required reading for assignments in parts of the library because there'd be maybe 6 - 12 copies avaliable for a class of several hundred.

    This was dysfunctional and fell far short of the lofty "No value can be put on an education" values espoused by defenders of Arts and Humanities. Certainly little value was put on this education by the University authorities.

    You can certainly criticize courses for being poorly resourced and taught, but that doesn't mean the subjects themselves are worthless.

    There are certainly issues with liberal arts education in Ireland, no doubt there. Too many students can skate by doing the bare minimum and regurgitating lecture notes. Grade inflation is out of control, so that some students are getting firsts and 2:1's for work that, a generation ago, would barely have got a pass. But that's an issue with how the courses are organized, taught, and graded.

    A student majoring in English at Harvard will have a very different experience.


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  • #132
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    So much so that cliques would hide books that were required reading for assignments in parts of the library because there'd be maybe 6 - 12 copies avaliable for a class of several hundred.
    .

    Ah where there is a will there's a way, Im sure said books could be sourced online, either in print or digital format. I never depended on my college library for any thesis/assignment as everything and much more could be found on the internet, most of the time downloadable instantly for "free" or for purchase.


  • #133
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Lorenzo Some Macaroon wrote: »
    You can certainly criticize courses for being poorly resourced and taught, but that doesn't mean the subjects themselves are worthless.

    There are certainly issues with liberal arts education in Ireland, no doubt there. Too many students can skate by doing the bare minimum and regurgitating lecture notes. Grade inflation is out of control, so that some students are getting firsts and 2:1's for work that, a generation ago, would barely have got a pass. But that's an issue with how the courses are organized, taught, and graded.

    A student majoring in English at Harvard will have a very different experience.

    Absolutely, there's considerable value in the subjects. My point was that the way we teach it at the moment, as the oversubscribed, underesourced choice of people who don't know what they want to do but believe they have to attend college, devalues the subject, and cheats both the student and the exchequer.

    A more limited number of Arts places would be better for everyone except those who see publicly funded further education as a business opportunity. That's what the lofty platitudes about arts and humanities obscure.


  • #134
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Absolutely, there's considerable value in the subjects. My point was that the way we teach it at the moment, as the oversubscribed, underesourced choice of people who don't know what they want to do but believe they have to attend college, devalues the subject, and cheats both the student and the exchequer.

    A more limited number of Arts places would be better for everyone except those who see publicly funded further education as a business opportunity. That's what the lofty platitudes about arts and humanities obscure.

    I'd agree with that entirely.

    My issue is with the people claiming that the subjects themselves are worthless, rather than that the courses are over-enrolled and poorly resourced.

    Ireland urgently needs to rethink its approach to post-secondary education. Not everyone has the aptitude or interest to do a STEM degree. And there are many people who go to university by default but who would realistically be better off pursuing some kind of trade or apprenticeship.


  • #135
    LirW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Lorenzo Some Macaroon wrote: »
    I'd agree with that entirely.

    My issue is with the people claiming that the subjects themselves are worthless, rather than that the courses are over-enrolled and poorly resourced.

    Ireland urgently needs to rethink its approach to post-secondary education. Not everyone has the aptitude or interest to do a STEM degree. And there are many people who go to university by default but who would realistically be better off pursuing some kind of trade or apprenticeship.

    You're bang on with that.
    Arts and humanities are unfortunately often the place for young people to go when they aren't really suited in the first place. Some colleges solve this by knock out exams. In other instances the majority of people that are just there for the sake of studying something will be gone after the first year.

    While some courses are easier to grind out than others, if you don't have the persistence for third level you won't make it. After all, we're talking about teenager here that have to make a fundamental live decision at a time in their lives when they have everything else but the future and education in mind. Then they have the general consensus shoved down their throat that college is essential for their success later in life.
    This is a big deal in everyone's life.

    That's why I'm in favour of entry exams where their aptitude for the subject is assessed. I've seen this successfully implemented in overrun courses.


  • #136
    KSU
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Take out the first five and you get a population that votes for trump every single time ...and we all die.

    Take out the first five and you decrease a huge portion of the high risk student debts in the US so you know silver clouds and all

    Degree's are a commodity that should take into account investment vs RoR

    (I say this as someone who has a Philosophy and Classics degree among other qualifications)


  • #137
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    Lorenzo Some Macaroon wrote: »
    I'd agree with that entirely.

    My issue is with the people claiming that the subjects themselves are worthless, rather than that the courses are over-enrolled and poorly resourced.

    Ireland urgently needs to rethink its approach to post-secondary education. Not everyone has the aptitude or interest to do a STEM degree. And there are many people who go to university by default but who would realistically be better off pursuing some kind of trade or apprenticeship.

    Absolutely, I would go so far as to say post 16 education needs a rethink.
    Vast majority are now staying in a school setting until they are nearly 18 or above with a significant number getting nothing from it, and in many cases hindering progress of others.
    School type education stops been useful for a proportion of our students after a certain stage and tinkering with courses is not helping.
    I teach in the north where a significant number leave after the GCSE exams, age 16, and go to FE colleges, training etc.

    I think some of our older pupils in sec school would suit this approach. I'm not saying the northern system is ideal, some of the FE college courses are suspect but many do provide a good stepping stone to further career, education or training but not in a school setting.


  • #138
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    EmmetSpiceland wrote: »
    They might not be “acceptable” but they have the same information, or the most “relevant” at least.

    If you were stuck to provide further “backup” you could easily just hit the library, pick up a few books on the subject and use them as your official citations

    Even on here you see people who claim to be some sort of “expert” on certain subjects and everything they put forward can be easily found on Wikipedia or with a simple “google” search.

    Yes, an online resource which can be edited and contributed to by any aul eejit (often incorrectly) is infinitely better than gaining knowledge from someone with a wealth of experience and insight in their chosen academic field :rolleyes:


  • #139
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    All degrees are useless if you do not put them to use.


  • #140
    PHG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭PHG


    I used to go out with a girl that did a branch of a media studies degree in UK. One of the modules was porn!!!

    Every time she mentioned it I shook my head because she came out with 20k in debt and only got a 2.2!! What a waste of time and money.

    That said, my mates brother did another offset of media and is an amazing sound engineer and DJ.


  • #141
    bnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,138 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    partyguinness wrote: »
    All degrees are useless if you do not put them to use.
    I wouldn't quite say that. I'm not working specifically in the field in which I have a degree (Engineering), but was a good general scientific education to get. I was a mature student and I definitely see the world differently since leaving university.

    You are the type of what the age is searching for, and what it is afraid it has found. I am so glad that you have never done anything, never carved a statue, or painted a picture, or produced anything outside of yourself! Life has been your art. You have set yourself to music. Your days are your sonnets.

    ―Oscar Wilde predicting Social Media, in The Picture of Dorian Gray



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  • #142
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    My wife's friend has a BA in Fine Arts. She has spent the last 20 years working with the retailer H&M as a manager. She recently left to work as a school secretary.


  • #143
    Pawwed Rig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,448 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    How did Trump make his way onto this thread?

    Is there a descriptive word similar to Godwin to describe places where Trump is levered in for no reason?


  • #144
    vriesmays
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Film degrees are the biggest waste of paper.


  • #145
    Phoenix Wright
    Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭Phoenix Wright


    Job prospects are very limited in psychology unless you obtain a postgraduate degree


  • #146
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    Phoenix Wright wrote: »
    Job prospects are very limited in psychology unless you obtain a postgraduate degree

    Even with a postgraduate qualification, they are still very limited!


  • #147
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Pmacv1 wrote: »
    Here's my list:

    1. Gender Studies
    2. English
    3. Classics
    4. Theology/Philosophy
    5. Sociology

    Honourable mention to Politics

    Most useful:

    1. Medicine
    2. Computer Science
    3. Physics/Chemistry
    4. Engineering
    5. Nursing

    I once had a module in college on gender archaeology

    I kid you not.
    It was insufferable


  • #148
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,817 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    I once had a module in college on gender archaeology

    I kid you not.
    It was insufferable

    You must be sick of the “Sheela na gigs” so.

    EmmetSpiceland: Oft imitated but never bettered.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • #149
    Pmacv1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭Pmacv1


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    I once had a module in college on gender archaeology

    I kid you not.
    It was insufferable

    How? Why?


  • #150
    Phoenix Wright
    Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭Phoenix Wright


    Lorenzo Some Macaroon wrote:
    Even with a postgraduate qualification, they are still very limited!


    If I could turn back time..


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  • #151
    Greyfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Lorenzo Some Macaroon wrote: »
    It's hard to argue with anti-intellectualism of this extent. It's like saying someone interested in computer programming can learn everything he needs to know from YouTube videos and a copy of C++ for Dummies. Who needs universities?

    It's not really. Clearly you need to actually attend college to learn C++. If you want to understand why a piece of literature is loved theirs plenty of free resources online that can teach you.


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