Company retracting car parking facilities

godtabh · 13-11-2019 5:14pm

daheff wrote: »

does anybody?

I was undeR the impression you had to if you had an assigned space.

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 5:14pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

You see this is why we can't have nice things. People get a cushy perk for a while because their employers were good enough to do so while not being obliged to & then the employer gets it thrown back in their faces because they gave staff a nice thing for too long.

As someone who employs people, this attitude drives me absolutely insane.

Not really, if employer is providing parking that can be taken away he/she needs for this to be known from day one in a contract etc. Otherwise like ALL other terms that are ongoing for significant time can be considered implied terms. Company not doing their job right. Additionally if there was no consultation with employees that would be affected then company not doing their job right - that two for two.

I'm a manager in my company so I wouldn't always see it from the employees point of view, but I would believe the company is being very short sighted here and lining themselves up for employee discontent and possible actions.

Always consult with employees for any change that is possibly considered detrimental to current employee terms.

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 5:17pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Now sweetie, we're mostly grown ups here. If you had fruit in the office for 9 years & they removed that, would you go on boards to have a whinge?

In previous jobs I've had pay cuts, perks withdrawn & signed new agreements to accept that.

You're the type of person who ruins everything for everyone else because from now on the company will have to be prescriptive & will not give any extras or you'll want to go to mediation over it. Just grow up & cop on, you had a non-contractual benefit & the show is over.

If you were employable & it was that big an issue you'd go & get another job, but I'm guessing that's not the case.

You've had paycuts and you signed to accept them, that does not mean others can or need to. Employers need to be better these days in what they will be held to account for. I'm an employee but come from a self employed family background and I see both sides of the coin.

henryd65 · 13-11-2019 5:17pm

Re the bik on car parking, if I recall correctly, Charlie McCreevy, the former Finance Minister announced a bik on such perks in a budget, c. 2000/2001.

Of course, by the time the Finance Act came around that year, the matter was dropped. I reckon Charlie may have got some pushback from the public sector.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 5:20pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Not in business 9 years, however I'd like to think they'd understand that business needs come before their own. They entered into a contract prior to starting work & it didn't include parking, so if they got it, that's great, but it's not something that had been promised. Obviously they would prefer we had parking etc. but if we're moving office in town, options are limited. If someone raised a major issue about it and needed official consultation, I know who I'd be planning on letting go if we ever had to restructure or hit hard times.

It would be a huge highlight to me that someone is not a team player & is purely out for what they can personally get. i.e. their values are not aligned with values of the business (which are Growth of profits & professional development of staff)

Ah. You're relatively inexperienced as a leader and employer then.

For you to think an employee would put YOUR companies growth and profit over what 'they can personally get' is quite naive.

Pre 1916 type of ****.

Have a good evening sir.

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 5:21pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Fair enough, can't help feeling the taxman missed out on that one.

How much is city center parking worth €3 an hour 8 hours a day, €24 by 5 days
€120 by 48 weeks €5760 a year, that's some benefit to get gratis.

There is no bik if no direct payment is made, eg employer has a carpark. If the employer was paying a garage for individual car spaces then the payment could be considered bik.

Also inner city parking could be negotiated to €3,550 per year not €5,760! why on earth would you pay side of road county council rates.

Its also to the companies benefit as some commuters would not work for said company if the space was not available.

tomwaits48 · 13-11-2019 5:22pm

I'd build the cost of losing the parking into my next pay review.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 5:22pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Not really, if employer is providing parking that can be taken away he/she needs for this to be known from day one in a contract etc. Otherwise like ALL other terms that are ongoing for significant time can be considered implied terms. Company not doing their job right. Additionally if there was no consultation with employees that would be affected then company not doing their job right - that two for two.

I'm a manager in my company so I wouldn't always see it from the employees point of view, but I would believe the company is being very short sighted here and lining themselves up for employee discontent and possible actions.

Always consult with employees for any change that is possibly considered detrimental to current employee terms.

Thank you! This is exactly the type of reply I was looking for.

It wasn't my intention to come across as 'privileged'. Fortunate, yes, but not privileged.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 5:23pm

tomwaits48 wrote: »

I'd build the cost of losing the parking into my next pay review.

Definitely with discussing. Thank you!

L1011 · 13-11-2019 5:25pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Fair enough, can't help feeling the taxman missed out on that one.

How much is city center parking worth €3 an hour 8 hours a day, €24 by 5 days
€120 by 48 weeks €5760 a year, that's some benefit to get gratis.

You will never be paying €120 a week anywhere in the city if a regular/full time user. I can (and generally don't, I take the train) get parking next to my office in D1 for €1360 a year (30 for an 8 day 'week', I believe a computer system glitch they have decided to embrace)

Multiplying the marginal price of buying one to get a bulk value is what the Drugs Squad do :pac:

Mickiemcfist · 13-11-2019 5:25pm

La Haine wrote: »

Ah. You're relatively inexperienced as a leader and employer then.

For you to think an employee would put YOUR companies growth and profit over what 'they can personally get' is quite naive.

Pre 1916 type of ****.

Have a good evening sir.

Their pay package include shares so eh... yea their values are aligned.
Inexperienced as a business owner yep, leader or employer (in the sense of managing staff) nope.

Have a good evening - hope you manage to land a job where you can park at your desk.

ZiabR · 13-11-2019 5:30pm

La Haine wrote: »

Sweetie.

Congratulations on getting as far as you have. I salute you.
However, try and now narrow your focus: Would your our own employees <cough> thank you for what time they had with a perk you provided (freely and willingly) for 9 years when you withdraw it?

Why are so stuck on the 9 years. The time you have worked for the company is completely irrelevant. You were getting a free car space that you were not contracted to get. It was a really helpful and nice benefit. You don't have a leg to stand on. The company have done nothing wrong with move to an alternative location.

This is a personal problem you have with a perk that you were never really entitled to in the first place. I just don't get your attitude.

If it were me and I was told that a perk I was getting was being removed, I would accept it and move on.

If you have such a problem with company moving and you losing a car space of all things, then maybe leave the company and find somewhere where you will get a free car space.

You remind me of a few people who have come and gone from the company I work for. They ruined alot of the perks that we had by taking the p*ss.

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 5:31pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Not in business 9 years, however I'd like to think they'd understand that business needs come before their own. They entered into a contract prior to starting work & it didn't include parking, so if they got it, that's great, but it's not something that had been promised. Obviously they would prefer we had parking etc. but if we're moving office in town, options are limited. If someone raised a major issue about it and needed official consultation, I know who I'd be planning on letting go if we ever had to restructure or hit hard times.

It would be a huge highlight to me that someone is not a team player & is purely out for what they can personally get. i.e. their values are not aligned with values of the business (which are Growth of profits & professional development of staff)

Well done on showing you have also no idea of how a redundancy case would come about due to unfair selection practices, you've already marked cards with that comment.

Employees work for you, they are not a loyal lapdog, they are humans and human nature dictates that yes you can earn loyalty but not command it.

Larbre34 · 13-11-2019 5:33pm

La Haine wrote: »

Definitely with discussing. Thank you!

€6k before tax would be a fair valuation of that.

ZiabR · 13-11-2019 5:34pm

La Haine wrote: »

Thank you! This is exactly the type of reply I was looking for.

It wasn't my intention to come across as 'privileged'. Fortunate, yes, but not privileged.

Seems the truth of your OP was to only get the answers you wanted to hear...
From a legal point of view, the contract you signed had no mention of a free car space, so you don't have a leg to stand on. I really don't understand how you cannot see that.

ZiabR · 13-11-2019 5:37pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Well done on showing you have also no idea of how a redundancy case would come about due to unfair selection practices, you've already marked cards with that comment.

Employees work for you, they are not a loyal lapdog, they are humans and human nature dictates that yes you can earn loyalty but not command it.

While I agree that the comment was not in good taste, I can't help but feel alot of businesses would be thinking along the same lines.

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 5:38pm

ZiabR wrote: »

Seems the truth of your OP was to only get the answers you wanted to hear...
From a legal point of view, the contract you signed had no mention of a free car space, so you don't have a leg to stand on. I really don't understand how you cannot see that.

Significant time (9 years) can create an implied term and when it comes down to it if there is a conflict on this the WRC / labour court will make the decision as to whether it is part of the employees package or not. Not me or you.

Mickiemcfist · 13-11-2019 5:42pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Well done on showing you have also no idea of how a redundancy case would come about due to unfair selection practices, you've already marked cards with that comment.

Employees work for you, they are not a loyal lapdog, they are humans and human nature dictates that yes you can earn loyalty but not command it.

Oh no, Ken from the internet has marked my cards :rolleyes:
I'm well aware of correct selection practices for redundancy. I would also happily pay unfair dismissal to get rid of toxic staff, it's at worst 104 weeks, however that's only if the employee hasn't been reemployed for 104 weeks, which is unlikely in Ireland.
However I hire well (so far anyway) so it's never been necessary.

ZiabR · 13-11-2019 5:45pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Significant time (9 years) can create an implied term and when it comes down to it if there is a conflict on this the WRC / labour court will make the decision as to whether it is part of the employees package or not. Not me or you.

Please... you are bringing up the WRC and the Labour Court over a car space? A car space that the employer was not obliged to provide in the first place. This is exactly what is wrong with half of the work force in this country.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 5:45pm

ZiabR wrote: »

Seems the truth of your OP was to only get the answers you wanted to hear...
From a legal point of view, the contract you signed had no mention of a free car space, so you don't have a leg to stand on. I really don't understand how you cannot see that.

Hi,

There is no right or wrong answer.

Looking for insights, opinions and general info my friend. I certainly wouldn’t be going back to HR quoting just Boardsies opinions! ðŸ€—

Thanks for contributing all the same.

Trampas · 13-11-2019 5:46pm

Bik on city parking. They thought about it then realised they’d be punishing themselves so that was the end of that. They’d love to tax the private sector only.

I believe work practice after x time is given as part of contract but I wouldn’t thought parking would come under that. Maybe they’ll give you something as a token. Did they give you anything on previous moves?

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 5:50pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Oh no, Ken from the internet has marked my cards :rolleyes:
I'm well aware of correct selection practices for redundancy. I would also happily pay unfair dismissal to get rid of toxic staff, it's at worst 104 weeks, however that's only if the employee hasn't been reemployed for 104 weeks, which is unlikely in Ireland.
However I hire well (so far anyway) so it's never been necessary.

You need to read the context of that again. I have not marked your cards, you have essentially outed in a public forum your redundancy selection methods. You have marked your cards with any dispute that is raised with WRC.

Shelflife · 13-11-2019 5:50pm

Is there a cost for parking in the new location or just an inconvenience in where you park ?

If its the former there may well be a case for relocation expenses but these sometimes are dependent on how far you have moved to/from.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 5:51pm

Trampas wrote: »

Bik on city parking. They thought about it then realised they’d be punishing themselves so that was the end of that. They’d love to tax the private sector only.

I believe work practice after x time is given as part of contract but I wouldn’t thought parking would come under that. Maybe they’ll give you something as a token. Did they give you anything on previous moves?

Actually didn’t need anything. Carpark was provided again and there was little to no disruption in service.

13-11-2019 5:51pm

BIK on parking spots would be hard to implement.
What is an assigned spot in the middle of Dublin worth?
What if you don't use it?
What if there aren't assigned spots but there are just enough spots so effectively assigned?
What is an assigned spot in a rural location worth etc. Far too cumbersome to implement.

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 5:52pm

ZiabR wrote: »

Please... you are bringing up the WRC and the Labour Court over a car space? A car space that the employer was not obliged to provide in the first place. This is exactly what is wrong with half of the work force in this country.

A car space can dictate whether or not you can feasibly work for the company going forwards if you have no other way of getting to work. Its not a small thing.

Additionally, I have worked for my employer for the last 18 years so I am a loyal employee, however it goes both ways and if my employer decided in the morning that I cannot have a space for a car it would preclude me from working in Dublin due to my home and distance from work. Which were both know to employer prior to my employment.

Previously I lived in a different home but it still involved a bus to a train, a walk from the train and a bus from the walk to get to a previous employment. I work hard, I look to ensure that my employer is helped in every way possible by me, but if I was considered a throwaway object that doesn't deserve to be consulted on something that could have a large effect on my work/life balance or simply getting to work, I would consider employment elsewhere. I know in my situation my employer would of talked with me and come to a solution instead.

Mickiemcfist · 13-11-2019 5:53pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

You need to read the context of that again. I have not marked your cards, you have essentially outed in a public forum your redundancy selection methods. You have marked your cards with any dispute that is raised with WRC.

I have outed in a public forum my redundancy selection methods if I employed someone like the OP, which has not & I'd do my very best to ensure will not happen.

Mickiemcfist · 13-11-2019 5:55pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

A car space can dictate whether or not you can feasibly work for the company going forwards if you have no other way of getting to work. Its not a small thing.

Ever heard of park & ride?

ebbsy · 13-11-2019 5:55pm

sassyj wrote: »

Could possibly be considered an implied contract term after 9 years, (custom and practice). Has any consultation been done with staff, I would request that as a first approach.

A sensible suggestion.

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 6:02pm

La Haine wrote: »

Actually didn’t need anything. Carpark was provided again and there was little to no disruption in service.

If your company was relatively large to middle sized you can bet they took legal advise on what had just happened and were informed that its a bit of a rabbit hole and it could go either way but that the troubles with your employees in an essentially full employment sphere would probably not be in the businesses best interest.

Company retracting car parking facilities

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