Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

30-10-2019 03:39PM

Till the ends of their lives?

Suckit · 30-10-2019 04:04PM

Has anything been released about Boy B since they went in to Oberstown? Has he sad anything, or would we be privy to that?
Boy A seems to have admitted he killed her, but not sexual assault.
Her attraction to him may have been a large part of the reason that he did what he did, so it might be a while before he admits more.
But Boy B, who seems to have been the cunning one, and the main reason they were caught so quickly due to his lies on top of lies doesn't seem to have come clean about anything yet, unless I have missed something?

splinter65 · 30-10-2019 04:04PM

If I were the judge in my chambers today looking for a fitting sentence here’s what I would be focusing on:
Everyone knows young teenage boys. Either you grew up with some or you have/had one living in your house or in the house of someone you know well.
They cannot be viewed the same as fully grown adults. Not even near.
So, bearing that in mind....
The most damning thing about them for me was the immediate aftermath of the ferocious murder. Both boys left Anas battered bleeding naked body in that stinking filthy house and walked out into the lovely park in the bright sunshine where the birds were singing and dogs were barking and people were walking and laughing.
They both walked home and into the normality of their own homes. Something to eat. Mammys stupid questions. Daddy’s watching the telly.
But you’ve just killed/watched someone kill another human being. Deliberately, pre planned, viciously without mercy, for no reason.
Actually you don’t even know if she was dead or not. Because you’re only 13. For all you know some other kids will go into that house right now to smoke weed and they’ll find her, ring 999 and she’ll recover and be able to tell everyone what happened....
With that there’s a ring at the door and it’s the cops. And they’re asking about Ana. Your mother is talking to them and now she’s calling you to come to the door....
Do you:
A. Completely lose it, start to bawl , spill the beans in a state of collapse, tell all....
B. Stay cool, shake your head, shrug your shoulders, hands in your pockets, keep schtum.
Over 3 days you stick to your guns and for months afterwards and right up till now.
It’s bone chilling.
I’m convinced now that for some reason long before that fateful day Ana had ceased to be a living thing to both of them. She was some kind a cartoon character who nobody loved or cared about and nobody missed. A baddie from a film.
I don’t know why they thought this but it appears that as much as they planned rigorously to lure her away from home, to violently attack her and sexually assault her they never planned for her to be missed or for there to be a search or Gardai involved. Boy A could have thrown his mask and other evidence in the river or dumped it in a wheelie bin somewhere but he to not have been bothered and just brought it home.
I think neither of them expected to hear any more about it. Why is this?

donkeykong5 · 30-10-2019 04:19PM

splinter65 wrote: »

If I were the judge in my chambers today looking for a fitting sentence here’s what I would be focusing on:
Everyone knows young teenage boys. Either you grew up with some or you have/had one living in your house or in the house of someone you know well.
They cannot be viewed the same as fully grown adults. Not even near.
So, bearing that in mind....
The most damning thing about them for me was the immediate aftermath of the ferocious murder. Both boys left Anas battered bleeding naked body in that stinking filthy house and walked out into the lovely park in the bright sunshine where the birds were singing and dogs were barking and people were walking and laughing.
They both walked home and into the normality of their own homes. Something to eat. Mammys stupid questions. Daddy’s watching the telly.
But you’ve just killed/watched someone kill another human being. Deliberately, pre planned, viciously without mercy, for no reason.
Actually you don’t even know if she was dead or not. Because you’re only 13. For all you know some other kids will go into that house right now to smoke weed and they’ll find her, ring 999 and she’ll recover and be able to tell everyone what happened....
With that there’s a ring at the door and it’s the cops. And they’re asking about Ana. Your mother is talking to them and now she’s calling you to come to the door....
Do you:
A. Completely lose it, start to bawl , spill the beans in a state of collapse, tell all....
B. Stay cool, shake your head, shrug your shoulders, hands in your pockets, keep schtum.
Over 3 days you stick to your guns and for months afterwards and right up till now.
It’s bone chilling.
I’m convinced now that for some reason long before that fateful day Ana had ceased to be a living thing to both of them. She was some kind a cartoon character who nobody loved or cared about and nobody missed. A baddie from a film.
I don’t know why they thought this but it appears that as much as they planned rigorously to lure her away from home, to violently attack her and sexually assault her they never planned for her to be missed or for there to be a search or Gardai involved. Boy A could have thrown his mask and other evidence in the river or dumped it in a wheelie bin somewhere but he to not have been bothered and just brought it home.
I think neither of them expected to hear any more about it. Why is this?

Because they are two evil physcopaths.

Gadgetman496 · 30-10-2019 04:26PM

Maybe the two bucks will make a contribution to the court poor box like Al Porter did today!

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1030/1087548-al-porter/

Sardonicat · 30-10-2019 04:29PM

^^^^^
They were 12, that's why. That and the fact they had completely dehumanised her in their minds before hand, and, being 12 and possibly (likely ) to have disordered personalities, unable to comprehend that anyone else could take a different view of Ana to themselves.

In short, the lack of foresight of a pubescent child coupled with a pathological lack of empathy.

mcgovern · 30-10-2019 04:32PM

Vicarious Function wrote: »

This statement seems to have been plucked out of the blue with no backup. Further on you say it's based on hearsay. This has no validity and only serves to introduce confusion into the issues being discussed on this thread.

Do you know what privately means? Unless I'm one of the 3 people involved in the conversation then obviously I've no proof or backup?
What exactly have you added to the discussion other than a load of references to other cases?

Neyite · 30-10-2019 04:36PM

splinter65 wrote: »

I think neither of them expected to hear any more about it. Why is this?

I think you hit on it earlier. They had long ceased to regard Ana as a person. Because to them, she had no worth. So by a child's logic, they didn't even consider that she had worth to a great many people or that she may even be missed.

An adult would consider those things and have the logic and knowledge to understand that people would be missed and searched for, but a child won't.

splinter65 · 30-10-2019 04:45PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

^^^^^
They were 12, that's why. That and the fact they had completely dehumanised her in their minds before hand, and, being 12 and possibly (likely ) to have disordered personalities, unable to comprehend that anyone else could take a different view of Ana to themselves.

In short, the lack of foresight of a pubescent child coupled with a pathological lack of empathy.

The psychiatrists have found nothing wrong with boy A.

iamwhoiam · 30-10-2019 04:48PM

Neyite wrote: »

I think you hit on it earlier. They had long ceased to regard Ana as a person. Because to them, she had no worth. So by a child's logic, they didn't even consider that she had worth to a great many people or that she may even be missed.

An adult would consider those things and have the logic and knowledge to understand that people would be missed and searched for, but a child won't.

They probably also had no insight into detective work . They presumed if not caught red handed no one would know it was them . They made no effort to dump evidence despite having to cross a fast flowing Liffey and lots of growth and brambles etc . They were clueless really and walked right into a trap despite their lies .

Gadgetman496 · 30-10-2019 04:58PM

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Thank heavens that nolan is not the judge in this case.

Judge Martin Nolan is due to sentence a female Ex-teacher tomorrow.

Interesting to see how that goes!

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1030/1087525-teacher/

Be right back · 30-10-2019 05:02PM

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Judge Martin Nolan is due to sentence a female Ex-teacher tomorrow.

Interesting to see how that goes!

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1030/1087525-teacher/

Will be interesting. Is she from a good background? Arrested at the airport? Was she trying to do a runner?

tayto lover · 30-10-2019 05:16PM

Neyite wrote: »

I think you hit on it earlier. They had long ceased to regard Ana as a person. Because to them, she had no worth. So by a child's logic, they didn't even consider that she had worth to a great many people or that she may even be missed.

An adult would consider those things and have the logic and knowledge to understand that people would be missed and searched for, but a child won't.

I don’t know.
They were clever enough in their planning. Taking different routes and times returning from the murder house, taking her to it and planning what to say afterwards. These boys are clever schemers in my mind. They didn’t once behave like kids.

Be right back · 30-10-2019 05:18PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I don’t know.
They were clever enough in their planning. Taking different routes and times returning from the murder house, taking her to it and planning what to say afterwards. These boys are clever schemers in my mind. They didn’t once behave like kids.

Makes you wonder just how long they were planning it. May Ana rest in peace..

splinter65 · 30-10-2019 05:43PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

They probably also had no insight into detective work . They presumed if not caught red handed no one would know it was them . They made no effort to dump evidence despite having to cross a fast flowing Liffey and lots of growth and brambles etc . They were clueless really and walked right into a trap despite their lies .

They wanted to kill someone. They wanted to kill violently, destroy someone, smash them up, hear them scream in terror and pain, see the blood, let rip, really be in the moment. Not like the violent video games to which they’d become kinda desensitised.
I don’t think they had any personal dislike for Ana. I don’t think they had any feelings for her one way or the other.
Ana was perfect for this project. First of all she craved friends so much they would have no problem getting her to come out to meet them.
She had no friends. Nobody cared about Ana nobody would miss her nobody would look for her. By the time she was found, if ever, she’d be hard to identify, maybe impossible.
Anyway even if they were questioned about her they had cast iron stories.
Added to that everyone knows you can’t put kids in prison.
Perfect.

Road-Hog · 30-10-2019 06:55PM

Road-Hog wrote: »

Anyone out there recall the Lavinia kerwick (apologies Re spelling)....guy got off a rape conviction based on being from a respectable family.....there was outrage at he time.....

Correction.....I should have said he got off with a suspended sentance.

Hal3000 · 30-10-2019 08:03PM

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Judge Martin Nolan is due to sentence a female Ex-teacher tomorrow.

Interesting to see how that goes!

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1030/1087525-teacher/

I’d happily put my life savings on a suspended sentence. The petition to get him out is fast approach 7k signatures.

dartboardio · 30-10-2019 08:05PM

Interesting alright that Boy A has acknowledged he killed her and Boy B has changed his tune multiple times.

Both should be hung anyway imo.

Extremely hard to watch that prime time without crying!

tuxy · 30-10-2019 08:07PM

dartboardio wrote: »

Both should be hung anyway imo.

Luckly it was not a hung jury in this case and the verdict for both was unanimous.

30-10-2019 08:33PM

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Judge Martin Nolan is due to sentence a female Ex-teacher tomorrow.

Interesting to see how that goes!

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1030/1087525-teacher/

20 quid to the poor box and 2 hour suspended sentence....knowing Nolan

FishHook · 30-10-2019 08:37PM

volchitsa wrote: »

This is the man who roared out in court? Presumably he apologised for that rather than for the boy's actions?

The clown did a slow hand clap too.

Vicarious Function · 30-10-2019 09:49PM

mcgovern wrote: »

Do you know what privately means? Unless I'm one of the 3 people involved in the conversation then obviously I've no proof or backup? ......

If you were privvy to a private conversation, what gives you the right to broadcast it in public on social media?

CollyFlower · 31-10-2019 12:26AM

Thank God Nolan is not the judge in this case.

brendanwalsh · 31-10-2019 12:50AM

I pray every day that those two boys suffer a horrendous life; what they did to that poor girl was awful.

I would advocate for the death penalty to be reintroduced for sick animals like these kids and graham Dwyer

tuxy · 31-10-2019 12:53AM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

I pray every day that those two boys suffer a horrendous life; what they did to that poor girl was awful.

I would advocate for the death penalty to be reintroduced for sick animals like these kids and graham Dwyer

Do you think the availability of such sentences would have prevented this?

fritzelly · 31-10-2019 01:54AM

tuxy wrote: »

Do you think the availability of such sentences would have prevented this?

Not at all, there are individuals who are just wired wrong or easily influenced
But I get what the OP means, it's a horrible case that has no solution

Gadgetman496 · 31-10-2019 01:57AM

fritzelly wrote: »

Not at all, there are individuals who are just wired wrong or easily influenced
But I get what the OP means, it's a horrible case that has no solution

While the system can't change what happened, it can or at least attempt to ensure that those two never get the chance to do it again.

Suckit · 31-10-2019 01:57AM

tuxy wrote: »

Do you think the availability of such sentences would have prevented this?

I know the question wasn't directed at me, and I think I get where you are coming from (obviously I can't know), and I guess I would probably normally agree with you.

But. Tonight I have met a friend who lives abroad and we had a few drinks.....
This came up.

A large part of me (tonight) thinks that if the boys knew that as 12/13 year olds they could be hanged for murder, then not only would they not have gone through with it. They mightn't even have planned it.
I don't for one second believe that everything up to Ana's murder was not planned.

fritzelly · 31-10-2019 02:30AM

Even in countries with the harshest criminal sentences does not stop people doing the worst things imaginable knowing what will happen if caught

tuxy · 31-10-2019 02:42AM

fritzelly wrote: »

Even in countries with the harshest criminal sentences does not stop people doing the worst things imaginable knowing what will happen if caught

But some people would get some comfort knowing these boys would die and possibly suffer in the process.
Not the Kriegel's, they have shone no desire for revenge but there are many on here who would be more content from that outcome.
Once people realise such laws are not a deterrent then there should be focus on other methods to help reduce the possibility of such horrors happening again, I understand it is impossible to completely put an end to such needless disgusting crimes.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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