Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

KWAG2019 · 30-10-2019 11:36AM

Suckit wrote: »

The father sounds like he is very confused and probably the worst person to be dealing with it. From ignoring the Gardaí at the door to shouting in court to falling out with his son and not turning up at the sentencing.

There have been a few references already to Boy B's intelligence. The father may be already unable to deal with him on that level.
The father may have wanted hs son to 'man up'. But by saying it over a year after the fact, won't change things. His father is probably as angered and feels as helpless as the rest of us. Wishing he could go back and change things, catch them etc..
It is also possible he found out more than he bargained for when talking to his son about that days events.

Irish Times today.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sentencing-over-ana-kri%C3%A9gel-murder-surrounded-by-complicated-law-1.4066287

When members of the Oireachtas set down legislation for the sentencing of young offenders in 2001, it appears it never entered their minds that some of those offenders would be murderers barely out of primary school.
As a result, the sentencing of children for murder and other crimes, which could ordinarily attract a lengthy sentence, has been fraught with difficulty ever since.

It seems odd to me that they didn't take these possibilities into account, considering the James Bulger case was 8 years prior to that. They should have at least taken the possibility into account.

Of course they should. 18 years later they haven’t. Judges carry out what the law allows them. Politicians, influenced by various interest groups, make the law. People elect politicians. Past time we had politicians put under pressure.

Kevhog1988 · 30-10-2019 11:47AM

When are they likely to actually be sentenced?

salmocab · 30-10-2019 11:56AM

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Only to the extent that they have been convicted of a crime committed on a victim. The victim is the one to remember and focus on in arriving at a sentence appropriate to the crime committed on the victim.

I don’t think the courts see it that way, it’s about sentencing the convicted and writing a sentence with the word victim in it several times won’t change that.

KWAG2019 · 30-10-2019 12:08PM

salmocab wrote: »

I don’t think the courts see it that way, it’s about sentencing the convicted and writing a sentence with the word victim in it several times won’t change that.

Lol. True. Nor will 392 pages of sentences on boards change anything. I’m pointing to the fact that the only reason there is a focus on the convicted is because there was a victim. I think you are right that courts and the professions around the judicial system don’t see it that way. The problem is they think they are right.

HeidiHeidi · 30-10-2019 12:09PM

theemigrant wrote: »

When are they likely to actually be sentenced?

Next Tuesday

salmocab · 30-10-2019 12:14PM

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Lol. True. Nor will 392 pages of sentences on boards change anything. I’m pointing to the fact that the only reason there is a focus on the convicted is because there was a victim. I think you are right that courts and the professions around the judicial system don’t see it that way. The problem is they think they are right.

Look I know this is crass but the trial is over, as far as the law is concerned Ana got her justice, scant help as that is to the family. Now the court has moved onto the next phase. It seems harsh but for a system to really work it has to be dispassionate. Personally I think anything less than life would be lenient but it’s hard to know how this one will go due to their ages.

suicide_circus · 30-10-2019 12:21PM

Ana has got all the justice she is going to get within our system. There is no sentence these boys can receive that will make up for her death and suffering, even if we went back to hanging; it dosnt fix anything.

Vicarious Function · 30-10-2019 12:25PM

mcgovern wrote: »

Boy Bs dad apologised to the Kriegels privately after the original verdict.

This statement seems to have been plucked out of the blue with no backup. Further on you say it's based on hearsay. This has no validity and only serves to introduce confusion into the issues being discussed on this thread.

Brock Turnpike · 30-10-2019 12:31PM

Vicarious Function wrote: »

This statement seems to have been plucked out of the blue with no backup. Further on you say it's based on hearsay. This has no validity and only serves to introduce confusion into the issues being discussed on this thread.

Agree 100% and was just about to post something similar. McGovern needs to back up what he's saying or retract it.

tayto lover · 30-10-2019 01:50PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

the old GAA defence he comes form a great GAA family

I’ve heard the opposite said for the same reason - “ the lad comes from a dysfunctional family, he never had a chance “.

There’s excuses made for everything.

tayto lover · 30-10-2019 01:52PM

Vicarious Function wrote: »

It's a pity Boy B's father did not attend Court yesterday. Maybe he woud have learned something by being present and hearing what everybody had to say. Regarding a relative making a statement on behalf of Boy B, that would a bit problematic, as Boy B totally does not accept the Guilty Verdict that has been handed down to him. Better not say anything under the circumstances.

Hopefully, Boy B's father will attend the sentencing next Tuesday. Maybe it's an overstatement - but he really needs to Man Up, IMO.

Maybe he’s in denial- “ I couldn’t possibly have reared a son who would do that “.
Looks bad for his ego.

Road-Hog · 30-10-2019 02:15PM

Anyone out there recall the Lavinia kerwick (apologies Re spelling)....guy got off a rape conviction based on being from a respectable family.....there was outrage at he time.....

iamwhoiam · 30-10-2019 02:21PM

Road-Hog wrote: »

Anyone out there recall the Lavinia kerwick (apologies Re spelling)....guy got off a rape conviction based on being from a respectable family.....there was our rage at he time.....

Thank you Lavinia . Thank you for speaking out about the huge injustice

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/lavinia-kerwick-my-life-in-my-20s-and-30s-was-absolutely-destroyed-taken-away-1.3730419%3fmode=amp

jon1981 · 30-10-2019 02:26PM

Not sure why they're dragging the arse out of this. Life for the pair of them. They're over thinking this with it's a "delicate issue". 2 little evil bastards, it's in their DNA.

salmocab · 30-10-2019 02:34PM

jon1981 wrote: »

Not sure why they're dragging the arse out of this. Life for the pair of them. They're over thinking this with it's a "delicate issue". 2 little evil bastards, it's in their DNA.

They’re “dragging the arse out of it” because to do things quickly without all the due processes available means risking extra appeals. The judge doesn’t care that people are baying for blood he’s making sure the system works as that’s his job.

JP Liz V1 · 30-10-2019 02:39PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Do any serve all their life in prison? Disregard anyone who had a heart attack in their 50s or stuff like that.

Is 25 years the max ("life") in Ireland?

salmocab · 30-10-2019 02:51PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is 25 years the max ("life") in Ireland?

No that’s not what life is

manbitesdog · 30-10-2019 02:51PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is 25 years the max ("life") in Ireland?

Life means life, it just doesn’t mean life in prison.

30-10-2019 02:59PM

manbitesdog wrote: »

Life means life, it just doesn’t mean life in prison.

So judges should really say. You have been sentenced to X in prison and for the rest of your life your behaviour will be monitored (or whatever it is that happens when they release them)

Life definitely does not mean life!

salmocab · 30-10-2019 03:05PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

So judges should really say. You have been sentenced to X in prison and for the rest of your life your behaviour will be monitored (or whatever it is that happens when they release them)

Life definitely does not mean life!

It can mean life yes but it would be rare that someone would never be released. Think I read the average is about 22 years

JP Liz V1 · 30-10-2019 03:10PM

salmocab wrote: »

It can mean life yes but it would be rare that someone would never be released. Think I read the average is about 22 years

Some really should never be released, life in prison for taking a life

30-10-2019 03:10PM

Vicarious Function wrote: »

This statement seems to have been plucked out of the blue with no backup. Further on you say it's based on hearsay. This has no validity and only serves to introduce confusion into the issues being discussed on this thread.

Pretty much the entire thread is based on hearsay, gossip, speculation and 'what ifs'. Did B's Dad say this?Is A's Dad a barrister? Did B know more than he says?What will the Judge do?

If you are going to trawl the thread for verification of all statements made, good luck with that.

Be right back · 30-10-2019 03:13PM

John Shaw and Geoffrey Evans are amongst the two longest serving prisoners for murder.

topmanamillion · 30-10-2019 03:17PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is 25 years the max ("life") in Ireland?

In theory life means life.
In practice the parole board reviews a life sentence after 7 years.
Ultimately its the minister for justice that makes the decision but that's a bit of ceremonial role as they're highly unlikely to go against the recommendation of the parole board.

Venables and Thompson spent 8 years in prison for killing Jamie Bulger. Albeit in a different jurisdiction but with similar circumstances i.e a child was the victim and children were the perpetrators.
Boy A will probably spend around 7 years mostly in a juvenile offenders center. Boy B doesn't have the sexual offence charge that Boy A has so may serve a shorter sentence.
Anyone thinking they'll spend decades in jail is deluded.

JP Liz V1 · 30-10-2019 03:19PM

MadYaker wrote: »

From reading the Irish times it sounds like boy a will get a life sentence with a review in ten years, potentially for extension as well as release. Boy b could get something much more lenient, short stint in oberstown followed by a long parole. Though he could also get life but I think that’s unlikely.

I think both boys should get life in prison

salmocab · 30-10-2019 03:21PM

Be right back wrote: »

John Shaw and Geoffrey Evans are amongst the two longest serving prisoners for murder.

Evans is dead, Shaw was in prison from 76 and sentenced in 78 so 41 or 43 years so far

30-10-2019 03:32PM

So say someone gets a life sentence and in 18 years they are released. 2 years after being released they are caught robbing 3 bottles of vodka and found guilty. What happens to them?

30-10-2019 03:34PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I think both boys should get life in prison

They 100% won't.

Yeah_Right · 30-10-2019 03:36PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

So say someone gets a life sentence and in 18 years they are released. 2 years after being released they are caught robbing 3 bottles of vodka and found guilty. What happens to them?

In Ireland? They get told not to do it again and then they get sent home.

30-10-2019 03:37PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

So say someone gets a life sentence and in 18 years they are released. 2 years after being released they are caught robbing 3 bottles of vodka and found guilty. What happens to them?

Back to the clinky. People have been sent back for not signing on at their Garda station in time. You're out under strict guidelines. Break them and your incarceration can be reactivated.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Comments