Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

is_that_so · 29-10-2019 07:17PM

strandroad wrote: »

How can you stand up and say something like this to the family who's daughter he assaulted and murdered. I have no words.

Due process includes this type of character reference, much as some people disagree with it.

manbitesdog · 29-10-2019 07:18PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

This crime has also damaged our society. We cannot ever allow this to happen again, the judge must do his upmost to protect young women across the country by sentencing both of these two men to the maximum permissible sentence. The message has to go out to any child having thoughts or notions or thinking about ever treating another child like this - you will be hunted down and you won’t ever ever get out. Enough is enough. If you don’t behave like a human then you don’t deserve any rights.

Yeah, I don’t think we are going to have a spate of murders perpetrated by children. Crimes like this are extremely rare.

iamwhoiam · 29-10-2019 07:21PM

Thankfully I have no experience of anything like this but I would be interested to know how I might feel
I can’t imagine I could still feel the same about a child of mine who could do this
Would I equally love and hate my son ? Would I question how I reared him , would I question my parenting skills ? Would I be ashamed of him but know I have to support him ? It would be a huge dilemma for me I think

RollieFingers · 29-10-2019 07:47PM

Ana's mother's victim impact statement really is difficult to read, can't even imagine how difficult it was for her folks to put that together.

Just strikes me what an utterly needless and pointless thing for somebody to do to someone else as was done in this case, the rope wouldn't be good enough for those two evil little fcukers. And oul Grandpa A needs to sit down and shut up about his loving, caring and kind grandchild, he's actually a murdering psychopath.

KWAG2019 · 29-10-2019 07:48PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

This crime has also damaged our society. We cannot ever allow this to happen again, the judge must do his upmost to protect young women across the country by sentencing both of these two men to the maximum permissible sentence. The message has to go out to any child having thoughts or notions or thinking about ever treating another child like this - you will be hunted down and you won’t ever ever get out. Enough is enough. If you don’t behave like a human then you don’t deserve any rights.

It could be a landmark case: in the era of me too it raises serious and similar issues. It raises the real issue of narrowing judicial discretion and making the minimum sentence in such cases much longer and ensuring that cannot be set aside. It raises issues of parenting. It raises issues about rights: should some of these be contingent on behaviour. Should some classed as human rights be re designated as civil rights. The fact they may exist in UN charters gives an inertia to reform; some here mistake that inertia for a semi theological infallibility and immutability. There is a lot to it. But the key is that the approach we have had is no longer sufficient in sentencing. Time for serious pressure on politicians. A vigil for Ana regardless of sentence imposed would be a good start.

Hal3000 · 29-10-2019 08:01PM

KWAG2019 wrote: »

It could be a landmark case: in the era of me too it raises serious and similar issues. It raises the real issue of narrowing judicial discretion and making the minimum sentence in such cases much longer and ensuring that cannot be set aside. It raises issues of parenting. It raises issues about rights: should some of these be contingent on behaviour. Should some classed as human rights be re designated as civil rights. The fact they may exist in UN charters gives an inertia to reform; some here mistake that inertia for a semi theological infallibility and immutability. There is a lot to it. But the key is that the approach we have had is no longer sufficient in sentencing. Time for serious pressure on politicians. A vigil for Ana regardless of sentence imposed would be a good start.

Agree with your points, but how sad is it that a young girl had to be savagely killed so politicians can finally realise what people have been saying for years about justice in this country. No more landmark cases I say. If this sentence is any way short I know I won’t be hold a vigil. I’ll be out protesting - demanding that our laws change.

Dufflecoat Fanny · 29-10-2019 08:03PM

god help them the poor people and poor ana

JP Liz V1 · 29-10-2019 08:06PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

Awful. And what’s going to be even worse is the pathetic sentence they’ll most likely get.

I think life should mean life, both inside for all their lives, disgusting scummy fcekers

KWAG2019 · 29-10-2019 08:09PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

Agree with your points, but how sad is it that a young girl had to be savagely killed so politicians can finally realise what people have been saying for years about justice in this country. No more landmark cases I say. If this sentence is any way short I know I won’t be hold a vigil. I’ll be out protesting - demanding that our laws change.

I don’t think politicians have realized. That has yet to come. I think a lot of ideological support for the status quo that operates in the background will have to be dragged into public view on this.

donkeykong5 · 29-10-2019 08:12PM

Stepping Stone wrote: »

I accept that I may be wrong but this is my theory about the grandfather and his staggering arrogance. The man is a retired teacher, so probably enjoyed an audience of pupils almost daily. Good reputation, probably on the committee for every association or group locally. In his own head, someone that is important and looked up to. A well respected man in fact.
When Boy A gets into trouble grandad decides that he needs to be there. After all, his opinion is worth so much! Family reputation in tatters, today was his opportunity of setting the record straight and letting everyone know that in his expert opinion his grandson is an unfortunate victim of circumstances. Poor loving child is suicidal and the family are suffering without him. Obviously he’s sorry for Ana’s family but not as sorry as he is for himself and his ego.

F.....him.

29-10-2019 08:16PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I think life should mean life, both inside for all their lives, disgusting scummy fcekers

I agree. Where does the phrase “life” come from anyway? It’s the most dishonest use of a word and the law deems it an acceptable lie.

salmocab · 29-10-2019 08:24PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I agree. Where does the phrase “life” come from anyway? It’s the most dishonest use of a word and the law deems it an acceptable lie.

Because it can mean up to life, there is no set release date.

Nermal · 29-10-2019 08:31PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Due process includes this type of character reference, much as some people disagree with it.

It currently does, it doesn’t have to though. I think this stuff and victim impact statements are completely irrelevant. Decide the sentence on the same set of facts that decided guilt.

iamwhoiam · 29-10-2019 08:34PM

Nermal wrote: »

It currently does, it doesn’t have to though. I think this stuff and victim impact statements are completely irrelevant. Decide the sentence on the same set of facts that decided guilt.

I definitely think the victim or their family should be heard in court . They should have a voice and the murderers should hear them in this case

29-10-2019 08:36PM

salmocab wrote: »

Because it can mean up to life, there is no set release date.

Do any serve all their life in prison? Disregard anyone who had a heart attack in their 50s or stuff like that.

tayto lover · 29-10-2019 08:39PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I definitely think the victim or their fzmily should be heard in court . They should have a voice and the murderers should hear them in this case

Plus the fact that other little potential murderers can hear how devastating the effects are on families and friends. Might do some good.

cgcsb · 29-10-2019 08:42PM

For the grandfather, he has also lost his grandson. I mean he'd be dead to me if I were him, it would be a mourning of sorts. Maybe he should've said that instead of singing boy a's praises. I think people like boy a, John venebals etc. Should be executed, it's clear to every psychologist and social worker these people meet that they are so far beyond rehabilitation that there's no point in handing down any other punishment. People who commit lesser crimes should be required to work, something manual preferably. Society would be a lot more harmonious.

Stallingrad · 29-10-2019 08:48PM

That VIS was absolutely heart breaking.

Rage will achieve nothing worthwhile long term.

If anything comes from this I hope that parents talk to their boys, get off their screens and engage. Talk to them about this case and their responsibilities as men toward women, sexuality, respect and empathy.

It begins and ends with parenting.

Purple Mountain · 29-10-2019 08:50PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It was so very insensitive .

Shut your mouth grandad.
An innocent girl died because of your flesh and blood.

tuxy · 29-10-2019 08:51PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Do any serve all their life in prison? Disregard anyone who had a heart attack in their 50s or stuff like that.

In a way yes, they will be out on licence for the rest of there lives assuming a life sentence is given.

Hal3000 wrote: »

I’ll be out protesting - demanding that our laws change.

That's a lie but I'd be happy if you prove me wrong.

tayto lover · 29-10-2019 08:54PM

I wonder what the odds are on two murdering little sods being in the same class in the same school and capable of hatching a plan to murder a fellow pupil and then carrying it out.
The last similar murder must have been the James Bulger murder in the early 1980’s although the child was not even at school.
Anyone remember anything similar?

spurious · 29-10-2019 09:08PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Would you describe a grandchild convicted of sexual assault and murder as "kind and loving"?

The way he describes his grandson seems to indicate he is missing quite a few screws and is badly disconnected from reality.

It is quite possible Boy A is 'kind and loving' to his family and still have done what he did.

THAT is the really disconcerting thing about this case. They were not weirdo freakish types hanging about. They were, to all intents and purposes, 'normal' kids.

They still did what they did and you can be sure there are others out there like them.

iamwhoiam · 29-10-2019 09:13PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder what the odds are on two murdering little sods being in the same class in the same school and capable of hatching a plan to murder a fellow pupil and then carrying it out.
The last similar murder must have been the James Bulger murder in the early 1980’s although the child was not even at school.
Anyone remember anything similar?

Mary Bell and Norma Bell . ( not related )
Have a read about them

tuxy · 29-10-2019 09:34PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Mary Bell and Norma Bell . ( not related )
Have a read about them

Disturbing case but I think he was looking for examples where more than one young child conspired to kill another.Norma Bell was acquitted.
I'm drawing a blank, it's far more common for someone to act alone in these horrific cases.

Iwouldinmesack · 29-10-2019 09:42PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder what the odds are on two murdering little sods being in the same class in the same school and capable of hatching a plan to murder a fellow pupil and then carrying it out.
The last similar murder must have been the James Bulger murder in the early 1980’s although the child was not even at school.
Anyone remember anything similar?

James Bulger was early 90s. 93 I believe.

donkeykong5 · 29-10-2019 09:48PM

It's on primetime now

cgcsb · 29-10-2019 09:51PM

Stallingrad wrote: »

That VIS was absolutely heart breaking.

Rage will achieve nothing worthwhile long term.

If anything comes from this I hope that parents talk to their boys, get off their screens and engage. Talk to them about this case and their responsibilities as men toward women, sexuality, respect and empathy.

It begins and ends with parenting.

Oh do spare us the Helen Lovejoy spiel. He didn't kill her because he watched a horror movie or pornography, he killed her because he's a little psycho people like him have always been and always will and it's nothing to do with some sexist telling them they have responsibility based on their gender

cgcsb · 29-10-2019 09:53PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder what the odds are on two murdering little sods being in the same class in the same school and capable of hatching a plan to murder a fellow pupil and then carrying it out.
The last similar murder must have been the James Bulger murder in the early 1980’s although the child was not even at school.
Anyone remember anything similar?

You only need one sicko and one idiot

donkeykong5 · 29-10-2019 09:59PM

cgcsb wrote: »

You only need one sicko and one idiot

Or two scumbag murderers.

kravmaga · 29-10-2019 10:02PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

10 years will be too lenient and appealed

20 would be probably be appealed as too harsh (yeah i know)

probably somewhere between the two

I can see them getting 15 years each, thats just my opinion

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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