Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

volchitsa · 29-10-2019 05:39PM

splinter65 wrote: »

I see boy b has been abandoned now by his father who was defended here for weeks by one persistent poster as the greatest parent of all time.

Any chance of a link to this please, I haven't really come across mention of any of the boys' families except the grandfather of Boy A?

(Not doubting it, but would like to know more).

suicide_circus · 29-10-2019 05:39PM

10 years will be too lenient and appealed

20 would be probably be appealed as too harsh (yeah i know)

probably somewhere between the two

wrangler · 29-10-2019 05:41PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

Be ready to be outraged when you see the sentence. Just remember we live in a system that jails garlic importers for 6 years and let’s people who view child abuse material walk free with suspended sentences. Our minister is not concerned with protecting our children and I imagine this case will be no different.

The people here who used to defend the justice system are gone because even they know how bad things have gotten in Ireland.

Every aspect of the public service is fecked up at the moment, judge could hand down anything
~
#Public disservice

iamwhoiam · 29-10-2019 05:44PM

volchitsa wrote: »

Any chance of a link to this please, I haven't really come across mention of any of the boys' families except the grandfather of Boy A?

(Not doubting it, but would like to know more).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50210221?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world&link_location=live-reporting-story

The grandfather of Boy A said his family offered "sincerest regret and remorse" to the Kriégel family.

He described Mrs Kriégel's statement as eloquent and passionate.

He said Boy A "was and is a loving, caring and kind child" and that there "will be a great gap in all our (family) lives" depending on the sentence.

He said he hoped in the future to have a positive relationship with his grandson.

A lawyer for Boy B told the sentence hearing that his client disputed the jury's verdict.

'Remorse' for 'inactivity'
He said the boy and his father had fallen out over what happened and that explained the father's absence at the hearing.

He said the boy was not a risk for re-offending and was being treated for occasional suicidal tendencies.

tuxy · 29-10-2019 05:47PM

wrangler wrote: »

Every aspect of the public service is fecked up at the moment, judge could hand down anything
~
#Public disservice

Are you saying it's possible for him to give a harsher sentence than life?
I don't see how.

Suckit · 29-10-2019 05:51PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

A lawyer for Boy B told the sentence hearing that his client disputed the jury's verdict.

'Remorse' for 'inactivity'
He said the boy and his father had fallen out over what happened and that explained the father's absence at the hearing.

He said the boy was not a risk for re-offending and was being treated for occasional suicidal tendencies.

That's a very tough one to get my head around.

On one hand I believe it to be a good thing that the father has not turned up, as many asked early on in this thread, how could he stand by him etc..

On the other hand, He has pretty much hung his son out to dry by not turning up having possibly made any chance of appeal a little more difficult. But he may have got the son to admit things he himself didn't want to believe. We may never know.

In any case, that father was struggling from the outset with his handling of this, which I guess is understandable. But ignoring the Garda at his door suggested he wasn't the brightest.

wrangler · 29-10-2019 05:51PM

tuxy wrote: »

Are you saying it's possible for him to give a harsher sentence than life?
I don't see how.

I'm saying the PS has let us down day after day, the judge could do anything.
As hal 33000 says be prepared to be enraged

volchitsa · 29-10-2019 05:52PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50210221?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world&link_location=live-reporting-story

A lawyer for Boy B told the sentence hearing that his client disputed the jury's verdict.

'Remorse' for 'inactivity'
He said the boy and his father had fallen out over what happened and that explained the father's absence at the hearing.[/I]

He said the boy was not a risk for re-offending and was being treated for occasional suicidal tendencies.

Thanks for that. Very odd isn't it, going from one extreme to the other like that.

I actually wonder if the father isn't part of whatever abnormalities led Boy B to be the person he is. The father doesn't seem to be up for assuming responsibilities either it seems. Presumably he wouldn't have to say anything, but he could still be present all the same. Or done like the grandfather of Boy A, apologised to Ana's family.

Suckit · 29-10-2019 06:04PM

As for either of their 'remorse'. I don't believe it, not for a second. They are sorry that they were caught that is all. The two of them pleaded not guilty, lied all the way through, left Ana there for 3 days without saying a word and only now at their sentencing are they showing any sign that they are unhappy as to how things have turned out.

Stepping Stone · 29-10-2019 06:26PM

I accept that I may be wrong but this is my theory about the grandfather and his staggering arrogance. The man is a retired teacher, so probably enjoyed an audience of pupils almost daily. Good reputation, probably on the committee for every association or group locally. In his own head, someone that is important and looked up to. A well respected man in fact.
When Boy A gets into trouble grandad decides that he needs to be there. After all, his opinion is worth so much! Family reputation in tatters, today was his opportunity of setting the record straight and letting everyone know that in his expert opinion his grandson is an unfortunate victim of circumstances. Poor loving child is suicidal and the family are suffering without him. Obviously he’s sorry for Ana’s family but not as sorry as he is for himself and his ego.

tuxy · 29-10-2019 06:35PM

wrangler wrote: »

I'm saying the PS has let us down day after day, the judge could do anything.
As hal 33000 says be prepared to be enraged

If both of them don't get a life sentence I will be angry at the judge.
If they do and are out soon after the first review I will angry at the parole board and minister for justice.
I'm not going to be angry at either until I think they have failed society.(I know they have in other cases but we are talking about this case here)

There should be at least two general elections before their release. I can try to vote based on changes to the justice system. Unfortunately I can't see it being such a pressing matter for the general population but what more can I/we do?

wrangler · 29-10-2019 06:40PM

tuxy wrote: »

If both of them don't get a life sentence I will be angry at the judge.
If they do and are out soon after the first review I will angry at the parole board and minister for justice.
I'm not going to be angry at either until I think they have failed society.(I know they have in other cases but we are talking about this case here)

There should be at least two general elections before their release. I can try to vote based on changes to the justice system. Unfortunately I can't see it being such a pressing matter for the general population but what more can I/we do?

,

It amazes me the sense of entitlement some children have, some grow out of it and some are like this pair,
I hope they suffer some day as ana did

tayto lover · 29-10-2019 06:47PM

wrangler wrote: »

,

It amazes me the sense of entitlement some children have, some grow out of it and some are like this pair,
I hope they suffer some day as ana did

I don’t want to see people suffer.
I just want them removed from society for a long time so that no more people suffer at their hands.
There is too much suffering already.

strandroad · 29-10-2019 06:47PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

He said Boy A "was and is a loving, caring and kind child"

How can you stand up and say something like this to the family who's daughter he assaulted and murdered. I have no words.

iamwhoiam · 29-10-2019 06:49PM

strandroad wrote: »

How can you stand up and say something like this to the family who's daughter he assaulted and murdered. I have no words.

It was so very insensitive .

FishHook · 29-10-2019 06:51PM

volchitsa wrote: »

Thanks for that. Very odd isn't it, going from one extreme to the other like that.

I actually wonder if the father isn't part of whatever abnormalities led Boy B to be the person he is. The father doesn't seem to be up for assuming responsibilities either it seems. Presumably he wouldn't have to say anything, but he could still be present all the same. Or done like the grandfather of Boy A, apologised to Ana's family.

Probably just as well that he did not turn up. He behaved like a buffoon of the highest order during the trial.

pjohnson · 29-10-2019 06:52PM

volchitsa wrote: »

Thanks for that. Very odd isn't it, going from one extreme to the other like that.

I actually wonder if the father isn't part of whatever abnormalities led Boy B to be the person he is. The father doesn't seem to be up for assuming responsibilities either it seems. Presumably he wouldn't have to say anything, but he could still be present all the same. Or done like the grandfather of Boy A, apologised to Ana's family.

Pfft what apology? He was busy gushing about how great his grandson was. He'd have done less harm to Ana's family if he said nothing.

manbitesdog · 29-10-2019 06:55PM

strandroad wrote: »

How can you stand up and say something like this to the family who's daughter he assaulted and murdered. I have no words.

He was talking to the court.

iamwhoiam · 29-10-2019 06:57PM

manbitesdog wrote: »

He was talking to the court.

Anas family were in court . His grandson viciously murdered their daughter . It was grossly insensitive

Ulysses Gaze · 29-10-2019 06:59PM

Suckit wrote: »

That's a very tough one to get my head around.

On one hand I believe it to be a good thing that the father has not turned up, as many asked early on in this thread, how could he stand by him etc..

On the other hand, He has pretty much hung his son out to dry by not turning up having possibly made any chance of appeal a little more difficult. But he may have got the son to admit things he himself didn't want to believe. We may never know.

In any case, that father was struggling from the outset with his handling of this, which I guess is understandable. But ignoring the Garda at his door suggested he wasn't the brightest.

The cynic in me thinks this could be a ploy to garner sympathy with the judge.

"This trial has destroyed not one family, but another as well. He has lost his father."

manbitesdog · 29-10-2019 07:03PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Anas family were in court . His grandson viciously murdered their daughter . It was grossly insensitive

Of course these kind of comments were going to be made at the sentencing hearing. Boy A’s family are reportedly just an ordinary, supportive family. They are probably horrified by the crime he committed.

salmocab · 29-10-2019 07:04PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Anas family were in court . His grandson viciously murdered their daughter . It was grossly insensitive

By that metric though nobody should speak up for them, like it or not they have rights and someone speaking up for the guilty regards character is pretty standard. What these two did doesn’t mean they should be treated any differently by the court.

iamwhoiam · 29-10-2019 07:08PM

salmocab wrote: »

By that metric though nobody should speak up for them, like it or not they have rights and someone speaking up for the guilty regards character is pretty standard. What these two did doesn’t mean they should be treated any differently by the court.

It still goes against the grain for the ordinary folk reading it .” A kind and caring “ child does not viciously beat a girl to death

salmocab · 29-10-2019 07:10PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It still goes against the grain for the ordinary folk reading it .” A kind and caring “ child does not viciously beat a girl to death

No certainly not but he’s giving how he feels the child is at home. This happens all the time it might be unsavoury but it’s the way things are and to change from the norm opens the system up to appeals

Road-Hog · 29-10-2019 07:11PM

manbitesdog wrote: »

He was talking to the court.

What sort of arrogant attitude is that.....he was talking to the court...so that gives you Carte Blanche/immunity to say anything you like in front of who ever......I hope you are being sarasctic....!

Hal3000 · 29-10-2019 07:11PM

manbitesdog wrote: »

Of course these kind of comments were going to be made at the sentencing hearing. Boy A’s family are reportedly just an ordinary, supportive family. They are probably horrified by the crime he committed.

This crime has also damaged our society. We cannot ever allow this to happen again, the judge must do his upmost to protect young women across the country by sentencing both of these two men to the maximum permissible sentence. The message has to go out to any child having thoughts or notions or thinking about ever treating another child like this - you will be hunted down and you won’t ever ever get out. Enough is enough. If you don’t behave like a human then you don’t deserve any rights.

abff · 29-10-2019 07:13PM

The statement by boy A's grandfather includes the following:

He said the period between the ages of 11 and 13 can be a difficult time for boys, both mentally and physically. He said boys at this age can be difficult for parents and teachers to manage but the majority of them remain “unaffected by new circumstances”.

The man said his grandson was “one of the majority”, who loved practical subjects such as art, science and woodwork, and that nothing pleased him more than preparing detailed drawings and making models.

“I am personally heartbroken that my much-loved grandson could have been involved in something like this,” he said, adding that his grandchild was a loving, caring and kind child, who never showed aggression or ill-temper.

He said Boy A was much-loved by his parents and grandparents.

“There will be a major gap in all our lives without his constant presence. Our lives have been turned upside down, all going through huge emotional turmoil and loss,” he continued.

I think it would be better if he just kept his thoughts to himself. I know he's trying to support a family member, but surely any modicum of decency but have led him to just say nothing.

wrangler · 29-10-2019 07:14PM

salmocab wrote: »

No certainly not but he’s giving how he feels the child is at home. This happens all the time it might be unsavoury but it’s the way things are and to change from the norm opens the system up to appeals

That's true, All we can hope is the judge doesn't listen to anything in support of the boys.
What they did was absolutely indefensible

is_that_so · 29-10-2019 07:14PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Pfft what apology? He was busy gushing about how great his grandson was. He'd have done less harm to Ana's family if he said nothing.

Just in case you hadn't noticed the grandfather wasn't on trial. He's fully entitled to comment on what his grandson was like outside of this awful crime.

manbitesdog · 29-10-2019 07:15PM

Road-Hog wrote: »

What sort of arrogant attitude is that.....he was talking to the court...so that give you Carte Blanche/immunity to say anything you like in front of who ever......I hope you are being sarasctic....!

Usually you just answer the questions put to you truthfully.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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