Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Hal3000 · 28-10-2019 08:31AM

tayto lover wrote: »

I never said he did. I was talking about many judicial decisions that seem very lenient for the seriousness of the crimes.

Agree. I think a lot of posters here are going to be very angry when they see the sentence. Our justice system has form in being more concerned for perpetrators as opposed to victims. If I’m proven wrong I’ll be happy but it’s highly unlikely in this country.

Road-Hog · 28-10-2019 08:37AM

<snip>

So what are people’s guess as to what these two ‘degenerates’ will be handed tomorrow.....less than 10 years....which will comprise of 3 in the oberstown place and then 7 in a real prison when they reach 18....? Parole board will then based on assessments at year 7 deem them reformed and no longer a threat, give them new identities and release them back to society

RoryMac · 28-10-2019 09:19AM

How long have each of the boys spent in Oberstown already? That will come off the sentence too I guess.

I'd say 10 years is probably the max they'll get and won't serve anything like that unfortunately

salmocab · 28-10-2019 09:20AM

Road-Hog wrote: »

So what are people’s guess as to what these two ‘degenerates’ will be handed tomorrow.....less than 10 years....which will comprise of 3 in the oberstown place and then 7 in a real prison when they reach 18....? Parole board will then based on assessments at year 7 deem them reformed and no longer a threat, give them new identities and release them back to society

I think they will be getting life sentences but with some caveats due to age they will probably have to do extra assessments.
You don’t put degenerates in inverted commas because that suggests you don’t think they are which I assume isn’t what you were aiming at.

pjohnson · 28-10-2019 09:21AM

Road-Hog wrote: »

So what are people’s guess as to what these two ‘degenerates’ will be handed tomorrow.....less than 10 years....which will comprise of 3 in the oberstown place and then 7 in a real prison when they reach 18....? Parole board will then based on assessments at year 7 deem them reformed and no longer a threat, give them new identities and release them back to society

Gotta keep the angels safe.

Road-Hog · 28-10-2019 09:34AM

salmocab wrote: »

I think they will be getting life sentences but with some caveats due to age they will probably have to do extra assessments.
You don’t put degenerates in inverted commas because that suggests you don’t think they are which I assume isn’t what you were aiming at.

Just to clarify, the inverted commas are put there in sarcasm as some posters have hinted that I’m being inhumane by referring to the boys inappropriately

Lackey · 28-10-2019 09:59AM

tayto lover wrote: »

I never said he did. I was talking about many judicial decisions that seem very lenient for the seriousness of the crimes.

A petition and Facebook page that has been recently set up ‘calling the resignation of ‘judge’ Martin Nolan’ was shared with me this morning.
Makes for grim reading.

The two in this case will be out soon
Anyone who thinks they’ll ‘serve time’ is fooling themselves.

Hal3000 · 28-10-2019 10:11AM

Lackey wrote: »

A petition and Facebook page that has been recently set up ‘calling the resignation of ‘judge’ Martin Nolan’ was shared with me this morning.
Makes for grim reading.

The two in this case will be out soon
Anyone who thinks they’ll ‘serve time’ is fooling themselves.

I’ll have no problem signing that.

Garibaldi? · 28-10-2019 10:17AM

Horrific incidents like Ana's murder invariably have another consequence.They draw from the woodwork violent and dysfunctional personalities who would like to do violence with impunity. Or better still to have others do it on their behalf. Witness the ugly, immoderate and high inappropriate comments that surface on social media sites. These are of no comfort to the tragically bereaved. Such individuals generally back off like scalded cats when seriously called out on their extreme language. As soon as they actually have something to lose!

Hal3000 · 28-10-2019 10:20AM

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Horrific incidents like Ana's murder invariably have another consequence.They draw from the woodwork violent and dysfunctional personalities who would like to do violence with impunity. Or better still to have others do it on their behalf. Witness the ugly, immoderate and high inappropriate comments that surface on social media sites. These are of no comfort to the tragically bereaved. Such individuals generally back off like scalded cats when seriously called out on their extreme language. As soon as they actually have something to lose!

Fair enough and I agree that we shouldn’t engage in savagery, but this anger is also fueled by a total lack of accountability and justice in the Irish system. Enough is enough. We can’t go on like this any longer. We must have accountability for serious - violent crimes.

iamwhoiam · 28-10-2019 10:39AM

Hal3000 wrote: »

Fair enough and I agree that we shouldn’t engage in savagery, but this anger is also fueled by a total lack of accountability and justice in the Irish system. Enough is enough. We can’t go on like this any longer. We must have accountability for serious - violent crimes.

And accountability for corporate crimes too . People are angry and rightly so about lack of justice and accountability on many levels

KWAG2019 · 28-10-2019 11:37AM

Hal3000 wrote: »

Fair enough and I agree that we shouldn’t engage in savagery, but this anger is also fueled by a total lack of accountability and justice in the Irish system. Enough is enough. We can’t go on like this any longer. We must have accountability for serious - violent crimes.

The problem isn’t just accountability. It’s the knee jerk ideological defence of a system that has failed countless families and society. It’s the attempt to stifle debate with melodramatic pronouncements and mis characterization of those seeking change by focusing on extreme views.

Rather than petitions about judges those who are unhappy with the system must visit or contact their TDs in large numbers. And it must be an election issue. The groups which influence policy and have created this system must be held up to transparent scrutiny. They may be funded by the taxpayer. They may have ideological biases and goals that need to be made clear. They may benefit in some manner from the system as is. Whatever happens on Tuesday this debate must never go away again.

donkeykong5 · 28-10-2019 02:06PM

Lackey wrote: »

A petition and Facebook page that has been recently set up ‘calling the resignation of ‘judge’ Martin Nolan’ was shared with me this morning.
Makes for grim reading.

The two in this case will be out soon
Anyone who thinks they’ll ‘serve time’ is fooling themselves.

I signed that petition ages ago. Absolutely nothing was done about it. He still sits in court daily and either let's paedophiles off with a suspended sentence or a friendly warning.

abff · 28-10-2019 02:09PM

donkeykong5 wrote: »

I signed that petition ages ago. Absolutely nothing was done about it. He still sits in court daily and either let's paedophiles off with a suspended sentence or a friendly warning.

Are you saying that he has a reputation for being too light on criminals when sentencing?

jay1988 · 28-10-2019 02:24PM

abff wrote: »
m
Are you saying that he has a reputation for being too light on criminals when sentencing?

Its quite well known that he has let many child sex offenders off with very light sentences/suspended sentences.

A bloke i used to work with was caught by gardai in the act of downloading child porn when they raided his house, also found a lot more already downloaded material, this joker let him off without ever seeing the inside of a jail cell because he had a good work history and came from a good family.

He's a disgrace.

donkeykong5 · 28-10-2019 02:25PM

abff wrote: »
m
Are you saying that he has a reputation for being too light on criminals when sentencing?

6 years for a man who messed around with paying vat on garlic produce. Yet paedophiles and their ilk let off constantly with warnings. Something wrong there

Hal3000 · 28-10-2019 02:25PM

donkeykong5 wrote: »

I signed that petition ages ago. Absolutely nothing was done about it. He still sits in court daily and either let's paedophiles off with a suspended sentence or a friendly warning.

This is a new one that has only been started 4 days ago. He won’t be removed but if anything this might get our beloved justice minister to look to stop giving suspended sentences and change the laws for viewing child abuse material and violent crimes.

donkeykong5 · 28-10-2019 02:27PM

jay1988 wrote: »

Its quite well known that he has let many child sex offenders off with very light sentences/suspended sentences.

A bloke i used to work with was caught by gardai in the act of downloading child porn when they raided his house, also found a lot more already downloaded material, this joker let him off without ever seeing the inside of a jail cell because he had a good work history and came from a good family.

He's a disgrace.

Absolutely nothing done about petition from 4 years ago either. Wonder why

jay1988 · 28-10-2019 02:28PM

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-caught-downloading-child-porn-when-gardai-raided-home-gets-suspended-sentence-37980412.html

This is the one i was talking about.

wakka12 · 28-10-2019 02:36PM

I dont see how anyone could think theres any other viable other option but life imprisonment for those boys, or at least a mental institution. There is no rehabilitation possible for somebody capable of committing something like that

iamwhoiam · 28-10-2019 02:39PM

wakka12 wrote: »

I dont see how anyone could think theres any other viable other option but life imprisonment for those boys, or at least a mental institution. There is no rehabilitation possible for somebody capable of committing something like that

There has been no suggestion that either of the boys are mentally ill as far as I know ?

Hoboo · 28-10-2019 03:41PM

KWAG2019 wrote: »

I haven’t seen anyone call for the law to be ignored. Changed perhaps. The place the law was ignored in this case was when two criminals lured an innocent young child to a deserted house bear her sexually assaulted her and then beat her to death.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt about “Impartial” and assume you meant the opposite.

Random juries are there to ensure that the common sense of ordinary people is applied to determine guilt or innocence. They have judges to direct and guide about the law. If you hold ordinary people in contempt then juries are to be derided.

We all know the story, no need for the emotion.

People are saying he shouldn't be concerned with the boys dignity nor offer them the protection of their dignity that the law affords them. That's ignoring the law. And the fact he explained this has the mob out.

I meant impartial. When applying law a judge must be impartial to all concerned. Can't see the confusion.

Jury's are not used to ensure common sense prevails, it's to ensure democracy prevails. This thread alone reflects how peoples minds work, and their inability to understand the system let alone comprehend or apply law. And far too emotional.

Hal3000 · 28-10-2019 04:22PM

Hoboo wrote: »

We all know the story, no need for the emotion.

People are saying he shouldn't be concerned with the boys dignity nor offer them the protection of their dignity that the law affords them. That's ignoring the law. And the fact he explained this has the mob out.

I meant impartial. When applying law a judge must be impartial to all concerned. Can't see the confusion.

Jury's are not used to ensure common sense prevails, it's to ensure democracy prevails. This thread alone reflects how peoples minds work, and their inability to understand the system let alone comprehend or apply law. And far too emotional.

You really think judges in this country are impartial?

Let me just throw these nuggets of Irish judicial wisdom out there.

Quite recently a man who downloaded large amounts of child abuse material was given a suspended sentence because the judge ruled he had already felt enough shame by losing his family and position in the community. Here’s another, a man who assaulted his partner was let go free because English was not his first language and this would make prison difficult for him... I just love how people here try to quote the workings of the judicial system and somehow think that judges apply any of its rational here in Ireland. Our judicial system is a farce, we all know it and I suspect this case won’t be any different in how it’s sentenced.

tuxy · 28-10-2019 04:27PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

Our judicial system is a farce, we all know it and I suspect this case won’t be any different in how it’s sentenced.

If so why are our crime rates extremely low by world standards and even lower than average by EU standards?
No country has it perfect but some do have it better than others and it would seem Ireland is one of the better ones.

Hal3000 · 28-10-2019 04:32PM

tuxy wrote: »

If so why are our crime rates extremely low by world standards and even lower than average by EU standards?
No country has it perfect but some do have it better than others and it would seem Ireland is one of the better ones.

How is the crime rate directly connected to the judicial system ? There are hundreds of factors as to why we could have a lower crime rate against the rest of the world? Our judicial system is a farce because we hand out constant suspended sentences. If it’s so robust then why do we have people walking the streets with 100+ convictions? Why do we let people who download and view large amounts of child abuse material walk away without any prison time ? If you can answer those questions then prove me wrong !

tuxy · 28-10-2019 04:36PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

How is the crime rate directly connected to the judicial system ? There are hundreds of factors as to why we could have a lower crime rate against the rest of the world? Our judicial system is a farce because we hand out constant suspended sentences. If it’s so robust then why do we have people walking the streets with 100+ convictions? Why do we let people who download and view large amounts of child abuse material walk away without any prison time ? If you can answer those questions then prove me wrong !

Exactly, we have focused on other areas that are more important than the judicial system. There is a limited amount of resources available to any one country. The judicial system needs work but should not take priority over other more important areas.

BDI · 28-10-2019 04:37PM

tuxy wrote: »

If so why are our crime rates extremely low by world standards and even lower than average by EU standards?
No country has it perfect but some do have it better than others and it would seem Ireland is one of the better ones.

Hasn’t it been proven that we are fairly fast and lose in the recording crime stats department.

Hal3000 · 28-10-2019 04:39PM

tuxy wrote: »

Exactly, we have focused on other areas that are more important than the judicial system. There is a limited amount of resources available to any one country. The judicial system needs work but should not take priority over other more important areas.

No one is saying it should take priority. I’m saying they should sentence accordingly and stop letting people wrangle out sentences.

tuxy · 28-10-2019 04:44PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

No one is saying it should take priority. I’m saying they should sentence accordingly and stop letting people wrangle out sentences.

That would involve diverting large amounts of money that is currently going to one area being pumped into the prisons systems instead. Prisons are currently full so we would need to build more and it consts €100,000 a year on average to house one prisoner.
Increasing prisoner population size has not worked in other countries, if Ireland can come up with a new system where it does work then it may be worth funnelling more money into the prison system but even the research for that won't be cheap.

Hal3000 · 28-10-2019 04:46PM

tuxy wrote: »

That would involve diverting large amounts of money that is currently going to one area being pumped into the prisons systems instead. Prisons are currently full so we would need to build more and it consts €100,000 a year on average to house one prisoner.
Increasing prisoner population size has not worked in other countries, if Ireland can come up with a new system where it does work then it may be worth funnelling more money into the prison system but even the research for that won't be cheap.

So it comes down to money not justice. Thank you for proving my point.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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