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Turkish forces have started bombing and attacking Kurdish people in Syria

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    #62
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    its up to the people of the middle east to get their house in order


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    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    its up to the people of the middle east to get their house in order

    Right, so after what Europe did there in the last 100 years, and what US has destabilised there in the last 50 you think that it is ripe for stable government?

    You reap what you sow and the west has been interfering there for far too long to simply wash hands


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    #64
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    so the solution is to continue meddling until....until when?


    there's over 10,000 years of civilization in the region, 100 years is a drop in the ocean.


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    #65
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    its up to the people of the middle east to get their house in order

    Ya so if you're in your gaff and lads from another estate keep coming in and thrashing your gaff it's up to you to get your house in order. It's not their fault at all. That sound about right ya.


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    #66
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    so the solution is to continue meddling until....until when?


    there's over 10,000 years of civilization in the region, 100 years is a drop in the ocean.

    One solution is not to let the people you've been fighting with for the last few year's to get massacred. Just a small thing like that.


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    #67
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    ollkiller wrote: »
    Ya so if you're in your gaff and lads from another estate keep coming in and thrashing your gaff it's up to you to get your house in order. It's not their fault at all. That sound about right ya.

    worst analogy ever.


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    #68
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    ollkiller wrote: »
    One solution is not to let the people you've been fighting with for the last few year's to get massacred. Just a small thing like that.

    look i'm sure whoever replaces Trumpy will flood the region with troops again and then everyone will be happy. oh, wait...


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    #69
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    look i'm sure whoever replaces Trumpy will flood the region with troops again and then everyone will be happy. oh, wait...

    It's got nothing to do with flooding the troops in the area. It's pretty simple. I agree with pulling american troops out of the middle east. But do it in the right way. Are you seriously telling me America could not have stopped Turkey from staging this invasion. Against people who have fought alongside them against a common enemy for years. All it will do will be to create more terrorists.

    Sure feck it, who cares about people dying for tin pot dictators looking to grab more land for whatever political/religious crap that will get them more votes.


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    #70
    lleti
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 271 ✭✭lleti


    The middle east is an absolute mess and will never have peace. All these religions and ethnic groups had power over all the same land at different stages.


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    #71
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    lleti wrote: »
    The middle east is an absolute mess and will never have peace. All these religions and ethnic groups had power over all the same land at different stages.

    Well aren't you the Oracle himself. Back in the 1980's could you imagine peace in Northern Ireland. Sure why bother doing anything so.


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    #72
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    of course this sudden withdrawal is stupid. i'm making a more general point about how America is expected to keep the peace all over the world but is also maligned for doing so.


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    #73
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    of course this sudden withdrawal is stupid. i'm making a more general point about how America is expected to keep the peace all over the world but is also maligned for doing so.

    You have a point there. it shouldn't be the world police. It got itself into this position by trying to be world police for years. If the new policy is to roll back from this just do it the right way. Any withdrawal is going to have negative consequences but this type of withdrawal is just stupid 101.


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    #74
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    its up to the people of the middle east to get their house in order

    I'd be inclined to agree, but unfortunately there are a number of contributing factors which are making this nearly next to impossible.

    They are:
    Iran/Saudi proxy war - This has been going on for years now, and nearly every war in ME can trace support back to one of these regional powers. Note: Iran is winning.
    Arab Spring - triggering event for a lot of changes/war. Libya and Syria are still in a state of Civil war as a result.
    Foreign supply of arms - Proving ground for weapons, as the area is constantly at war. What better place to safely test your weapons?
    Foreign support of political leaders - Sadam used to be a US friendly enemy, as was Iran at one point. One thing to note though is that removing puppets when they are no longer useful or keeping the ones that are useful is proving more and more difficult to do. probably because of social media and faster ways of communicating.
    Oil - The fact that the whole area is sitting on the worlds most easily accessible oil supply and the worlds oil dependent countries want to keep them fighting. If they were to ever unite, it would basically be the end of Petrodollar recycling. Note: US invaded Iraq when they began to sell oil in Euros, and on the day the US declared victory in Iraq, they went back to selling oil in Dollars.
    A stark warning to all others in the region.


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    #75
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Has no one mentioned that a primary reason for all this is that he wants to send back about 2m refugees back into Syria now the dust has settled down somewhat?
    Also likely to help with public support, fiscal book balancing and his future re-election, they may be considered a neighbourly burden to Turkey.

    Anyway the potential future candidate for EU-membership has no issue saying what he thinks/wants:

    kEUWxtx.png


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    #76
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Right, so after what Europe did there in the last 100 years, and what US has destabilised there in the last 50 you think that it is ripe for stable government?

    You reap what you sow and the west has been interfering there for far too long to simply wash hands

    So keep interfering then? It wasn't that long ago when most people in the West wanted the US to withdraw from interfering in the Middle East. Now they want them to stay..they can't win.


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    #77
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    Trump saying the Kurds didn't help at D-Day.

    What a pr*ck.

    They've lost 4 times the number of Americans killed on D-Day fighting ISIS.

    I'm convinced Iraq and most of Syria would be overrun by ISIS if it wasn't for the Kurds fighting and putting themselves in harms way.

    You cannot win a war with airpower alone. You need boots on the ground.

    Another shameful episode in this president's term and US history in general.


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    #78
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    So keep interfering then? It wasn't that long ago when most people in the West wanted the US to withdraw from interfering in the Middle East. Now they want them to stay..they can't win.

    Yes USA should remove their troops from the region but do it in the right way, not the one that leaves the people that fought with you against a common enemy to be rife for slaughter.


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    #79
    Harvey Weinstein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Harvey Weinstein


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    Trump saying the Kurds didn't help at D-Day.

    What a pr*ck.

    They've lost 4 times the number of Americans killed on D-Day fighting ISIS.

    I'm convinced Iraq and most of Syria would be overrun by ISIS if it wasn't for the Kurds fighting and putting themselves in harms way.

    You cannot win a war with airpower alone. You need boots on the ground.

    Another shameful episode in this president's term and US history in general.

    Weren't ISIS themselves proxy warriors for the US and Israel?


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    #80
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    so the solution is to continue meddling until....until when?


    there's over 10,000 years of civilization in the region, 100 years is a drop in the ocean.

    ISIS were a massively destabilising group in the region and the Kurds handed them their asses and brought some stability back to that region of Syria and Northern Iraq.

    Those gains will be replaced by instability again.


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    #81
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    Weren't ISIS themselves proxy warriors for the US and Israel?

    Take of the tin foil hat, its clearly affecting your thinking.


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    #82
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Harvey Weinstein wrote: »
    So keep interfering then? It wasn't that long ago when most people in the West wanted the US to withdraw from interfering in the Middle East. Now they want them to stay..they can't win.

    They should never have started any oil wars. They created the Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. we have today.
    Getting allies to rise up and then leaving them hanging is dirty.


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    #83
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    Take of the tin foil hat, its clearly affecting your thinking.

    This was widely claimed even russian media went as far to claim America was flying tens or thousands of Isis fighters into Syria using airforce cargo planes.


    Remember when putin made claim's that he could prove erdokan was supporting Isis along with members of his family ,
    Next thing we heard was a coup attempt which was uncovered by russian intelligence services erdokan and Putin became best of mates
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #84
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    ollkiller wrote: »
    Yes USA should remove their troops from the region but do it in the right way, not the one that leaves the people that fought with you against a common enemy to be rife for slaughter.

    Do most people realise what amount of US troops we are talking about being in that area?

    It is at most in the hundreds because they are special forces, observers, trainers.
    It is not the usual grunts on the grounds.
    Even so there was no way that pric* in Turkey would risk attacking while there were any Americans on the ground.

    But it is not the first time the yanks have turned tail.
    The Montagnard tribes in Vietnam suffered a similar fate, although this case is much worse in that at least the US president of the time didn't contact the Vietnamese leader and give him his blessing.

    And it is not the troops on the ground looking for an out, they have actually done the real hearts and minds job, embedded themselves with the locals and worked and fought with them.
    It is always the higher ups, the adminstration that pulls the rug out from under them.

    trump is truly an odious individual.

    And this is not playing well to some republicans nor to military who he now makes look like complete bast***s.


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    #85
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    Not the first time the US screwed the Kurds. They encouraged them to rise up against Saddam in 1991 but were given no help in doing so.


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    #86
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,009 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    Not the first time the US screwed the Kurds. They encouraged them to rise up against Saddam in 1991 but were given no help in doing so.




    The worst was when kissinger threw them to the wolves in the 1970's. Thousands died at the hands of Saddam.


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    #87
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Daniel Noisy Firefighter wrote: »
    Also likely to help with public support, fiscal book balancing and his future re-election, they may be considered a neighbourly burden to Turkey.

    I wouldn't worry about that ;)


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    #88
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    ollkiller wrote: »
    Yes USA should remove their troops from the region but do it in the right way, not the one that leaves the people that fought with you against a common enemy to be rife for slaughter.

    I don't understand how people aren't getting this. There is a huge difference between a sensible withdrawal and an impulsive evacuation.


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    #89
    Simms
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25 ✭Simms


    Beta Ray Bill wrote: »
    True, Ukraine has no dependable Allies

    Eurovision:confused:


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    #90
    Liberta Per Gli Ultra
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭Liberta Per Gli Ultra


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    of course this sudden withdrawal is stupid. i'm making a more general point about how America is expected to keep the peace all over the world but is also maligned for doing so.

    What a load of bollocks, who expects a narcissistic serial killer like the US to keep the peace? The US invades and steals under the guise of "democracy spreading" and "defending American interests" and then f*cks off when it suits.
    Beta Ray Bill wrote: »
    Oil - The fact that the whole area is sitting on the worlds most easily accessible oil supply and the worlds oil dependent countries want to keep them fighting. If they were to ever unite, it would basically be the end of Petrodollar recycling. Note: US invaded Iraq when they began to sell oil in Euros, and on the day the US declared victory in Iraq, they went back to selling oil in Dollars.
    A stark warning to all others in the region.

    Bingo.


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    #91
    blueshade
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 428 ✭✭blueshade


    ollkiller wrote: »
    Yes USA should remove their troops from the region but do it in the right way, not the one that leaves the people that fought with you against a common enemy to be rife for slaughter.

    So how long exactly are they supposed to stay there? A year, 5 years, 10 years? Erdogan has wanted to invade for a long time and it wouldn't matter how long he had to wait as soon as the Americans moved out he would move out. Only a year or so ago Angela Merkel wanted Europe to pay him 3 billion euro to take refugees and to speed up Turkey's membership of the EU.


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