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Value of garden v extension - Dublin

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  • 09-10-2019 9:43am
    #1
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,974 ✭✭✭


    We bought a new build in south Dublin 4 years ago - 4 bed, 2 storey and about 1,700 s ft.

    2 kids later I think we need more space downstairs so want to build a 18 sqm extension. The current garden is small enough - about 70sqm and my wife is very concerned about losing the garden. We don't use it that much she just likes looking out at it and sense of some space.

    I feel we'd use the new extension 365 days of the year etc. so willing to sacrifice a lot of the garden. We'd be left with a patio and small strip of grass with some trees and flower bed etc. Also we'd have a c1,900 sq foot modern house that's only 2 storeys in Dublin, which would be rare enough now as most are 3 storeys. Just the problem would be a tiny garden left.

    Not sure if it's forever home, id be fine it if was but there's the possibility of moving in 10 years time so my wife wants to know:

    1 - what is the value of the garden v extension in Dublin come resale in 10 years? what % of purchasers would be put off by such a small garden?

    2 - what do you think is the average ratio of garden sq footage to ground floor house sq footage in Dublin? obviously older houses have much bigger gardens than new builds

    3 - we have 3 multi stemmed west Himalayan silver birch trees against back wall and new proposed extension would be about 3-4m away - would this have any impact on the extension - could the tree roots cause issues?

    Appreciate any thoughts....


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    #2
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    People with kids want gardens - you can't kick a football/cycle a bike/scoot about on a scooter in an extension. No idea of the value, but anecdotally I know of a renovated house which took a lot longer than it should have to sell due to the garden being sacrificed to a large open plan extension.


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    #3
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    I've moved house in the last 4 months. We have two young kids and we saw a lovely house that suited us with an extension as we wanted plenty of space inside. However it left the garden very small and we quickly realised the garden was a deal breaker.

    That was a 3 bedroom house and we ended up buying a 4 bed with a great sized garden.

    It's a personal thing for each buyer. Some wont care about a garden and some will. I'd expect most would prefer the option to make their own decision.

    Also its a personal thing but would have assumed plenty of space for a family of 4 within 1700 sq foot. Maybe a rework of the existing lay out woudl be more useful?


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    #4
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    peteb2 wrote: »
    Also its a personal thing but would have assumed plenty of space for a family of 4 within 1700 sq foot. Maybe a rework of the existing lay out woudl be more useful?

    Agree with this. 1700sq foot is more than enough space for 2 adults and 2 kids, especially as it has 4 bedrooms.

    For me, i need my garden. Its only about 30 sq meters but that is a great place to relax in the evening after coming home from work in the summer, and in the winter its just nice to look at.

    From a pure value point of view i would think that an extension will add more value to the property than the garden, but you might reduce your pool of potential buyers.


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    #5
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    A well designed low labour garden is an asset also. You have a big house for family size but you might be able to design the garden as additional outdoor space, maybe a patio and low maintenance shrubbery. Also the kids wont always be small and you could have room to erect one of those purpose built garden sheds for a small gym/ recreation area.


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    #6
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    Zulu wrote: »
    People with kids want gardens - you can't kick a football/cycle a bike/scoot about on a scooter in an extension. No idea of the value, but anecdotally I know of a renovated house which took a lot longer than it should have to sell due to the garden being sacrificed to a large open plan extension.

    Beyond the age of 3 you can't kick a football, cycle a bike or scoot in a 70sqm garden either.

    If there's enough space left for a terrace/bbq, one piece of pkay equipment, to hang out clothes and the orientation is such that you still get a bit of sun into the space, the difference in value between 70sqm and 50sqm won't be huge. They both fall into "there's some outdoor space" category.

    That said, if you can't make a 1700sqft 4 bed house work for 2 adults and 2 kids then I don't see an extension bringing you what you're looking for. You should have enough space, the key is more likely to be using the space you have more efficiently and effectively.


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    #7
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    Beyond the age of 3 you can't kick a football, cycle a bike or scoot in a 70sqm garden either.
    With a 5 year old, 6 year old, and a dog I couldn't disagree more.

    But I accept it's a personal thing and it might/might mot suit people accordingly.


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    #8
    Leprechaun77
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Leprechaun77


    We had this dilemma a few years ago. The main considerations were the orientation of the back garden and the amount of light the remaining garden would have. The other consideration was in relation to usable space to the front of the house where the kids can play (open area/green).

    In our instance we were left with decent light in the back, and actually changed it to Indian Sandstone. It is getting more use now than ever before! We also have a big green to the front of the house and all the kids use this. The extra space of the extension is usable year round and made a noticeable difference for us.

    On another note, a 1700sq foot area is quite large by Dublin standards. I would first look at the potential to redesign the current space perhaps?

    In relation to value, the extension will increase the house price without doubt, however not to the tune of the cost of the works in my opinion. Small extensions are big money at the moment.


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    #9
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Simply put a small back garden will reduce the market of people looking to buy the house. We had the very similar situation on out own house. As we aren't really bothered about a garden it suited us to have a bigger house and smaller garden.
    The thing is we will never sell we will rent it out afterwards and a low maintenance small garden is much better for a rental.
    Current builds have smaller gardens but compared to the neighbours ours looks small. So people looking in the area tend to expect a bigger garden.
    Your children won't care about the garden in a short space of time.


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    #10
    victor8600
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Regardless of the size of the garden remaining after building the extension, my opinion is that the extension reduces the value of the house. Most extensions look hideous from the outside and out of the proportion from the inside. Personally, I would rather buy a house without an extension.


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    #11
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,974 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    Zulu wrote: »
    People with kids want gardens - you can't kick a football/cycle a bike/scoot about on a scooter in an extension. No idea of the value, but anecdotally I know of a renovated house which took a lot longer than it should have to sell due to the garden being sacrificed to a large open plan extension.

    To be honest the garden is already to small to do that - it's 70sqm and we have 3 greens in our estate that we use for those activities.

    For me I'd prefer a real proper size garden and not much at all.

    Going from 70 to 50 sqm for me isn't a massive difference, its still a very small garden.

    I think when kids get older the only use for our garden is to sit outside on patio to eat/drink and have a bar b q, which 50sqm seems plenty.


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    #12
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,974 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    Agree with this. 1700sq foot is more than enough space for 2 adults and 2 kids, especially as it has 4 bedrooms.

    Layout of house is great and rooms are big, upstairs is fine. Downstairs we just have a large living room and a large open plan kitchen/dining area.

    We have a large table we love in dining area and live in the kitchen so point of extension is to have a 2nd living room with couches.

    So kids can play there now and when older pop a TV in and let them watch TV/hang with their friends whilst we use front living room.


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    #13
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,974 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    Beyond the age of 3 you can't kick a football, cycle a bike or scoot in a 70sqm garden either.

    If there's enough space left for a terrace/bbq, one piece of pkay equipment, to hang out clothes and the orientation is such that you still get a bit of sun into the space, the difference in value between 70sqm and 50sqm won't be huge. They both fall into "there's some outdoor space" category.

    Yes this is my thinking also. Yes there would be enough space to hang clothes, sit out on patio and have play equipment. as well as 3 trees and shurbs etc.


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    #14
    victor8600
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Theboinkmaster wrote: »
    ...point of extension is to have a 2nd living room with couches.

    So kids can play there now and when older pop a TV in and let them watch TV/hang with their friends whilst we use front living room.

    Would it be possible to convert one of the bedrooms into kids play area instead?


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    #15
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,974 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    To give you an idea of garden left after proposed extension it would be:

    - 24 sq m grass rectangle
    - 12 sq m patio rectangle
    - 5 sq m flower beds/trees
    - 6 sq m side passage (covered up so we use to store stuff, no garden shed)

    Hope that's helpful - so about 45/50 sq m left of garden after extension, maybe more as my wife thinking of reducing size of extension from 19 to 17 sq m.


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    #16
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,974 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    victor8600 wrote: »
    Would it be possible to convert one of the bedrooms into kids play area instead?

    not really - if I was going down that route id probably get attic conversion as the pitched roof is really high and you'd get a massive room up in the attic.

    but im not mad on 3 storey - we live in the kitchen so that's why I want more room there.


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    #17
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Maybe have a think about the garden whilst getting the extension it might be able to be made more useable. We’re just about to get some work done in the house and first up is getting the garden sorted, we currently have basically half patio and half stones for the dog to use as a toilet. We had the dog before the kids so it didn’t matter, we are basically getting 2/3 of it as AstroTurf with a small patio and leaving the bottom third for the shed and dog. It’s a small garden but will be way more useable. Luckily it’s a west facing garden so gets great sun in the afternoon onwards.


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    #18
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Theboinkmaster wrote: »
    not really - if I was going down that route id probably get attic conversion as the pitched roof is really high and you'd get a massive room up in the attic.

    but im not mad on 3 storey - we live in the kitchen so that's why I want more room there.

    It's cheaper to go up rather than out. And if you are looking for space from the kids, or them from you more likely, then they might prefer to up in the attic as opposed to just the other side of the kitchen.


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    #19
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,171 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Likely easier to avoid noise travel between an attic conversion and a sitting room too...


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    #20
    scamalert
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    someone with pets kids as said would def turn down house if it only had a patch, it might be pain in the hole to maintain, but if done right looks nice to have even small garden.


    agree that attic could be done into play room or spare bedroom better ROI long term, then few meters in the kitchen.


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    #21
    SozBbz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SozBbz


    I think if you're looking to maximize ROI for your spend now and maintain the desirability of the house to future buyers, the attic is the way to go.

    If I were a teenager, I'd value that sense of privacy that an attic would give - it would feel like a den and be ideal for teens who want a space to hang out.

    We're just completing on a new house now and it was largely the garden that sold it to us.


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    #22
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    victor8600 wrote: »
    Regardless of the size of the garden remaining after building the extension, my opinion is that the extension reduces the value of the house. Most extensions look hideous from the outside and out of the proportion from the inside. Personally, I would rather buy a house without an extension.
    A larger house is worth more a large garden may increase the value of your house. There really isn't much debate on whether an extension adds value they simply do. The amount of increased value is dependant on how it is done. A few exceptions but they would be about bad construction and/or terrible design.

    Most people will value a bigger kitchen due to an extension than a small kitchen. Your opinion would be the rarity


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    #23
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,974 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    SozBbz wrote: »
    I think if you're looking to maximize ROI for your spend now and maintain the desirability of the house to future buyers, the attic is the way to go.

    If I were a teenager, I'd value that sense of privacy that an attic would give - it would feel like a den and be ideal for teens who want a space to hang out.

    We're just completing on a new house now and it was largely the garden that sold it to us.

    I don't want to do the attic as it's downstairs I want the space - having parties, friends over etc. it's all on ground floor.

    The attic may be an option in 10 years if we don't move (in addition to the proposed ground extension).


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    #24
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,974 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    BTW thanks a million for all the feedback so far, is appreciated.


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    #25
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Zulu wrote: »
    People with kids want gardens - you can't kick a football/cycle a bike/scoot about on a scooter in an extension. No idea of the value, but anecdotally I know of a renovated house which took a lot longer than it should have to sell due to the garden being sacrificed to a large open plan extension.
    I’ve kids and a garden, kids only really use the trampoline, they play football etc on the green , cycle and scoot around the estate. The extra space of an extension is way more valuable.


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    #26
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    peteb2 wrote: »
    It's cheaper to go up rather than out. And if you are looking for space from the kids, or them from you more likely, then they might prefer to up in the attic as opposed to just the other side of the kitchen.

    No it’s not, well not in my case !!!
    you also sacrifice space for stairs etc. And there’s a whole lot of regulations to meet


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    #27
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    would a log cabin as a den / office not be a better idea? way cheaper and not permanent? also it actually gets you out and away from other people, giving you space...


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    #28
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,974 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    would a log cabin as a den / office not be a better idea? way cheaper and not permanent? also it actually gets you out and away from other people, giving you space...

    Wouldn’t be my cup of tea no, but thanks anyway


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    #29
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,974 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    ted1 wrote: »
    No it’s not, well not in my case !!!
    you also sacrifice space for stairs etc. And there’s a whole lot of regulations to meet

    For my house it’s more expensive to do attic than extension


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    #30
    victor8600
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    would a log cabin as a den / office not be a better idea? way cheaper and not permanent? also it actually gets you out and away from other people, giving you space...

    It's a nice idea if you want a work space (for office or DIY), but not good for kids as it's going to be cold in winter and also kids would run back and forth through the garden to the house constantly.
    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Most people will value a bigger kitchen due to an extension than a small kitchen. Your opinion would be the rarity

    I know what else is a rarity -- an extension that looks good.


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    #31
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    A branch manager of a bank (now retired) told me that as a "rule of thumb" you get back half the value of any work you carry out in terms of an ext.

    Don't know how accurate that is as I never sold a property, but there you go.


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