The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

threeball · 17-09-2019 07:03PM

elefant wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

It also conveniently ignores the fact that Galway has always been effectively two counties under one umbrella. One half played hurling, the other football. So effective playing numbers for football would probably be about 13000 and hurling about 8000. Far below the level implied above and more in line with average playing numbers and zero all Irelands. We've the 3rd most in football and 7th in hurling. Within 5yrs I believe we'll be 4th. For the numbers available we punch well above our weight.

Do you think Cork are going to win 3 football championships in 5 years, or Galway will win 4 hurling championships!

Sorry i meant 5th. We're one title off joint 6th and two off joint 5th.

Martina1991 · 17-09-2019 07:05PM

rm75 wrote:

The fact that you have nothing to say about Kerrys domination of Munster ( which is significantly more than dublins of leinster) or Galway and Mayos of Connacht indicates this is simply anti dublin bias on your part.

There are only 5 counties in Munster and 12 in Leinster.

Even statistically its a lot easier to win with fewer opponents.

gaffer91 · 17-09-2019 07:07PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The thing is gaffer

That you are saying the problem is financial doping.

So the solution to that should be - lets remove the financial doping.

But you're not saying that.

You're saying lets split the county in two. Which is a completely different thing.

I've explained this many times previously- Dublin have been financially doped for so long, and have so many other advantages, that even an equalisation of funding (n.b this must be equalisation from ALL sources, including sponsorship) will not be sufficient at this stage.

Take a boxer who dopes with a couple of cycles of steroids at the start of his career- he enjoys benefits for the entirety of his career. It's a similar situation with Dublin's financial doping.

Splitting them is to only rational step that can be taken to help manage their unfair advantages. It's important for Dubs to understand that they will still be left with a Dublin subdivision team to support and more players from Dublin will be able to challenge for Sam Maguire so they will benefit from this split as well as everyone else.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Not being smart - but I still don't see a funding disparity, unless you mean - why should a bigger county get more money.

If its on a 'per head of population basis' then no right minded person will see a problem with that.

Do you think the PM of Luxembourg goes whingeing to the EU that they don't as much Agri subsidies as Italy or France?

Christ, have a read through this thread or just google it. By whatever measure- per registered player, per head of population, Dublin have received and continue to receive far more money than every other county.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Those charts prove nothing. Repeating the same fake facts might convince some simpletons.

You have been asked to provide evidence of financial doping. You obviously cannot.
Not even one single cent.

A split is fantasy stuff. The last resort of a loser mentality that would be laughed at in every other serious sport.

The evidence has been provided many times over the course of this thread and others- why should I repost the same stuff when it's likely you won't even read it? Just use the search bar.

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a bigger imbalance to win five under-age competitions in a row, because they are five completely different teams. Before Dublin are split, Kerry must be split too, otherwise you just hand a ten-in-a-row to Kerry.

Kerry and other counties win on a mostly level playing field (well, Dublin have an advantage on them). They don't have the advantages that Dublin do i.e financial doping, population, home advantage.

I've explained this several times- it's not Dublin's success versus other counties, it's their success now vs what it would be like without their unfair advantages.

Dublin's advantages are the reasons they must be split, not just their victories.

blanch152 wrote: »

This has happened before. From 1975 to 1986, Kerry won 8 out of 12.

Dublin are on 7 out of 9, similar levels of dominance.

Football recovered from the decade of dominance by Kerry, it will also recover from the decade of dominance by Dublin.

The necessary criteria are in place for endless Dublin dominance. New players coming on stream every year, the starting team getting younger, pots of cash, a huge population. It's not cyclical.

RoyalCelt · 17-09-2019 07:07PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Not being smart - but I still don't see a funding disparity, unless you mean - why should a bigger county get more money.

If its on a 'per head of population basis' then no right minded person will see a problem with that.

Do you think the PM of Luxembourg goes whingeing to the EU that they don't as much Agri subsidies as Italy or France?

The GAA was thriving before they decided to lump millions into Dublin and barely a penny into the rest in terms of development money. Dublin should be able to fund those development coaches themselves. That 20M should have went elsewhere.

Padre_Pio · 17-09-2019 07:10PM

RoyalCelt wrote: »

My thoughts are the GAA should have invested millions into cork, Limerick, Clare and Tipp football with the aim to make it competitive. Kerry are far better off football wise then the rest so shouldn't receive nearly as much financial assistance as the rest.

Isn't that a stupid approach though?

Bad teams get rewarded.
Good teams get punished.

End result is that everyone is mediocre?

odyssey06 · 17-09-2019 07:13PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

There are only 5 counties in Munster and 12 in Leinster.
Even statistically its a lot easier to win with fewer opponents.

There are 6 counties in Munster and the amount of titles won by Kerry is way more than a variation of 1 in 6. They have more than 60 percent of the titles.

omega man · 17-09-2019 07:15PM

Games participation funding at underage level is now financial doping? Jesus wept.

Also I’m almost certain that other counties have spent more on their senior teams than Dublin in recent years.

We don’t even have our own centre of excellence ffs!

odyssey06 · 17-09-2019 07:22PM

RoyalCelt wrote: »

The GAA was thriving before they decided to lump millions into Dublin and barely a penny into the rest in terms of development money. Dublin should be able to fund those development coaches themselves. That 20M should have went elsewhere.

Barely a penny? Could you provide evidence of this or withdraw this nonsensical claim.
I want to see actual stats showing that the sums distributed to other counties was not in 7 figures.

odyssey06 · 17-09-2019 07:24PM

omega man wrote: »

Games participation funding at underage level is now financial doping? Jesus wept.
Also I’m almost certain that other counties have spent more on their senior teams than Dublin in recent years.
We don’t even have our own centre of excellence ffs!

Shh. You are not allowed mention Kerrys 7 million centre of excellence or the number of titles they have won. The GAA community is ok with Kerry winning everything but cant tolerate Dublin winning so invents ridiculous concepts like the split.
They cant even explain what financial doping is when challenged to do so.

salmocab · 17-09-2019 08:14PM

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

There is no way that Leinster Rugby would have said: "right, see ya", there would have been a counter offer.
The point is that there aren't many other clubs that could afford to pay for his services.
I will concede though that he played for Dublin which could have influenced his decision

B]

Why would there have been a counter offer? He’s just a S&C coach, they have a few working for them and I’d imagine a big hitter like Leinster wouldn’t find it hard to attract the top people. He left to work in the sport he lives for the county he captained. The fact that he was Dublin captain doesn’t mean he’s a great coach for all you know Leinster mightn’t have been at all bothered to see him go.
He’s just a bloke that left one job for another that I’m sure plenty of people are doing right now. It doesn’t mean Leinster we’re outbid or that money played any part at all.
Also you don’t know what he’s paid so you don’t know who else could afford him.

The high horse brigade · 17-09-2019 08:22PM

I heard today that while the kerry team after making the long trek back to Kerry after the drawn game some of the Dublin players were already recuperating in oxygen tents.

Padre_Pio · 17-09-2019 08:28PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

I heard today that while the kerry team after making the long trek back to Kerry after the drawn game some of the Dublin players were already recuperating in oxygen tents.

I heard that some of the Kerry players needed to check themselves into A&E after the long arduous trek down the N21.

The high horse brigade · 17-09-2019 08:28PM

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I heard that some of the Kerry players needed to check themselves into A&E after the long arduous trek down the N21.

A trek no Dublin player ever has to do. There's a lot to be said for sleeping in your own bed

rm75 · 17-09-2019 08:29PM

gaffer91 wrote: »

There will be natural variations in sporting achievements between counties. So titles won by Kerry or Galway in football, or Kilkenny in hurling can be considered to have been won fairly, unlike Dublin's recent victories which are due mostly, but not entirely, to their financial doping and other advantages.

Again- the measure isn't Dublin victories vs victories by other counties. The measure is Dublin victories now versus what they would be without the financial doping and home advantage etc. Unfortunately it's not possible to do a real life experiment checking how Dublin would perform with a smaller population or playing away from home but it stands to reason from all sports, including Gaelic games, that without those advantages they would win less.

However with the financial doping- Gachla and Gormdubhgorm helpfully posted a few charts showing an explosion in victories since it started so it's correct to infer that this has had a big effect.

I never said you supported my arguments- I said you posted charts showing a huge increase in titles by Dublin teams since the financial doping started in the early 2000s (2000-2019 specifically). The charts did indeed show that.

You drew completely erroneous conclusions because you are biased and work backwards (i.e your mindset is "Dublin are winning on a level playing field. I must find date to back this up) rather than seeing the evidence and drawing unbiased conclusions (i.e Dublin have unfair advantages and win more because of them) like myself and others.

See above for your other point- the reference is a Dublin team without financial doping and other advantages vs a Dublin team with those advantages, not Dublin vs Kerry in the 1980s. Hope that helps.

Your charts demonstrated that Dublin showed a massive increase in victories since the financial doping started.

Not the only reason as I've always said, granted, but a big part. A big, big part.

You are only seeing what you wish to see and make yourself sound silly by denying phrases like "financial doping" and trying to twist others points in line with your own biases.

I don't accept that about the amalgamations- Dublin can be split first and amalgamations can be addressed later if necessary, if at all.

The rest of your post is just the usual long winded, wordy garbage that has already been dealt with by other posters by many teams- feel free to go back and quote their posts and argue away with yourself to your heart's content.

People have provided plenty of evidence, including Gormdubhgorm- have a look at his famous charts and read back on what myself and other posters have said on the matter to help yourself gain some insight.

I repeat... Dublin are engaged in financial doping. It's a good description of their funding advantage and the benefits that accrue from it. Dublin are financially doping. To the tune of millions of euro.

A split will happen or the game will die at inter- county level, which will be a hammer blow to the organisation. You will still be left with a Dublin subdivision to support however.

Basically you just appear to be repeating the phrase " financial doping" as often as possible. Apparently this is evidence of something in your mind!

There is a myriad of factors affecting why certain counties are more successful than others. You have fixated on one.

Your failure to look at the far more successful Kerry or indeed the disproptionate success of Galway and Mayo provincially is clear evidence of an anti dublin bias. If you were really interested in increasing competitiveness you would be equally concerned about the disproportionate success of a small number of couunties in both Munster and Connacht

This bit is comical:

"Titles won by Kerry or Galway in football, or Kilkenny in hurling can be considered to have been won fairly, unlike Dublin's recent victories which are due mostly, but not entirely, to their financial doping and other advantages."

You are clearly a troll , take care now.

rm75 · 17-09-2019 08:32PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

A trek no Dublin player ever has to do. There's a lot to be said for sleeping in your own bed

Dont a fair few Kerry players live in dublin?
Also as pointed out O'Gara lives in Wexford while McCaffrey was working in Deogheda.

Still who needs fact on this thread, just keep repeating " financial doping" eh!

rm75 · 17-09-2019 08:36PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

There are only 5 counties in Munster and 12 in Leinster.

Even statistically its a lot easier to win with fewer opponents.

So why have only one team other than Cork and Kerry won Munster since the 1930's while 10 different Leinster counties have won in the same period?

odyssey06 · 17-09-2019 08:36PM

salmocab wrote: »

Why would there have been a counter offer? He’s just a S&C coach, they have a few working for them and I’d imagine a big hitter like Leinster wouldn’t find it hard to attract the top people. He left to work in the sport he lives for the county he captained. The fact that he was Dublin captain doesn’t mean he’s a great coach for all you know Leinster mightn’t have been at all bothered to see him go.
He’s just a bloke that left one job for another that I’m sure plenty of people are doing right now. It doesn’t mean Leinster we’re outbid or that money played any part at all.
Also you don’t know what he’s paid so you don’t know who else could afford him.

And worth mentioning in an adjunct to this story... not many other counties have to worry about a competing sporting entity with the resources and fanbase of Leinster in Dublin.
Apparently Dublin GAA arent allowed to hire coaches with rugby experience, but we are not allowed mention the level of sporting support in Dublin for Leinster rugby that allows them to pay players and coaches professionally.

salmocab · 17-09-2019 08:36PM

rm75 wrote: »

Dont a fair few Kerry players live in dublin?
Also as pointed out O'Gara lives in Wexford while McCaffrey was working in Deogheda.

Still who needs fact on this thread, just keep repeating " financial doping" eh!

McCaffery missed the first training session after the drawn game as he was working.

salmocab · 17-09-2019 08:38PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

I heard today that while the kerry team after making the long trek back to Kerry after the drawn game some of the Dublin players were already recuperating in oxygen tents.

Are you making a point here?

The high horse brigade · 17-09-2019 08:38PM

rm75 wrote: »

Dont a fair few Kerry players live in dublin?
Also as pointed out O'Gara lives in Wexford while McCaffrey was working in Deogheda.

Still who needs fact on this thread, just keep repeating " financial doping" eh!

The list of all the advantages that build up have been posted but you all keep denying you have any advantages like flat earthers

The high horse brigade · 17-09-2019 08:42PM

salmocab wrote: »

Are you making a point here?

It's just another advantage, they stack up. A monster nobody else can beat unless the off chance they catch them on a bad day

odyssey06 · 17-09-2019 08:42PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

A trek no Dublin player ever has to do. There's a lot to be said for sleeping in your own bed

Not if your own bed has a nagging wife or next door to a screaming kid or a dad with a smokers cough... lot to be said for a hotel bed in those circumstances!

salmocab · 17-09-2019 08:42PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

It's just another advantage, they stack up. A monster nobody else can beat unless the off chance they catch them on a bad day

A simple no would have done

kyote00 · 17-09-2019 08:43PM

The funding per registered club shows only marginal extra cash to Dublin...

Take the funding for the larger counties, divide by the number of registered clubs and it becomes clear that Dublin get less per club than a lot of the so called minnows.

gaffer91 wrote: »

Christ, have a read through this thread or just google it. By whatever measure- per registered player, per head of population, Dublin have received and continue to receive far more money than every other county.

The high horse brigade · 17-09-2019 08:44PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Not if your own bed has a nagging wife or next door to a screaming kid or a dad with a smokers cough... lot to be said for a hotel bed in those circumstances!

That's nonsense. I work away lots for work and struggle to sleep. There is nothing more comfortable than my own bed, even with a toddler joining me in the middle of the night to kick me a few times

rm75 · 17-09-2019 08:46PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

The list of all the advantages that build up have been posted but you all keep denying you have any advantages like flat earthers

All i can see is people repeating " financial doping".

When its pointed out that Kerrys are far more successful provincially we're told this is legitimate as is Kilkennys etc. Ignore that, ignore Galway and Mayos provincial success also!!

Only Dublins is illegitimate because eh eh financial doping.

Good summary of the thread i feel.

The high horse brigade · 17-09-2019 08:47PM

rm75 wrote: »

All i can see is people repeating " financial doping".

When its pointed out that Kerrys are far more successful provincially we're told this is legitimate as is Kilkennys etc. Ignore that, ignore Galway and Mayos provincial success also!!

Only Dublins is illegitimate because eh eh financial doping.

Good summary of the thread i feel.

Dublin are a professional outfit playing against amateurs

SEPT 23 1989 · 17-09-2019 08:48PM

Not a follower of your game but which would be the strongest team ?

North or south or the westside boys?

beggars_bush · 17-09-2019 08:51PM

kyote00 wrote: »

The funding per registered club shows only marginal extra cash to Dublin...

Take the funding for the larger counties, divide by the number of registered clubs and it becomes clear that Dublin get less per club than a lot of the so called minnows.

Cork do not get more in coaching funding than Dublin.
What club in Cork gets to hire a full time GDA?
Where are those figures from?

rm75 · 17-09-2019 08:52PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Dublin are a professional outfit playing against amateurs

I realise this might be hopelessly optimistic but any actual evidence to back that up, or did you pull that statement out of your ass?

No idea why you had to quote my post given your response had nothing to do with my point.

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1