Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

A real example which tied up our legal and legislative system for 35 years.

Either way - when the topic at hand is prorogation - I doubt an Irish government could go to the people with a constitutional amendment that meant that any future government could suspend parliament at will for as long as they deemed advantageous..

lawred2 wrote: »

Either way - when the topic at hand is prorogation - I doubt an Irish government could go to the people with a constitutional amendment that meant that any future government could suspend parliament at will for as long as they deemed advantageous..

There can't be any changes to the our constitution here in Ireland without a referendum put the people first

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

There can't be any changes to the our constitution here in Ireland without a referendum put the people first

That's exactly what I said

lawred2 wrote: »

so - what's the difference then between the Scottish courts and the English courts? Are they not as conservative where precedent is concerned?

Scotland doesn't just have its own courts, it has its own laws.

54and56 wrote: »

They are a very well established German company so will do things by the book. They won't have taken the decision lightly but they know (or are very confident) a No Deal Brexit would be such a disaster that shutting down is the correct commercial decision to make.

We've had experience of this in my département here in France, where it is considerably more difficult to shutter an established business. The (not very competitive) local factory was sold to a German business in the last decade, but the French workers refused to apply any common sense to the proposed evolution of their working practices. After several years of being persistently loss-making, the German owners decided to pull the plug.

Despite the incredibly complex and worker-friendly regulations in force, they had dotted every i, crossed every t and lined up every duck before they announced the closure. The workers went absolutely mental (like only the French do :rolleyes:) and spent a fortune of their own and other people's money taking the Germans to every court and tribunal they could think of. Every single challenge was thrown out.

I happen to know some of the people who worked there. Those who saw the closure - and the generous redundancy package - as an opportunity, took the money, found another job and have since done very well for themselves. Those who ranted and raved about it all are sitting on roundabouts wearing yellow jackets, voting for Marine LePen and whinging about the EU/Germans/foreigners in exactly the same way as Brexiters.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

A real example which tied up our legal and legislative system for 35 years.

It didn't tie up the legislative system for 35 years. It was a hot-button topic that successive governments sought to brush under the carpet, but it never brought the State to a standstill.

lawred2 wrote: »

urm I think that's sarcasm but as I'm straying into waters deeper than I'm comfortable with - I'm not so sure.

I thought uncodified constitutions were in the minority.

It is and they are

geffbyupy wrote: »

How do you think the next election will work out in the Six Counties? I doubt there will be a nationalist majority but I would bet that the DUP will lose a seat and SF will gain one, probably from that Nigel Dodds in North Belfast or Emma Pengelly in South Belfast, which previously had an SDLP seat.

The next election will be in a post Oct-31 world ...ask us then !

This isn't strictly Brexit related but I just had to share this here, seems I missed it completely before!

I didn't watch all of the morning proceedings, but Lord Keen is painful in his delivery. I hope for his sake that this doesn't play a role as there is no flow to the way he is presenting his arguments and even accounting for the stop-start nature of the proceeding with questions being asked, he seems to break his own momentum constantly and it does seem like he has delayed answering a few questions already.

Enzokk wrote: »

I didn't watch all of the morning proceedings, but Lord Keen is painful in his delivery. I hope for his sake that this doesn't play a role as there is no flow to the way he is presenting his arguments and even accounting for the stop-start nature of the proceeding with questions being asked, he seems to break his own momentum constantly and it does seem like he has delayed answering a few questions already.

Very different to Pannick this morning, he was very smooth. Questions seemed to be helping him make points, not stopping him in his tracks.

Enzokk wrote: »

From the little I saw this morning that was my impression as well. I cannot help but notice that Lord Keen wasn't keen to address why there was not signed statement on the reason for the prorogation other than there are other documents and that means it really isn't an issue. That seems to be missing the point.

He was also asked on the reasons for prorogation and why they wanted to include the recess period, and for me he didn't address these at all. I wish I knew whether this meant anything or if in fact the way he avoided answering pointed questions actually means more than avoiding the answers.

That is it for today though, back again tomorrow for more.

Just a quick follow up to see what Mark Francois is up to, and it is only to suggest violence in case he doesn't get his way.

https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1173942067631972353?s=20

Had a big bunfight with Sam Gyimah on same show. The guy would start a fight with his own shadow.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Francois could well be right. The Telegraph, Express and Mail have whipped up English nationalism in a way that I haven't seen before. They have abandoned any pretence of independent reportage as a quick scan of their headlines will show. Ditto the ERG and Brexit Party.

Honestly I would be of the opinion of so what, if you dont tackle it now you get riots when people have their rights and other benefits removed because of Brexit. THe simple truth is the Telegraph, Mail, Express and the sun are propaganda rags peddling bull and lies and need to be held to account for publshing such distorted rubbish to begin with. Either they're hauled before the courts for publishing misinformation or those who run them are held to account. Either way they're standards have fallen into the gutter and they need to be dragged back to a level of quality thats reliable and verifiable or they're shut down for basically lying and speading misinformation just like the anti-vaxxer idiots.

The ERG are a bunch of self serving clowns and I'm pretty sure they've some rather nasty stuff hidden in the closet it doesnt take a genius to figure out they're purely out engineering this for their own benefit and not the country and as for the Brexit "party" they're just a front for other's namely that troll Farage, no policies, no idea's, only Brexit or Riot.

I'd be honest if there's a serious investigation into these wasters I wouldn't be suprised if theres more than a few dirty secrets buried there, follow the money and you find out who the real puppeteers of this are. As for Brexit itself it's a scam and if politicians were a Bit Braver they'd stop this madness and cut off any BS on this whole thing, the whole thing was built on lies and was nothing more than a Tory party scam and any of those advocating this is a good thing need to be told that they dont have any facts, they're talking out of their hole and that they have no right to take people's rights away purely for vanity. As for will of the people 17.4milliion of a population of 64million+ is not a majority plain and simple and the whole referendum was won on misinformation and lies and is thus invalid based on those 2 facts alone.

Infini wrote: »

Honestly I would be of the opinion of so what, if you dont tackle it now you get riots when people have their rights and other benefits removed because of Brexit. THe simple truth is the Telegraph, Mail, Express and the sun are propaganda rags peddling bull and lies and need to be held to account for publshing such distorted rubbish to begin with.

The ERG are a bunch of self serving clowns and I'm pretty sure they've some rather nasty stuff hidden in the closet it doesnt take a genius to figure out they're purely out engineering this for their own benefit and not the country and as for the Brexit "party" they're just a front for other's namely that troll Farage, no policies, no idea's, only Brexit or Riot.

I'd be honest if there's a serious investigation into these wasters I wouldn't be suprised if theres more than a few dirty secrets buried there, follow the money and you find out who the real puppeteers of this are.

Indeed. But many people no longer want facts, explanations or depth. They want simple slogans that feed into their sense of Englishness and their sense of entitlement. So these papers and politicians tell them what they want to hear. Much like Trump supporters, they don't care about any secrets or realities. They just want to believe in something and someone. Brexit and Brexiteers answer that call perfectly.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Indeed. But many people no longer want facts, explanations or depth. They want simple slogans that feed into their sense of Englishness and their sense of entitlement. So these papers and politicians tell them what they want to hear. Much like Trump supporters, they don't care about any secrets or realities. They just want to believe in something and someone. Brexit and Brexiteers answer that call perfectly.

Sadly they're just fooling themselves and worse they're dragging other's down with their blind faith in a lie and delusion and fail to see how damaging it's gonna be to themselves. Sadly they're gonna end up having to suffer for their own stupidity simply because they refuse to listen to reason and it wont be because anyone wished it on them but because they brought it on themselves. I swear human stupidity is the cancer of this existence.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Indeed. But many people no longer want facts, explanations or depth. They want simple slogans that feed into their sense of Englishness and their sense of entitlement. So these papers and politicians tell them what they want to hear. Much like Trump supporters, they don't care about any secrets or realities. They just want to believe in something and someone. Brexit and Brexiteers answer that call perfectly.

It's a bit of a perfect storm. A dumbed down section of the population being lied to by a corrupt press (and wanting to be lied to, as the press are feeding them a load of bile that ties in with their bigoted attitudes).

Best guess is that this leads to the break up of the UK. It seems to be mainly England going through this craziness.