Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Dyr · 13-09-2019 07:40AM

murphaph wrote: »

They could go a step between and mark tweets as being from a possible bot. To have your account verified if the AI incorrectly assigned you bot status you would then need to validate using an SMS or similar. It would mean most normal real people having to take no action.

Just makes bots more expensive will not stop them

L1011 · 13-09-2019 07:40AM

And we've plenty of air freight capacity on European short haul routes due to Aer Lingus still doing belly cargo.

Enzokk · 13-09-2019 07:45AM

So with the talk of a NI only backstop, I am sure we would be happy with that as we get the transition period and a new government comes in. I still fail to see how Johnson wins a majority as he has to run on the Tory record of the past 9 years and there has been polls out that Leave Labour voters will not vote Conservative.

So with Brexit out of the way he doesn't pick up seats in the Labour heartlands, he doesn't have the Brexit Party taking votes from Labour in those seats to try and steal a seat, he will lose seats in Scotland and he will lose seats to the Lib Dems who will run on a soft Brexit at the very least or revoke.

This also ignores the fact that he pledged the divorce bill will not be as negotiated because they will get a new deal, he said he didn't want an election and now wants one and he basically misled the Queen to prorogue parliament. I still see so many circles that needs to be squared that unless the people falls for the lies I cannot see him in office after an election.

murphaph · 13-09-2019 07:46AM

reslfj wrote: »

This is just not likely. Steve Barclay should think before he talks.

Some facts:

UK (incl NI) population i 14 times larger that Ireland's. Medicine use in Ireland apx 1/14 of UK use - 14 times less lorries.
Ireland is an EU27 member and all paperwork and certification requirement for medicine from EU26 will continue unchanged.
Much increased ro-ro ferry capacity Ireland to fr, be, nl (and es).

The UK is producing some medicines. These will unlikely be in short supply not in the UK nor in Ireland. UK produced medicines will medium term need new certification for sale in EU27 e.g Ireland, but very far from a Brexit day 1 problem.

Medicine from EU26 can easily be transported on lorries by ferry from fr, be or nl. No new certificates needed and using standard friction free SM procedures.

Special 'medicine' like radioactive isotopes (active life 5-7 days) can easily be flown in as Ireland is in EU/EURATOM. Likely the ferry will be fast enough too.

Lars

If the sh!t really hits the fan I am pretty sure we can count on the support of the various air forces around the EU to fly in anything in urgent short supply (possibly due to weather induced ferry problems) like said medicinal radioactive isotopes. We will NOT be alone in this.

prawnsambo · 13-09-2019 08:12AM

murphaph wrote: »

They could go a step between and mark tweets as being from a possible bot. To have your account verified if the AI incorrectly assigned you bot status you would then need to validate using an SMS or similar. It would mean most normal real people having to take no action.

A simpler system would be to only allow verified accounts comment on or tag other users. Unverified accounts can tweet away to their heart's content and follow and like posts from other users (retweet without comment too I suppose), but that's it until they're verified.

circadian · 13-09-2019 08:35AM

murphaph wrote: »

If the sh!t really hits the fan I am pretty sure we can count on the support of the various air forces around the EU to fly in anything in urgent short supply (possibly due to weather induced ferry problems) like said medicinal radioactive isotopes. We will NOT be alone in this.

I agree. With a hard exit we'll see disruption but we'll also see the cooperation of a large trading block to mitigate these challenges.

This in itself highlights how insane a hard exit is. The UK will be willingly throwing itself into turmoil and hardship while cutting off its safety net at the same time. While its neighbours who are also affected can rely and support each other.

CelticRambler · 13-09-2019 08:37AM

woohoo!!! wrote: »

There's factions within in both sides who hate their own side more than they hate the Brexiteers/Remainers. Witness Tory contempt for BP, Labour's divisions, Lib Dems hate for Labour, SNP with their own agenda and so on. ...

It's wishful thinking that they're all of a sudden going to come to their senses before Brexit day when they cannot agree on anything. Maybe in 20 years, maybe never.

Yeah but ... but .... but did you not notice that they have all come to their senses, and over the course of a week inflicted six successive defeats on the government through common agreement.

The Johnson-Cummings prorogation coup turned out to be a very powerful catalyst and knocked sense back into a lot of those factions. With Johnson on the ropes, they only need to hold it together now for another few months for that wish-list to become a plan of action.

Enzokk · 13-09-2019 08:44AM

This tweet is one reaction to Yellowhammer,

https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1172136812032200709?s=20

So Brexit is okay because Ireland will suffer too, we promised you a better life but at least those guys will suffer as well as us.

gooch2k9 · 13-09-2019 08:44AM

J Mysterio wrote: »

https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1172031968852287489

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but that's a pretty damn hostile sentiment being expressed.

DOCARCH · 13-09-2019 08:52AM

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but that's a pretty damn hostile sentiment being expressed.

From the Priti Patel school of thought!

An Claidheamh · 13-09-2019 09:00AM

Seems as if the Irish media and establishment have been conditioning us over the last two decades, that despite all the evidence and history we have with Britain, we must speak no evil, hear no evil, see no evil.

Varadkar and Fine Gael supporting the Orange Order and wearing British poppies has done nothing but embolden Britain and take us for granted.

Anyone who complained was branded as a "Provo" or strawmanned in some sense.

That tweet should be the main headline on the Irish Times and ought to be condemned by our government.... But it won't.

VinLieger · 13-09-2019 09:05AM

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Seems as if the Irish media and establishment have been conditioning us over the last two decades, that despite all the evidence and history we have with Britain, we must speak no evil, hear no evil, see no evil.

Varadkar and Fine Gael supporting the Orange Order and wearing British poppies has done nothing but embolden Britain and take us for granted.

Anyone who complained was branded as a "Provo" or strawmanned in some sense.

That tweet should be the main headline on the Irish Times and ought to be condemned by our government.... But it won't.

This entire post is a straw man tbh.

Everything you describe was done to try and get over our history and help with integration for a future UI.

Blaming people with objectively good intentions for the clusterfvck the tories have put everyone in is incredible petty and reductive.

Also when priti patel suggested starving us as a negotiating strategy it was condemned by our government so get off your selective memory high horse.

For Forks Sake · 13-09-2019 09:13AM

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but that's a pretty damn hostile sentiment being expressed.

Joke will be on them once they realize that we manufacture most of the worlds Viagra (Cork) and Botox (Westport). They'll sign up for the backstop approximately three seconds after that revelation (maybe someone should highlight it on the side of a bus.

gmisk · 13-09-2019 09:20AM

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Joke will be on them once they realize that we manufacture most of the worlds Viagra (Cork) and Botox (Westport). They'll sign up for the backstop approximately three seconds after that revelation (maybe someone should highlight it on the side of a bus.

Riots on the streets of Essex!

woohoo!!! · 13-09-2019 09:27AM

CelticRambler wrote: »

woohoo!!! wrote: »

There's factions within in both sides who hate their own side more than they hate the Brexiteers/Remainers. Witness Tory contempt for BP, Labour's divisions, Lib Dems hate for Labour, SNP with their own agenda and so on. ...

It's wishful thinking that they're all of a sudden going to come to their senses before Brexit day when they cannot agree on anything. Maybe in 20 years, maybe never.

Yeah but ... but .... but did you not notice that they have all come to their senses, and over the course of a week inflicted six successive defeats on the government through common agreement.

The Johnson-Cummings prorogation coup turned out to be a very powerful catalyst and knocked sense back into a lot of those factions. With Johnson on the ropes, they only need to hold it together now for another few months for that wish-list to become a plan of action.

I noticed they re-iterate their opposition to a no deal, that they reacted to a blatant attempt to shut them down. Now if only they could show the same urgency in getting an alternative government and PM in place. And the real tricky bit, to put their differences aside, and get a WA ratified. I'm not holding my breath for this shenanigans has been going on nigh 3 years. I'm immensely frustrated with the dithering. And that on the last day before suspension they wasted hours on talking about Bercow. I mean ffs, they're staring down the barrel of calamity and it's still high fives about defeating Johnson, with zero credible alternative plan to get a WA ratified. This is why I referred yesterday to Bercow being part of the problem and it's obviously not just him, it's the whole clown show in Westminster.

prawnsambo · 13-09-2019 09:55AM

woohoo!!! wrote: »

And that on the last day before suspension they wasted hours on talking about Bercow. I mean ffs, they're staring down the barrel of calamity and it's still high fives about defeating Johnson, with zero credible alternative plan to get a WA ratified. This is why I referred yesterday to Bercow being part of the problem and it's obviously not just him, it's the whole clown show in Westminster.

Your criticism of Bercow seems to consist entirely of a dislike of his showmanship. Whether you like it or not, that's not what he'll be remembered for. Apart from giving a lot more UQs to backbenchers, he's taken SOs out of the sole control of government and introduced a secret ballot for chairs of committees. All of which has given parliament more power. And which power has actually resulted in the Benn Act (among others) which has a direct influence on brexit. And now he's calling for a written constitution. Something well overdue.

prawnsambo · 13-09-2019 10:03AM

An Claidheamh wrote: »

That tweet should be the main headline on the Irish Times and ought to be condemned by our government.... But it won't.

It wasn't a tweet. It was a secondhand report of what Steve Barclay may have said. So I doubt anyone's going to give a knee-jerk reaction (other than on Twitter) to such an unverified statement. Certainly not without a clearer attribution. And far better to just say that medicine supply will not be an issue post-brexit. Which it won't.

woohoo!!! · 13-09-2019 10:07AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

woohoo!!! wrote: »

And that on the last day before suspension they wasted hours on talking about Bercow. I mean ffs, they're staring down the barrel of calamity and it's still high fives about defeating Johnson, with zero credible alternative plan to get a WA ratified. This is why I referred yesterday to Bercow being part of the problem and it's obviously not just him, it's the whole clown show in Westminster.

Your criticism of Bercow seems to consist entirely of a dislike of his showmanship. Whether you like it or not, that's not what he'll be remembered for. Apart from giving a lot more UQs to backbenchers, he's taken SOs out of the sole control of government and introduced a secret ballot for chairs of committees. All of which has given parliament more power. And which power has actually resulted in the Benn Act (among others) which has a direct influence on brexit. And now he's calling for a written constitution. Something well overdue.

His showmanship isn't necessary and it undermines the very worthy things within his job that he has done and trying to do. There's another showman who is currently PM. It's not showmanship that's needed, it's leadership to try and get the semblance of something to bring their country back from the abyss. In any event, I've given my opinion and reasoning so I'm going to leave it there and stick to the topic of the thread.

lawred2 · 13-09-2019 10:09AM

woohoo!!! wrote: »

His showmanship isn't necessary and it undermines the very worthy things within his job that he has done and trying to do. There's another showman who is currently PM. It's not showmanship that's needed, it's leadership to try and get the semblance of something to bring their country back from the abyss. In any event, I've given my opinion and reasoning so I'm going to leave it there and stick to the topic of the thread.

In your opinion.

In my opinion - it takes a very strong character to stand up for propriety and order. And to do so in the face of what are a very arrogant and brazen Tory front bench.

listermint · 13-09-2019 10:09AM

Bambi wrote: »

Just makes bots more expensive will not stop them

Making them more expensive is key to combating them. It makes the process less attractive and this more costly for the funders

murphaph · 13-09-2019 10:14AM

listermint wrote: »

Making them more expensive is key to combating them. It makes the process less attractive and this more costly for the funders

Exactly. Even Putin has his limits. The cost/benefit has to stack up.

Leroy42 · 13-09-2019 10:17AM

lawred2 wrote: »

In your opinion.

In my opinion - it takes a very strong character to stand up for propriety and order. And to do so in the face of what are a very arrogant and brazen Tory front bench.

And let us not forget that TM government, of which the current PM which part of the cabinet, was the first to ever be held in contempt. That Johnson himself is under serious accusations of lying to the Queen and that he Chief of Staff has been found in contempt of Parliament for refusing to attend a committee hearing.

But yeah sure, its the guy trying to keep everything running within the rules that is the problem!

I also love the fact that more and more Tories are coming out claiming that there needs to be massive reform. This coming form the party that pulled a fast one on the LibDems over voting system reform. The party that has been in government for the last 9 nine, but now suddenly feels that the system is not working!

McMurphy · 13-09-2019 10:18AM

J Mysterio wrote: »

https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1172031968852287489

I'm pretty sure I heard some professor from maynooth (or some other university campus) on with Pat Kenny yesterday morning who said that pretty much all our medicine that was brought in via the UK has already been re-sourced from other countries in the EU because of the uncertainty with how Brexit may or may not turn out.

If true, and I've no reason to doubt the prof in question, that tweet is just another glaring example of how those across the pond will spew out any auld uninformed nonsense to their audience.

woohoo!!! · 13-09-2019 10:32AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

lawred2 wrote: »

In your opinion.

In my opinion - it takes a very strong character to stand up for propriety and order. And to do so in the face of what are a very arrogant and brazen Tory front bench.

And let us not forget that TM government, of which the current PM which part of the cabinet, was the first to ever be held in contempt. That Johnson himself is under serious accusations of lying to the Queen and that he Chief of Staff has been found in contempt of Parliament for refusing to attend a committee hearing.

But yeah sure, its the guy trying to keep everything running within the rules that is the problem!

I also love the fact that more and more Tories are coming out claiming that there needs to be massive reform. This coming form the party that pulled a fast one on the LibDems over voting system reform. The party that has been in government for the last 9 nine, but now suddenly feels that the system is not working!

Lawred clearly disagrees with my opinion and that's fine, no point getting into a row about it.

Kindly point out where I said that Bercow is the problem. As a refresher you will note that I think he's part of the problem due to excessive showmanship. You will also note that I've agreed with much of the good work he's done.

Seth Brundle · 13-09-2019 10:34AM

Mod Note: keep the Bercow showmanship stuff for a Bercow thread please!

PeadarCo · 13-09-2019 01:05PM

Johnny Dogs wrote:

If true, and I've no reason to doubt the prof in question, that tweet is just another glaring example of how those across the pond will spew out any auld uninformed nonsense to their audience.

Anecdotally I know of businesses outside medicine that have changed suppliers from UK based to alternatives within the EU. This is currently damaging the UK economy.

BluePlanet · 13-09-2019 01:08PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I heard some professor from maynooth (or some other university campus) on with Pat Kenny yesterday morning who said that pretty much all our medicine that was brought in via the UK has already been re-sourced from other countries in the EU because of the uncertainty with how Brexit may or may not turn out.

I think he was tweeting about the landbridge. If there are massive delays getting stuff into UK from Europe then medicine bound for Ireland that transits the landbridge is also impacted.

J Mysterio · 13-09-2019 01:40PM

Poor Boris heckled during Yorkshire speech

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1172485067916173314

joe40 · 13-09-2019 01:42PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Your criticism of Bercow seems to consist entirely of a dislike of his showmanship. Whether you like it or not, that's not what he'll be remembered for. Apart from giving a lot more UQs to backbenchers, he's taken SOs out of the sole control of government and introduced a secret ballot for chairs of committees. All of which has given parliament more power. And which power has actually resulted in the Benn Act (among others) which has a direct influence on brexit. And now he's calling for a written constitution. Something well overdue.

It is amazing the UK don't have a constitution and that is why imho the referendum was such a farce to begin with.

In our last referendums, eg Marriage equality, Abortion, we were not voting directly on the issue, we were simply voting to amend the constitution.

The Government then governs within the constraints of the constitution.

The Brexit referendum was a mess, with no clearly defined legal outcome, therfore open to all sorts of political interpretation.

Our referendums amend a legal document, our constitution, in a very specific unambiguous way.

The Brexit referendum was a prime example of how referendums can go wrong.

BorneTobyWilde · 13-09-2019 01:46PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

Poor Boris heckled during Yorkshire speech

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1172485067916173314

The hecklers voice faded as he was dragged from the room, how dare he have an opinion. He was asking questions, but we know the current trend of this Government is to not allow anyone to ask any questions.

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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