Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Frank Bullitt · 04-09-2019 09:39PM

Labour abstained.

Cummings really is a master at work.

An Ciarraioch · 04-09-2019 09:40PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Didn't get the required two thirds needed.

Or even a simple majority.

devnull · 04-09-2019 09:41PM

We'll be back here for another vote via a simple majority vote in a day or two I think, he'll keep trying various ways to force an election before the bill gets through the Lords.

04-09-2019 09:42PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Or even a simple majority.

No surprise, he has a majority of -46!

Itssoeasy · 04-09-2019 09:43PM

devnull wrote: »

We'll be back here for another vote via a simple majority vote in a day or two I think, he'll keep trying various ways to force an election before the bill gets through the Lords.

Did I hear/or read right that the PM can introduce a bill that says "we wish to hold an election on date X" and if it passed it would trigger an election ? I definetely heard something like that but can't find where.

Itssoeasy · 04-09-2019 09:45PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Or even a simple majority.

Well when you remove the whip from 21 of your Mp's the night before and you lost the slim majority you had before that, it makes getting a majority a bit difficult.

hometruths · 04-09-2019 09:45PM

Akrasia wrote: »

This whole ‘they voted for article 50 therefore they’re hypocrites to oppose no deal’ is a very dishonest argument. They voted for A50 in good faith that the government would negotiate a good deal to leave the EU while still retaining most of the benefits of being in the EU. Remember that long debate about whether it should be a hard brexit or a soft brexit? Well you don’t hear anything about soft brexit anymore, it’s as if that debate never existed. The ERG have successfully closed the options down to a Hard brexit, or catastrophic no deal. This has forced moderates to choose between accepting a hard brexit in the WA, or pushing for a 2nd referendum and calling the whole thing off.

‘they voted for article 50 therefore they’re hypocrites to oppose no deal’ is not the point I am making.

My point is that although they voted for Article 50, as members of parliament they have demonstrably failed to find a way of leaving, hard or soft of any flavour.

Ergo the only solution is to try and change the make up of the current members of parliament.

Vote a new lot in to find a solution, whether that is hard/soft or revoke.

bilston · 04-09-2019 09:46PM

Impressive consistency from Johnson.

3 votes
3 defeats

dublinman1990 · 04-09-2019 09:46PM

So what I can gather from this vote to end tonight's proceedings in the HoC; Labour are waiting to let the Brexit delay bill pass in the HoL first. It is known that Labour are not trusting the government, especially BJ, in having an GE at this moment in time. It's a very sensible decision to make by Labour for now to not have an election. I think after the 31st of October is a good thing for MP's if the extension get's passed in the HoL.

Imreoir2 · 04-09-2019 09:47PM

Gintonious wrote: »

Labour abstained.

Cummings really is a master at work.

Sure, the result of a now minority Conservative government that has no power to do anything at this stage and can be held in place while the opposition punches them with defeat after defeat is a master stroke. Boris's record is one of abject failure thus far. Trying to spin this as Mr Cummings master strategy is really the definition of polishing a turd.

The bleating complaints of Conservative MPs, reduced to schoolboy name calling, is sure to build a winning image when the General Election does come. /s

theguzman · 04-09-2019 09:48PM

I have been away from the thread and wasn't reading much into what happened today, the HoC has passed a motion to avoid a No-Deal Brexit and is refusing to vote for a General Election? Is this correct? Will Boris go to the EU and accept Theresa May's deal after all? Or is No-Deal Brexit still a possibility and if so how might it come about?

Synode · 04-09-2019 09:49PM

Gintonious wrote: »

Labour abstained.

Cummings really is a master at work.

Why?

04-09-2019 09:49PM

Synode wrote: »

Why?

I think the poster was being sarcastic.

Sardonicat · 04-09-2019 09:50PM

Would someone explain to me why so many abstentions?

Imreoir2 · 04-09-2019 09:50PM

devnull wrote: »

We'll be back here for another vote via a simple majority vote in a day or two I think, he'll keep trying various ways to force an election before the bill gets through the Lords.

Seemingly a short bill, of the kind needed to set aside the Fixed Term Parliament Act will be amendable and the opposition, who command a majority, can tack on whatever they want to the motion before voting on it. A atempt at a simple majority vote might backfire on Johnson to an even greater extent than his futile efforts thus far. The man is clearly in over his head.

declanflynn · 04-09-2019 09:53PM

bilston wrote: »

Impressive consistency from Johnson.

3 votes
3 defeats

That must be a record

piplip87 · 04-09-2019 09:53PM

Ward J. Littell wrote: »

I think the poster was being sarcastic.

While Labour want an election they cannot vote for one this time as BJ can then change the date of the election until after the 31st of October and therefore crash into a No deal Brexit.

Voting against the election gives the impression that they want BJ to stay in power so they abstain

devnull · 04-09-2019 09:55PM

Best chance of Tories now is getting the bill talked out.

However if it gets Royal approval and then there's an election, when would the first sitting of Parliament be after that at the earliest? I assume thy wouldn't have time to quickly pass a vote to get rid of the bill.

Frank Bullitt · 04-09-2019 09:55PM

Gintonious wrote: »

Labour abstained.

Cummings really is a master at work.

Just letting people know, I was joking here...just in case.

lawred2 · 04-09-2019 09:55PM

Gintonious wrote: »

Just letting people know, I was joking here...just in case.

I knew

Itssoeasy · 04-09-2019 09:55PM

theguzman wrote: »

I have been away from the thread and wasn't reading much into what happened today, the HoC has passed a motion to avoid a No-Deal Brexit and is refusing to vote for a General Election? Is this correct? Will Boris go to the EU and accept Theresa May's deal after all? Or is No-Deal Brexit still a possibility and if so how might it come about?

Yes. Well it has to pass the HOL before it comes into action. The fixed term act while making the process of calling a GE not as straight forward as it was, it does still give the PM of the day the power to control the date of the GE. Labour don't want to give BJ that power before the no deal brexit bill has gotten Royal Assent.

04-09-2019 09:56PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

Would someone explain to me why so many abstentions?

The bill needed 66.6% of all MPs to pass, even if they all went home the government couldn't win.

Thargor · 04-09-2019 09:56PM

This is too funny, Mays deal manages to sneak in for another vote:

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169317929520963584

For those confused:

The division was cancelled because when a division is called, a few minutes later the Speaker (or in this case, the Chairman of Ways and Means) asks the question again. Usually, the tellers for Ayes and Noes respond for their respective sides, but the tellers for the Noes were nowhere to be seen. So, the vote went to the Ayes.

theguzman · 04-09-2019 09:56PM

piplip87 wrote: »

While Labour want an election they cannot vote for one this time as BJ can then change the date of the election until after the 31st of October and therefore crash into a No deal Brexit.

Voting against the election gives the impression that they want BJ to stay in power so they abstain

Could Boris go to the Queen and she sack either him or the Parliament to trigger an election? However if that happened presumably Boris would be unable to dictate the election date and preventing him from using it to defacto crash out?

hometruths · 04-09-2019 09:58PM

devnull wrote: »

Best chance of Tories now is getting the bill talked out.

However if it gets Royal approval and then there's an election, when would the first sitting of Parliament be after that at the earliest? I assume thy wouldn't have time to quickly pass a vote to get rid of the bill.

I'd say Johnson will be asking Tory peers not to filibuster, get royal assent asap, and ask Corbyn again for the election on the 15th.

Currently the only way he can deliver on his promise to leave by October 31st is to try and win a majority on 15th - i.e before the EC summit on 17th.

Leroy42 · 04-09-2019 09:58PM

schmittel wrote: »

‘they voted for article 50 therefore they’re hypocrites to oppose no deal’ is not the point I am making.

My point is that although they voted for Article 50, as members of parliament they have demonstrably failed to find a way of leaving, hard or soft of any flavour.

Ergo the only solution is to try and change the make up of the current members of parliament.

Vote a new lot in to find a solution, whether that is hard/soft or revoke.

Or another ref surely?

Parliament has spent 3 years trying to get a solution, and have become deadlocked. The obvious way out is to ask the people what they want. WA, No Deal or Revoke.

lawred2 · 04-09-2019 10:00PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Or another ref surely?

Parliament has spent 3 years trying to get a solution, and have become deadlocked. The obvious way out is to ask the people what they want. WA, No Deal or Revoke.

Parliament has killed no deal. It's either WA or revoke.

Leroy42 · 04-09-2019 10:00PM

schmittel wrote: »

I'd say Johnson will be asking Tory peers not to filibuster, get royal assent asap, and ask Corbyn again for the election on the 15th.

Currently the only way he can deliver on his promise to leave by October 31st is to try and win a majority on 15th - i.e before the EC summit on 17th.

The major issue for Johnson now is time. Parliament is about to be suspended so he needs to rush to get anything through.

At it appears that Labour are in no rush to help him out.

04-09-2019 10:02PM

lawred2 wrote: »

Parliament has killed no deal. It's either WA or revoke.

Unless there is a GE and Boris returns with a big majority.

Leroy42 · 04-09-2019 10:02PM

lawred2 wrote: »

Parliament has killed no deal. It's either WA or revoke.

Well this parliament has, I agree. But I think if you are going to put it back to the people, on the basis that HoC is deadlocked, you cannot then say one option is removed.

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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