Opel Zafira started the car park fire in Cork

Hellrazer · 04-09-2019 08:40AM

anheneti wrote: »

It’s not as simple as popping in, it’s almost 4 hours gone on a Saturday morning when people with kids (people who buy Zafiras) are probably at their busiest..
If it’s as simple as you say, why not offer the service on Sundays when families can actually waste their day?

Abba987 wrote: »

Yup. I cant just pop in on a Saturday either.

The recall is out since May. Surely with this thread and the reports in the UK the two of you should be making it a priority to get this recall done.

This is what Im talking about with cancellations--people dont seem to get the urgency of getting this done.

04-09-2019 09:29AM

GSBellew wrote: »

Taking the one component you highlighted in isolation, the load on the wheel is in the opposite direction to the direction of the normal design load, it's an elongation force, outwards on the spoke / diameter of the rim rather than the expected compressive force which the wheel is designed for.

I could try to explain it, but if you can't grasp that concept its not worth my while expanding.

If you think about a 225/45-17 tyre + wheel combination spinning at 1667 rpm when driving at 200 km/h you'll find that the spokes of the wheel are actually designed also for "elongation". The centrifugal force at the wheel (not tyre) lip is about 65000 N (acceleration is approx. 670 G) if we say that the wheel weighs at 10 kg and most of the weight is at the outer edge. If the tyre weighs the same 10 kg this increases the load by another 100000 N.

Most of the load is probably contained by the tyre itself but it's wrong to say that wheels never see substantial non-compression loads.

dmcsweeney · 04-09-2019 10:36AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its self important nonsense. God forbid their busy schedules ever get interrupted. :rolleyes:

It would appear that driving the family around in a potential death trap takes priority for some people. If doing stuff with family is that important you'd think they'd take a few hours to get their cars fixed...for free!! That or they're busy trying to burn down shopping centres. How bloody irresponsible can you get?

04-09-2019 10:42AM

dmcsweeney wrote: »

It would appear that driving the family around in a potential death trap takes priority for some people. If doing stuff with family is that important you'd think they'd take a few hours to get their cars fixed...for free!! That or they're busy trying to burn down shopping centres. How bloody irresponsible can you get?

It's not fro free though (now I would get it done) but my time is not free (in fact I know exactly what I charge by the hour, for work).
My last recall work was as such, car was collected from my place of work, Rental company was sent to bring me to their close office, where I was given a car (1.5 hour lost).

And I still felt annoyed (after a few days) having to leave work early to go collect my car and leave the rental at the dealer. Because I had to leave work early and lost 2 billable hours worth of income.

That "Free" work cost me money of almost half a day's work.

Now you say, do it on a Saturday.
That time is not where I earn money but is where I spend the only real quality time, with my family. Between commute and school I get about 2 hours a night with my kids. Saturday is where I get to make up for that. So again, that time is far from free, to me either.

So, of course I would get the recall work done (and have on my own car, not an Opel) but the car companies should be providing a pick/drop service for these.

Guy:Incognito · 04-09-2019 10:43AM

What way are they lifting down cars that arent as easy to wrap it around a spoke on?

04-09-2019 10:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Between commute and school I get about 2 hours a night with my kids. Saturday is where I get to make up for that. So again, that time is far from free, to me either.

Tell that story when your burying your whole family (or someone else's) because they were burned to death.

04-09-2019 10:57AM

BrownFinger wrote: »

Tell that story when your burying your whole family (or someone else's) because they were burned to death.

No, I would have the works done (As I already said)

What I am stating is that people are saying it is "Free". It is not: The time taken to leave work or your own free time has an associated cost.
Companies should be made to facilitate seamless recall repairs. Be it a same day collect repair drop off, or a multi day collect/drop along with a rental car delivered.

Who knows, that extra pressure/cost might even make them listen to their engineers when they say that a design is causing them issues and the design should be adapted, rather than the engineers forced to find a solution to fit the design.
All recall costs should be the burden of the recalling party.

dmcsweeney · 04-09-2019 10:58AM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not fro free though (now I would get it done) but my time is not free (in fact I know exactly what I charge by the hour, for work).
My last recall work was as such, car was collected from my place of work, Rental company was sent to bring me to their close office, where I was given a car (1.5 hour lost).

And I still felt annoyed (after a few days) having to leave work early to go collect my car and leave the rental at the dealer. Because I had to leave work early and lost 2 billable hours worth of income.

That "Free" work cost me money of almost half a day's work.

Now you say, do it on a Saturday.
That time is not where I earn money but is where I spend the only real quality time, with my family. Between commute and school I get about 2 hours a night with my kids. Saturday is where I get to make up for that. So again, that time is far from free, to me either.

So, of course I would get the recall work done (and have on my own car, not an Opel) but the car companies should be providing a pick/drop service for these.

I was in a similar situation, had the BMW EGR recall, which was a far lower risk. In fact I was in contact with the dealer before I ever received the letter. While waiting to get it on I checked the coolant level regularly and checked the engine bay for leaks. I too work long hours and have a long commute. In addition to work and family I have a farm that takes up any free time. They didn't supply a courtesy car, and as they had no parts in stock, if mine way faulty they'd have had it 3-4 weeks minimum. It cost me time, but I put my safety and the safety of others first and got it done. As I say, far lower risk, and unlikely to cause death or injury, but look at how many lives the fire in Douglas has impacted? I wouldn't like to be the one explaining that I was too busy with life to get my car fixed. Just my opinion and I don't mean any disrespect towards you. I've often heard the same excuse from people driving around on dangerously worn tyres, I've been too busy to change them.

punisher5112 · 04-09-2019 11:08AM

So what do you do if the car breaks down???

What do you do when it goes on fire and you or others are in it?

This will take a hell of a lot more time to sort.

If you don't get the recall done then it's your fault not Opel's.

I actually can't understand this.

Of course it's annoying and a pain but what do you do if car needs a service or it needs extra work carried out on repairs and so on....

Emmersonn · 04-09-2019 11:12AM

and of course everyone knows for certain that the recall was not done. Maybe the third recall was done and similar to Opels' inability to fix the issue with the two previous recalls, Opel will be issuing another (Fourth) recall.

04-09-2019 11:14AM

dmcsweeney wrote: »

I was in a similar situation, had the BMW EGR recall, which was a far lower risk. In fact I was in contact with the dealer before I ever received the letter. While waiting to get it on I checked the coolant level regularly and checked the engine bay for leaks. I too work long hours and have a long commute. In addition to work and family I have a farm that takes up any free time. They didn't supply a courtesy car, and as they had no parts in stock, if mine way faulty they'd have had it 3-4 weeks minimum. It cost me time, but I put my safety and the safety of others first and got it done. As I say, far lower risk, and unlikely to cause death or injury, but look at how many lives the fire in Douglas has impacted? I wouldn't like to be the one explaining that I was too busy with life to get my car fixed. Just my opinion and I don't mean any disrespect towards you. I've often heard the same excuse from people driving around on dangerously worn tyres, I've been too busy to change them.

Mine was EGR also on an S80.
I have no real sympathy for people not making the time, over several months. Just have small issue with people saying it's all free. When, in fact, it can take a day between getting to the closest main dealer and back (even with only 30minutes of actual work being done)

Think that car companies get away too easy with recalls, knowing the hassle they cause will stop people coming in for all but the most serious cases.

04-09-2019 11:15AM

punisher5112 wrote: »

So what do you do if the car breaks down???

What do you do when it goes on fire and you or others are in it?

This will take a hell of a lot more time to sort.

If you don't get the recall done then it's your fault not Opel's.

I actually can't understand this.

Of course it's annoying and a pain but what do you do if car needs a service or it needs extra work carried out on repairs and so on....

A service is part of owning a car and you accept that. Having to give up a day because of the company's fault should not be.
They should bear the associated costs, not the customer.

punisher5112 · 04-09-2019 11:16AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A service is part of owning a car and you accept that. Having to give up a day because of the company's fault should not be.
They should bear the associated costs, not the customer.

Safety safety safety
..

It's very important

route66 · 04-09-2019 11:21AM

GSBellew wrote: »

I could try to explain it, but if you can't grasp that concept its not worth my while expanding.

Ahh, go on. I'm all ears!

04-09-2019 11:23AM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Safety safety safety
..

It's very important

Indeed and the costs (all associated costs, from door to door) of fixing a safety issue should lie with the company.

As I said, in paraphrase, "get the bloody work done people" but I still will argue with people saying it is "Free", it is not.

punisher5112 · 04-09-2019 11:30AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Indeed and the costs (all associated costs, from door to door) of fixing a safety issue should lie with the company.

As I said, in paraphrase, "get the bloody work done people" but I still will argue with people saying it is "Free", it is not.

Never said it's free but technically it is obviously it does eat into ones time, that an unfortunate circumstance of owning a car that has a safety recall.

Toyota recalled the wife Yaris and the car was already over 15 years old but at least they are fixing issues which I'm happy to see.

GM228 · 04-09-2019 11:31AM

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

Look up the Accidential Fires Act (1943), everyone must look after themselves!

I'm well aware of the Act and it does not apply to a motor insurance policy.

That is too broad a statement and incorrect, the common law has long held that the owner of any property is liable for damage done by fire escaping from their property, the scope of the Act is to narrow the application of the common law in certain circumstances.

The Act only applies to limiting the liability of the owner of a building or land when there is a purely accidental fire and no negligence on the owner or a third parties contractor for example.

mikeecho wrote: »

The referring court considers, first, that if the fire occurs when the vehicle is stationary, but that fire originates in a function necessary or useful for the movement of the vehicle, that situation should be considered to be linked to the normal function of the vehicle.
I don't think the heating controls are "necessary or useful for the movement of the vehicle"

That point was a consideration by the referring court (the Supreme Court of Spain), not the ECJ

The ECJ confirmed in their ruling that because the definition of vehicle is already satisfied to be covered under compulsory insurance there is no need to distinguish between the parts within a vehicle or their function as to where the fire started.

Phileas Frog · 04-09-2019 11:38AM

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

Look up the Accidential Fires Act (1943), everyone must look after themselves!

CJEU judgements trump your Act

04-09-2019 11:40AM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Never said it's free but technically it is obviously it does eat into ones time, that an unfortunate circumstance of owning a car that has a safety recall.

Look we agree, I just think that the "unfortunate circumstance" should be borne by the recalling party, fully.

dmcsweeney · 04-09-2019 11:41AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Mine was EGR also on an S80.
I have no real sympathy for people not making the time, over several months. Just have small issue with people saying it's all free. When, in fact, it can take a day between getting to the closest main dealer and back (even with only 30minutes of actual work being done)

Think that car companies get away too easy with recalls, knowing the hassle they cause will stop people coming in for all but the most serious cases.

I hear you. So maybe they could do more. And yes there is a cost associated with time. I was glad just to get mine done, even if it was an inconvenience and it cost me time. But you can't put a cost on safety.

04-09-2019 12:03PM

dmcsweeney wrote: »

I hear you. So maybe they could do more. And yes there is a cost associated with time. I was glad just to get mine done, even if it was an inconvenience and it cost me time. But you can't put a cost on safety.

Pretty much, yeah.

The Satanist · 04-09-2019 01:20PM

If Opel are serious about rectifying the ****storm that they've created, why not offer (better still, insist) to collect cars from their owner at 8pm, do the work overnight and have them returned by 6am the following morning? That's assuming that they are actually able to put in a permanent fix on the issue. The cost is something they need to suck up. Maybe next time, design cars that don't spontaneously combustion.

dmcsweeney · 04-09-2019 01:43PM

The Satanist wrote: »

Maybe next time, design cars that don't spontaneously combustion.

The buck may not stop with Opel. Who manufactured the resistor? Very few auto makers make their own electrical components. Is it an issue with the component, or is it a problem with the way the component is installed? Ford had a serious fire issue with brake light switches in the US but they were all made by Texas Instruments.

firemansam4 · 04-09-2019 02:24PM

I own a vauxhaul zafira (imported from NI). This is the first time I have heard about this 3rd recall.

I'm sure there are many others like me who maybe own Vauxhaul not knowing about this 3rd recall.
I got the last recall done while I was getting a service done in an opel dealer in Donegal a few years back, so I am presuming they will do this next one for me as well.

zilog_jones · 04-09-2019 02:30PM

That's pretty bad form. Opel Ireland should be able to find all Zafiras registered in this country, regardless of if they're UK or even Japanese imports (I've seen at least one). Especially seeing as your car has come into contact with their dealer network previously.

Abba987 · 04-09-2019 02:33PM

dmcsweeney wrote: »

It would appear that driving the family around in a potential death trap takes priority for some people. If doing stuff with family is that important you'd think they'd take a few hours to get their cars fixed...for free!! That or they're busy trying to burn down shopping centres. How bloody irresponsible can you get?

God people are so snotty on here. Did i say i wasnt getting it done. Did the other poster ? Im calling out the attitude like its my fault and not opels. There is absolutely no leniency on appointments and I dont know where 20 minutes came from cos the dealers are saying a number of hours.

Why do people have to be so horrible to other posters.
Its a discussion forum. Real people behind these posts. Real people worrying.
These keyboard warriors wouldnt dare speak to people like that in real life

Abba987 · 04-09-2019 02:37PM

The Satanist wrote: »

If Opel are serious about rectifying the ****storm that they've created, why not offer (better still, insist) to collect cars from their owner at 8pm, do the work overnight and have them returned by 6am the following morning? That's assuming that they are actually able to put in a permanent fix on the issue. The cost is something they need to suck up. Maybe next time, design cars that don't spontaneously combustion.

Spot on. This is their fxxk up. They are the ones who should be apologising and accommodating . I didnt even recieve a notice i chased it myself. Bought from an opel dealer. How is that acceptable.

Stallingrad · 04-09-2019 02:39PM

Another reason not to park next to Zafira, usually dings from errant kids, now this.

Abba987 · 04-09-2019 02:42PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

The recall is out since May. Surely with this thread and the reports in the UK the two of you should be making it a priority to get this recall done.

This is what Im talking about with cancellations--people dont seem to get the urgency of getting this done.

Do you work for opel? Why is it not their priority ? Why have they not contacted everybody. ? Who without receiving a formal recall could presume its not their model of car
I bought in opel dealer. My phone number and address have not changed
They are not making much of an effort

04-09-2019 02:54PM

GM228 wrote: »

I'm well aware of the Act and it does not apply to a motor insurance policy.

That is too broad a statement and incorrect, the common law has long held that the owner of any property is liable for damage done by fire escaping from their property, the scope of the Act is to narrow the application of the common law in certain circumstances.

The Act only applies to limiting the liability of the owner of a building or land when there is a purely accidental fire and no negligence on the owner or a third parties contractor for example.

That point was a consideration by the referring court (the Supreme Court of Spain), not the ECJ

The ECJ confirmed in their ruling that because the definition of vehicle is already satisfied to be covered under compulsory insurance there is no need to distinguish between the parts within a vehicle or their function as to where the fire started.

The liability policy limit of €30 million will certainly kick in.

If the insurer gets badly stung (and it looks like they will), I wonder if they will start asking about recalls and loading policies accordingly in future?

Opel Zafira started the car park fire in Cork

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