Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

theguzman · 03-09-2019 07:09PM

Could Boris return to her Majesty and seek a longer prorogation until Nov 1st? I was amazed he didn't just simply choose to suspend Parliament to ensure a No Deal Exit.

sdanseo · 03-09-2019 07:11PM

theguzman wrote: »

Could Boris return to her Majesty and seek a longer prorogation until Nov 1st? I was amazed he didn't just simply choose to suspend Parliament to ensure a No Deal Exit.

He'd be run out of town, pitchforks and all if he did that. Whatever about accusing his current stance as being undemocratic, that would be an unquestionably dictatorial step, regardless of pedantic legality.

prawnsambo · 03-09-2019 07:12PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That’s from a unionist. Mad

1. Any backstop seeks to maintain the status quo of the Good Friday Agreement so CANNOT be in breach of it.
2. A "no deal" brexit breaches the GFA in 9 specific areas. (there are a few more less blatant).

https://twitter.com/snevin1/status/1168933647329742852?s=21

Cynthia Hermon is a rock of sense in what is largely a gibbering mess of unionist politics as illustrated by the DUP. It's a real pity there aren't more like her. Because quite a lot of unionists are and the DUP give them a bad name.

ath262 · 03-09-2019 07:12PM

nice moment when the SO24 debate was raised - from LauraK twtter

"About a dozen or so Tory MP s stood to back Letwin when he called for the emergency debate, opposition MP s even applaud .. mood has to change a lot if govt has any chance of winning"

martingriff · 03-09-2019 07:12PM

Limpy wrote: »

Bull.... The democratic will of the people must be respected. They voted leave. Get over it.

And take those crusty lefties outside Westminster away too.

Yes you are right they voted to leave with many promises the amount of money back to the NHS? are they getting that? How about the fact Rees Mog and others saying there was no possibility of a no deal and they will get a great deal? Have they got that?. Let the people decide if they want to crash out by have an election and voting does who want a no deal if they wish then?

Shelga · 03-09-2019 07:14PM

I know Corbyn has been dire in many respects, and has flip-flopped on Brexit so much that he has lost a huge amount of credibility.

But when you hear him speak today, everything he is saying is sincere and reasonable. He has never been open to the idea of no-deal, at least not publicly. And listening to him now, I believe that he understands how damaging it would be.

I just don't see how anyone can listen to him and Johnson side by side and not quickly come to the conclusion that Corbyn is by far the lesser of two evils.

Stop moaning ffs · 03-09-2019 07:15PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Johnson's performance at the dispatch box earlier in the Commons was dreadful. Like some randomer from off the street. Think the Tories looked shocked at how actually bad this guy is.

People complain about Jeremy and the old doddery geography teacher bit

Keep Boris’ exact performance but change his accent to a deep North Yorkshire accent and what do you get.
He wouldn’t be there

Really think Boris would get where he is (throughout his life never mind PM) if he wasn’t a posh Etonian?
If he had a Yorkshire accent he’d be th loudmouth in the pub.

This whole thing is about optics and privilege and theater. At the cost of a nation in this case.

boggerman1 · 03-09-2019 07:15PM

martingriff wrote: »

So did they just vote Boris as the leader and PM just to see him burn and get him out of politics for ever

Your assumption there is that we are dealing with intelligent people in the Tory party.with the likes of Johnson,raab,and the rest I guess its fairly obvious

gooch2k9 · 03-09-2019 07:16PM

Shelga wrote: »

I know Corbyn has been dire in many respects, and has flip-flopped on Brexit so much that he has lost a huge amount of credibility.

But when you hear him speak today, everything he is saying is sincere and reasonable. He has never been open to the idea of no-deal, at least not publicly. And listening to him now, I believe that he understands how damaging it would be.

I just don't see how anyone can listen to him and Johnson side by side and not quickly come to the conclusion that Corbyn is by far the lesser of two evils.

They come into the situation with a lot of brainwashing about how bad Corbyn would be. Constant negative media from a lot of press outlets over there.

Spanish Eyes · 03-09-2019 07:18PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Cynthia Hermon is a rock of sense in what is largely a gibbering mess of unionist politics as illustrated by the DUP. It's a real pity there aren't more like her. Because quite a lot of unionists are and the DUP give them a bad name.

From polls that I have seen (well you know yourself), the Alliance Party seems to be gaining a lot of ground.

I do realise that they had a Unionist possibly Lib Dem background, not sure, but in the absence of the SDLP being able to make much ground sadly now, they may just push through.

Would be great IMO. But I am sure others will hate me for saying that. We do have to move on though. DUP is doing absolutely nothing for NI and I say this because they are supporting Brexit in C+S with Tories in Westminster, and NI will really suffer from their stance.

SF keeping their powder dry. No need to disturb the "enemy" when they are doing it all by themselves I suppose.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2019 07:22PM

No insults please.

Stop moaning ffs · 03-09-2019 07:24PM

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHH!! wrote: »

What are the chances there is a nationalist majority at the 14 October election in the Six Counties (guaranteeing a border poll under the GFA)?

United ireland being discussed in palrliament. Your appearance is weirdly timely.

Capt'n Midnight · 03-09-2019 07:25PM

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHH!! wrote: »

What are the chances there is a nationalist majority at the 14 October election in the Six Counties (guaranteeing a border poll under the GFA)?

None.

It's First Past The Post and the recent poll shows that half don't consider themselves as either tribe.

It's more probable that SF would stand aside in some areas, and that's something they are very unlikely to do even if it means DUP winning seats.

dublinman1990 · 03-09-2019 07:28PM

Wow. What a powerful moment in the HoC.

All of those opposition MP's & Tory MP's who defected against Johnson have my greatest respect amid throughout all of this chaos.

If someone can give a list of those Tory MP's who went against BJ's wishes by calling for this debate tonight. I will be happy to read their names.

L1011 · 03-09-2019 07:29PM

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHH!! wrote: »

What are the chances there is a nationalist majority at the 14 October election in the Six Counties (guaranteeing a border poll under the GFA)?

Nil. The growth there is in unaligned voters

devnull · 03-09-2019 07:31PM

JRM is turning on Bercow now and questioning his impartiality and trying now to get the rules changed and stating that they are not consistent and the motion should be amended.

Honestly the more I hear from JRM the more I hate the guy, it's just his voice and the manner of speaking and the fake portrayal of innocence.

martingriff · 03-09-2019 07:31PM

boggerman1 wrote: »

Your assumption there is that we are dealing with intelligent people in the Tory party.with the likes of Johnson,raab,and the rest I guess its fairly obvious

Very good point

Stop moaning ffs · 03-09-2019 07:32PM

The cut n thrust Mogg and Bercow. Just brilliant.

sjb25 · 03-09-2019 07:33PM

devnull wrote: »

JRM is turning on Bercow now and questioning his impartiality and trying now to get the rules changed and stating that they are not consistent.

Honestly the more I hear from JRM the more I hate the guy, it's just his voice and the manner of speaking and the fake portrayal of innocence.

Bercow gave him a good shot back bercow is well able for him

Shelga · 03-09-2019 07:33PM

devnull wrote: »

JRM is turning on Bercow now and questioning his impartiality and trying now to get the rules changed and stating that they are not consistent.

Honestly the more I hear from JRM the more I hate the guy, it's just his voice and the manner of speaking and the fake portrayal of innocence.

He certainly let the mask slip yesterday when speaking to that neurologist.
Horrible man, devoid of empathy, loaded with the arrogance and sense of invincibility that seems to be built in to graduation from Eton.

Igotadose · 03-09-2019 07:34PM

devnull wrote: »

JRM is turning on Bercow now and questioning his impartiality and trying now to get the rules changed and stating that they are not consistent.

Honestly the more I hear from JRM the more I hate the guy, it's just his voice and the manner of speaking and the fake portrayal of innocence.

This may be BoJo's greatest crime - inflicting JRM on the world via his appointment as "house leader." What a weasely slime.

Too bad the names of the PM's speaking aren't given; those of us not all that familiar with them

sdanseo · 03-09-2019 07:35PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

None.

It's First Past The Post and the recent poll shows that half don't consider themselves as either tribe.

It's more probable that SF would stand aside in some areas, and that's something they are very unlikely to do even if it means DUP winning seats.

SF would be very quick to point out to voters that PR does not exist for Westminster elections and encourage anyone of a remotely nationalist persuasion to vote tactically.

Headshot · 03-09-2019 07:36PM

Got to love JRM not answering the proroguing questions

He makes BJ look like a saint

devnull · 03-09-2019 07:37PM

sjb25 wrote: »

Bercow gave him a good shot back bercow is well able for him

Indeed, quite a lot of clapping after that.

Have to say Bercow as always is well researched for all of this and is prepared for what they are going to throw at him. He's been a great speaker, could be in his last few days now but he's really not let gameplayers get the better of him.

sjb25 · 03-09-2019 07:37PM

JRM calling others Arrogant.......

amacca · 03-09-2019 07:37PM

sjb25 wrote: »

Bercow gave him a good shot back bercow is well able for him

Just about to post the same thing....

Brew well ahead of him on that.

JRM talking about "stunning arrogance":)

Joe_ Public · 03-09-2019 07:38PM

The absolute mind boggling hypocrisy of this man. Procedural irregularities only matter when they come from the other side. But proroguing parliament, thats perfectly normal apparently. Great to see Bercow ripping him a new one - "I will do my job come what may, do or die."

martingriff · 03-09-2019 07:38PM

Shelga wrote: »

He certainly let the mask slip yesterday when speaking to that neurologist.
Horrible man, devoid of empathy, loaded with the arrogance and sense of invincibility that seems to be built in to graduation from Eton.

What did he say yesterday. All I hear from him is waffle not answering questions until he can give way time and time again

briany · 03-09-2019 07:39PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's looking like Boris will have to break the law if he is going to fulfill his 'promise'.

Looking that way, but even if he's forced to go to Brussels looking for an extension, there's still the small matter of the EU actually agreeing to it. As things stand today at the time of writing this (could be out of date in 2 hours time), Brexiteers' best hope of crashing out on 31/10 is the EU just saying, "Yeah, no..."

An Ciarraioch · 03-09-2019 07:40PM

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHH!! wrote: »

Yes obviously with Alliance so what other way as per the GFA could a border poll come about?

When Hermon was rambling on about it to JRM she said a hard border could incentivise SF to have one and she seems to think it'll pass.

Nationalist parties holding more Stormont (or Westminster) seats than unionist parties, neither bloc in a majority, and Alliance/Greens neutral on the issue.

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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