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What is the actual issue with the Irish Rail seat reservations system

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13

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    #62
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,915 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Being able to 'rock up' at the last minute and catch a train without pre-booking is one of the few remaining advantages offered by rail travel.

    I know you're nostalgic for the days of rail travel on its last legs with the heaps of empty seats of a loss making service.


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    #63
    RedRochey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭RedRochey


    A lot of these problems would be fixed if they just put on extra trains at the busiest times, what does a train hold, 250 people sitting down? If the train leaves at 5 and it's usually packed, have one leave at half 5 for anyone who didn't get a seat, there wouldn't 250 extra people who didn't get a seat


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    #64
    DoctorPan
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭DoctorPan


    StockTwat29 wrote: »

    Not going to call myself an expert but how does it take so long to get extra trains? This problem has been around for years

    5 years run time on average in the industry between placing of orders for new rolling stock and delivery of them.

    The big issue with Irish Rail is NTA has not released funding for the purchase of new rolling stock.


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    #65
    Addle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    StockTwat29 wrote: »
    One problem with that is a lot of people have a free travel card so they don't need to book tickets

    Irish Rail also don't help themselves with only allowing people on the train 10 minutes before it leaves, people end up rushing then and just sitting anywhere

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-rail-customers-face-two-more-years-of-overcrowding-1.3994479

    Not going to call myself an expert but how does it take so long to get extra trains? This problem has been around for years
    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Ideally they should have to make a reservation like everyone else, they're getting it free after all, it won't kill them. Then everyone gets a seat.

    Otherwise it's like India, without the hanging off or getting on the roof of course.

    They can book a seat only reservation.
    Every ticket should have a seat no. whether you book in advance or buy at the station.


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    #66
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Addle wrote: »
    They can book a seat only reservation.
    Every ticket should have a seat no. whether you book in advance or buy at the station.

    That wouldn’t work on commuter trains, obviously. And not very well on longer journeys either. People are prepared to stand if they have to for a while. A seat only system reduces the capacity.


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    #67
    TheShow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭TheShow


    Addle wrote: »
    They can book a seat only reservation.
    Every ticket should have a seat no. whether you book in advance or buy at the station.

    At €5 a pop, why would you pay this if you already pay for an annual ticket, cash monies up front for Irish Rail.

    The commuter population pretty much keep Irish Rail in business and Irish Rail treats them like dirt.
    Poor service, regular delays, annual ticket does not guarantee seat, the list goes on....


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    #68
    Addle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    Why can’t commuter tickets have a seat no. or a free seat reservation service?

    You can reserve a seat for €2.50 in advance. I do it when traveling with a sick relative who has a pass.

    At least if you couldn’t get a seat, you know you’d be standing in advance and could make alternate plans if you were put out by that.


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    #69
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Paddy is used to booking a seat on a flight but can't get his head around a reserved seat on a train. It's the norm to book ahead for a train or long distance bus journey in nearly every other country, here it's "arra shur I'll just turn up and chance it" for some reason.

    It's not hard, it doesn't need a fancy display or staff putting notes on seats, your seat has a number and your ticket has a corresponding number. No reservation, no travel, tough, get the next train.

    People rock up to train stations to buy a ticket all over the world. It’s one of the differences between trains and planes.

    Irish rail’s system isn’t perfect but there are as bad or worse elsewhere. The British system is cards on the backs of seats.

    Edit:

    At least Great Western is.

    GWR are phasing out the card system on their Intercity routes.

    There's a new traffic light and screen system on the IEPs which seems reliable but is being run alongside paper at the moment.

    The traffic lights are:
    Red: Seat is booked from current station
    Orange: Seat is not booked from this station but is at later one.
    Green: Seat is not booked right through to terminus.

    These update at each station and the screens list both the current and any following status for journey.

    It's a very good system.


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    #70
    BeardySi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭BeardySi


    On the 20 minutes business - the website says "please take your seats 20mins prior to departure." That's a request, not a requirement - it makes life easier for everyone but isn't mandatory.

    The actual conditions of carriage which the ticket is subject to say

    "43.5 Reserved seats must be claimed prior to the advertised departure time of the train."

    Unclaimed seats are fair game once the train is moving, but not beforehand.


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    #71
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    devnull wrote: »
    GWR are phasing out the card system on their Intercity routes.

    There's a new traffic light and screen system on the IEPs which seems reliable but is being run alongside paper at the moment.

    The traffic lights are:
    Red: Seat is booked from current station
    Orange: Seat is not booked from this station but is at later one.
    Green: Seat is not booked right through to terminus.

    These update at each station and the screens list both the current and any following status for journey.

    It's a very good system.

    A better system is one which shows the reservation stations. German trains do that in some cases.


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    #72
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    devnull wrote: »
    GWR are phasing out the card system on their Intercity routes.

    There's a new traffic light and screen system on the IEPs which seems reliable but is being run alongside paper at the moment.

    The traffic lights are:
    Red: Seat is booked from current station
    Orange: Seat is not booked from this station but is at later one.
    Green: Seat is not booked right through to terminus.

    These update at each station and the screens list both the current and any following status for journey.

    It's a very good system.

    A better system is one which shows the reservation stations. German trains do that in some cases.

    This is what the screens do next to the light

    It will show for example

    Green light
    Available

    Orange light:
    Avaliable to station name
    Reserved from station to station

    Red light
    Reserved from station to station
    Avaliable from station
    OR
    Reserved from station to station
    Reserved from station to station.

    The light system is just to help you find seat quickly without needing to look at each screen. The screens give the detailed info. Lights stick out from panel so you can see every single light from either end of carriage.


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    #73
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Or more sensibly and a lot less costly would be the reintroduction of paper reservation tickets especially now that train 'hosts' are back. But no, just like the e-voting machines, if we don't bow down to the great God - technology - we will be the laughing stock of Europe

    ****



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    #74
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    devnull wrote: »
    This is what the screens do next to the light

    It will show for example

    Green light
    Available

    Orange light:
    Avaliable to station name
    Reserved from station to station

    Red light
    Reserved from station to station
    Avaliable from station
    OR
    Reserved from station to station
    Reserved from station to station.

    The light system is just to help you find seat quickly without needing to look at each screen. The screens give the detailed info. Lights stick out from panel so you can see every single light from either end of carriage.

    That is a good system.


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    #75
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Or more sensibly and a lot less costly would be the reintroduction of paper reservation tickets especially now that train 'hosts' are back. But no, just like the e-voting machines, if we don't bow down to the great God - technology - we will be the laughing stock of Europe

    How would that be less costly?


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    #76
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    How would that be less costly?

    Easy for people to rip them out and claim the seat was free. Had it done to myself, I was feet away when it was done and shifted the guilty party easily as they knew half the coach saw them lift the reservation cards.

    The Irish population doesn't do rules so even with big signs people have inbuilt refusal to get with the program.


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    #77
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Easy for people to rip them out and claim the seat was free. Had it done to myself, I was feet away when it was done and shifted the guilty party easily as they knew half the coach saw them lift the reservation cards.

    The Irish population doesn't do rules so even with big signs people have inbuilt refusal to get with the program.

    Well, you either provide proper security on trains and make sure people don't interfere with seating arrangements or just give-up any pretence of operating a rail service and let private bus operators takeover. It's not rocket science.

    ****



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    #78
    RedRochey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭RedRochey


    Got the train Friday evening and I'd say it was the most booked out one I've seen in a long time, usually there's a good few free seats but couldn't see any this time, maybe people are starting to book more online now


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    #79
    Daemonic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭Daemonic


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Well, you either provide proper security on trains and make sure people don't interfere with seating arrangements or just give-up any pretence of operating a rail service and let private bus operators takeover. It's not rocket science.

    Or you fix the problems in the present system so it works and isn't easy for people to interfere with.


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    #80
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    That is a good system.

    Works really well and the lights and the display of where the reservations are valid to and from and subsequent statuses according to staff member has resulted in a lot less arguments about reservations between passengers as it makes it much harder for people play the ignorance to reservation card.

    I believe the Enterprise has the same system.


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    #81
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 68,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Well, you either provide proper security on trains and make sure people don't interfere with seating arrangements or just give-up any pretence of operating a rail service and let private bus operators takeover. It's not rocket science.

    You would need a static security guard at each end of each carriage to make sure people don't remove paper cards. There is a damn good reason they're going away and its not some desire to be modern.


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    #82
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    L1011 wrote: »
    You would need a static security guard at each end of each carriage to make sure people don't remove paper cards. There is a damn good reason they're going away and its not some desire to be modern.

    Yeah, like there was a static security guard at each end of a carriage in years gone by when such a system operated.

    ****



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    #83
    RedRochey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭RedRochey


    I've seen them use paper reservations this year for some reason and some people just don't pay any attention and sit down anyway, either sitting on the paper or just thinking its a menu or something

    Then the people who have reserved the seat might be too shy to tell them to move

    Don't see how paper reservations are better than the current system, the main issue of this thread is that the names don't appear sometimes, and that is down to either poor wifi or something about the train being turned off


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    #84
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    StockTwat29 wrote: »
    I've seen them use paper reservations this year for some reason and some people just don't pay any attention and sit down anyway, either sitting on the paper or just thinking its a menu or something

    Then the people who have reserved the seat might be too shy to tell them to move

    Don't see how paper reservations are better than the current system

    Because if properly operated it will not be subject to technical problems which inevitably seem to occur with every electronic gadget introduced to rail vehicles.

    ****



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    #85
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 68,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Yeah, like there was a static security guard at each end of a carriage in years gone by when such a system operated.

    Like there weren't constant problems with cards "going missing".

    There is no "properly operated" way to eliminate that problem. You can pine for the past but it really wasn't better.


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    #86
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Because if properly operated it will not be subject to technical problems which inevitably seem to occur with every electronic gadget introduced to rail vehicles.

    The fact that Irish Rail and their contractors struggle to make electronic passenger information and reservation display systems on their fleets work properly and as well as they should for passengers on a regular basis shouldn't be used to suggest that reliable systems are not available.

    Irish Rail, along with their provider of the passenger information and reservation systems on the bulk of their fleet and their maintenance contractors have showed over many years that they are unable to maintain systems properly on a number of fleets, whether it's down to poor systems, poor maintenance or something else is open to debate but they seem to have far more problems than other providers.


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    #87
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    how can a proper reservation system be a problem? It works on aircraft all the time. Just a seat number, no LED displays or paper tickets on seats.


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    #88
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Many intercity trains on the continent have mandatory reservations ie. everyone who buys a train ticket automatically bets a reservation no standing on intercity trains. Could work on Irish rail or when all seats have been sold sell standing only tickets.


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    #89
    RedRochey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭RedRochey


    Isambard wrote: »
    how can a proper reservation system be a problem? It works on aircraft all the time. Just a seat number, no LED displays or paper tickets on seats.

    Cause people don't end up standing on a plane

    There'll never be more people than seats either


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    #90
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Many intercity trains on the continent have mandatory reservations ie. everyone who buys a train ticket automatically bets a reservation no standing on intercity trains. Could work on Irish rail or when all seats have been sold sell standing only tickets.

    The idea that has been flaunted by some people in the UK that basically all train services that are not very short distance should be mandatory reservation is something that I am absloutely not in favour of and is generally being proposed by leisure travellers who are traveling on dirt cheap advance fares.

    You would kill the walk up and go market and people want open tickets which they can use when they want rather than being tied to particular trains, this is especially important for business travel where meetings over-run or trips can be at short notice. You need a flexible ticket product else it'll just drive people back to their cars.

    With mandatory reservations You then also have the folly of denying people from boarding a peak service because all the seats are booked, even though there might well be people who don't claim their seats or that a person would rather have the option of standing than wait 2 hours for the next train because the operator decides they are not going to allow a passenger that choice.

    Then you have the question of what you do with the people who miss a connection or what you do when the train is cancelled.


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    #91
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    devnull wrote: »
    The idea that has been flaunted by some people in the UK that basically all train services that are not very short distance should be mandatory reservation is something that I am absloutely not in favour of and is generally being proposed by leisure travellers who are traveling on dirt cheap advance fares.

    You would kill the walk up and go market and people want open tickets which they can use when they want rather than being tied to particular trains, this is especially important for business travel where meetings over-run or trips can be at short notice. You need a flexible ticket product else it'll just drive people back to their cars.

    With mandatory reservations You then also have the folly of denying people from boarding a peak service because all the seats are booked, even though there might well be people who don't claim their seats or that a person would rather have the option of standing than wait 2 hours for the next train because the operator decides they are not going to allow a passenger that choice.

    Then you have the question of what you do with the people who miss a connection or what you do when the train is cancelled.

    What I have generally noticed in the continent though is that if a train is booked out you'd generally be able to get first class tickets easily enough as leisure travellers generally wouldn't mind waiting until the next train in order to pay less for second class tickets. Remember aswell many business travellers want the ability to work while on the train which they can't do standing up.


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