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New Setup need some help with 16E -on my new 1Meter Dish

  • 22-08-2019 03:54PM
    #1
    liamtech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭


    Hi Folks

    I finally decided to go fro a proper multi LNB satellite dish - which arrived today

    My plan was to aim this dish at 16E, and pick up 19.2, 13, 9, and 23.5

    Equipment involved:

    1Metre Dish (sab)

    5x LNB Multiconnect Slim Line Inverto Black LNBs

    a 5 LNB Inverto Multiconnect Holder

    switches, cables etc etc

    SO the results are good baring one fact - 16e which the dish is pointed at is VERY sketchy - iv been using a technisat HDFS to do the leg work, as i find its better than my linux box for setting up the dish

    The inverto Multi connect arm and LNB's are set at

    23.5 - 19.2 - 16 - 13 - 9

    results are as follows

    23.5 - 8db Average strength

    19.2 - 10-11 Decent strength

    16 - 6/7DB low strength (Technisat box seems to think its picking up hotbird some times too which is odd as its definitely set to 16e - several 16E only transponders and symbol rates are being picked up)

    13 - Seems stable at 9-10DB average strength

    9 - Roughly same strength as 23.5

    So im genuinely looking for advice on this and thank you in advance - iv been fascinated by this type of set up for years and decided it was now or never

    Below are pictures of my efforts! :)

    https://ibb.co/2qBm2CS
    https://ibb.co/xgWvygd
    https://ibb.co/sF1kdLH
    sF1kdLH
    2qBm2CS
    xgWvygd

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



Comments

  • #2
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    You are expanding your set up at a time that this particular forum seems to be in steep decline with the rise of IPTV :(

    My own setup is relatively idle for the most part now and very underutilised.

    The "photos of your setup" thread above will cover a lot of what you are after.
    If you read thru it, and the threads by Zardoz, Iba, myself and a few others most of your questions will likely be covered.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71176029&postcount=54

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76435560&postcount=99

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83971588&postcount=131


  • #3
    liamtech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭liamtech


    banie01 wrote: »
    You are expanding your set up at a time that this particular forum seems to be in steep decline with the rise of IPTV :(

    My own setup is relatively idle for the most part now and very underutilised.

    The "photos of your setup" thread above will cover a lot of what you are after.
    If you read thru it, and the threads by Zardoz, Iba, myself and a few others most of your questions will likely be covered.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71176029&postcount=54

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76435560&postcount=99

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83971588&postcount=131

    Well I appreciate your help pal.. I have noticed the decline but I have always been an enthustiast for satellite reception (one of those people who, if they could, would have a 2.4 metre dish.. lol)

    Can't use IPTV myself cause my broadband is deplorable - 4G midband so

    I am gonna have another swipe at it .. I knew people had said 16e was flaky but I honestly thought that by making it the center (dish aimed lnb).. I would get a working signal.. btw on the latest scan of 16 I got 10 stations with 'zero services found' on several apparently live transponders.. the transponders read 7-8db on my technisat yet receive no signal.. so something is definitely off..

    Il probably keep updating as this is a project for me! Lol.. obviously welcome any advice and thanks for the links I'm 'scanning em' atm (also having a pint so if the level of English deteriorats my apologies.. lol)

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • #4
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    liamtech wrote: »
    Well I appreciate your help pal.. I have noticed the decline but I have always been an enthustiast for satellite reception (one of those people who, if they could, would have a 2.4 metre dish.. lol)

    Can't use IPTV myself cause my broadband is deplorable - 4G midband so

    I am gonna have another swipe at it .. I knew people had said 16e was flaky but I honestly thought that by making it the center (dish aimed lnb).. I would get a working signal.. btw on the latest scan of 16 I got 10 stations with 'zero services found' on several apparently live transponders.. the transponders read 7-8db on my technisat yet receive no signal.. so something is definitely off..

    Il probably keep updating as this is a project for me! Lol.. obviously welcome any advice and thanks for the links I'm 'scanning em' atm (also having a pint so if the level of English deteriorats my apologies.. lol)

    From memory last time I scanned 16e I got all the providers, definitely a couple of hundred channels including full Tring and DigitalALB.
    It used to be my go to for some 3pms.

    For 16e, on my dish (TD88) raising the azimuth slightly made a huge difference to dB levels.


  • #5
    abarkie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭abarkie


    Pretty sure you used to get Championship feeds on 16e, but don't think I have seen it this season


  • #6
    liamtech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Update!

    Packed it in for the evening! Spent the day on it (now having a few scoops)

    Plan on doing some more fine tuning tomorrow But here are my results thus far (sorted 16E in the end - VERY difficult despite being the center focused Bird)

    19.2 Astra - Ranges from 14.1 -15.8dB 85-90SNR - 86-88% AGC

    16E - as low as 11db up to max of 13ish - SNR usually 70-75 AGC 80-90

    13 Hotbird - Ranges from 13-15dB 85-90SNR 80-88 AGC (Several Weak Transponders - as low as 12dB 77% SNR and 85-90AGC)

    9E - low around 11-12db 60-70% SNR 80-90 AGC

    Shelved 23.5 im wrecked and it was getting dark -

    Wondering again about 16E i think its very low considering the dish is pointed at it - Also hotbird and 9E seem very low considering

    Playing with the idea of refocusing the dish on 13 tomorrow but i will have to see - genuinely welcome any ideas and advice - FYI aside from a monoblock on my last dish this is my first BBQ! so all advice is appreciated! cheers guys! :)

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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  • #7
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    That dish is very low to the ground. If anyone walks in front of the dish it will lose signal.

    The elevation looks wrong. For Multisat, you are looking at setting the elevation in or around 25-27 on the side.

    Looking at the dish head on, the tilt on the bracket should be highest on the left (the highest most easterdly sat). Then do your fine tuning in between.

    To make it simple, add a FTA channel for each satellite to one channel list so you can flick between each to tweak. You can also use webif on your phone to change the channels and peak the signal on each as it has a signal meter built into it .

    By the way, the dish you are using seems to have the same arm as the Triax TD series so you could get a more robust multisat bar that the holder you are using.


  • #8
    liamtech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭liamtech


    STB. wrote: »
    That dish is very low to the ground. If anyone walks in front of the dish it will lose signal.

    The elevation looks wrong. For Multisat, you are looking at setting the elevation in or around 25-27 on the side.

    Looking at the dish head on, the tilt on the bracket should be highest on the left (the highest most easterdly sat). Then do your fine tuning in between.

    To make it simple, add a FTA channel for each satellite to one channel list so you can flick between each to tweak. You can also use webif on your phone to change the channels and peak the signal on each as it has a signal meter built into it .

    By the way, the dish you are using seems to have the same arm as the Triax TD series so you could get a more robust multisat bar that the holder you are using.

    Thanks for the advice - i genuinely picked the Skinny Inverto Multiconnect LNB Arm as it seemed the best for picking up tightly packed Satellites - the Triax 4-Multiblock seemed good - but many people on various forums suggested they had problems getting anything that was further than 4deg appart - i notice that 13-16-19 are literally right next to each other - which works with multi connect (no 23/40mm holders)

    Anyway im now having problems with the Technomate and memory - seems when its fully packed with the 5 birds its memory runs low and its prone to stall/crashing - especially when recording

    Im gonna ask for some advice in the main Satellite forum on boards as i suspect this is a problem not just hitting foreign Sats

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • #9
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    STB's advice as usual is spot on.

    In my own set up individual elevation is crucial.
    Best reception of 16e and 23.5e IME requires both those LNBs to be slightly higher than the usual bar slant for best reception.
    I achieved this by modding my holders.
    Some have fully adjustable LNB holders on their bar, but in general once you get the slope set up most birds will come in ok.


  • #10
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    @ liam

    You will find that the lnb bar you have is flimsy (been there seen that done that).

    The need for those slim Inverto LNBs and that bar is only if you had a few satellite positions on top of each other (28.2 and 26E for example).

    For 13, 16 and 19. Well 13 and 19 are wide enough apart with 2 normal lnbs to slip in a slim 16. Meaning that you would only need one slim lnb (so 3 slims will still work this way). It is the feed horns on traditional lnbs that make it difficult to get those together, not just the holders.

    When you got the Inverto Slims you may have noticed that they come with a black circular insert, that slips over the feed horn. They in turn slip inside the lnb holders on the Triax Multibracket.

    The thing with the triax multibracket is that you can redrill it to get more space on one side than the other. Without drilling it, you can also reverse it so that you get more tilt on the bracket, which is very handy for to maximise signal for the lower easterly satellites. Its certainly more rebust than the skinny metal bar. You'll be wrecking your head otherwise, especially when the weather changes.

    https://www.satworld.ie/4-lnb-holder-triax-type-clone.html

    And a thread to get you interested


  • #11
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    STB. wrote: »
    The thing with the triax multibracket is that you can redrill it to get more space on one side than the other. Without drilling it, you can also reverse it so that you get more tilt on the bracket, which is very handy for to maximise signal for the lower easterly satellites.

    +1 on all the above!
    @STB, apologies I can't believe that when I was throwing out names earlier in the thread I forgot to link to your thread!

    It was that thread that thought me the flip and drill hack ;)


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  • #12
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    @ banie I think I picked up the drill trick from here also.


    I remember taking it a step further by drilling through the tops of the bar to slip in a vertical holder (that I used from a flimsy alu bracket that was good in theory but not in practice). That set up allowed one to do almost anything as you could turn the lnb anyway!


    Then I got lazy and started using a motor which has since packed in, so am back to messing on the TD88. The TD110 sits parked.


  • #13
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    STB. wrote: »
    @ banie I think I picked up the drill trick from here also.

    That hack was one of those things that I'd read about, but until I saw your photo never actually got.

    I repeated a lot of the same mistakes as you tho.
    Went with an aluminium LNB bar set up that in theory seemed to offer ultimate adjustibity but in practice was a delicate mess.

    Went back to the Triax bar and started modding individual holders instead.
    Much sturdier and secure setup that hasn't needed LNB adjustments in years.

    @Liamtech, 1 thing to be aware of re: the slimline inverto LNB is how sensitive their reception is to any slight offset of their feedhorn from a foci point.

    It can be quite frustrating to lock them down in their dedicated bar.

    I'd second STB's advice re: using the adaptor ring and a standard LNB holder on the Triax multibar.
    I have 13', 16' and 19.2 on my own set up with a slimline at 16 and modded holders.

    It just simplifies setup so much.


  • #14
    abarkie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭abarkie


    STB. wrote: »
    Then I got lazy and started using a motor which has since packed in, so am back to messing on the TD88. The TD110 sits parked.

    Must be me, but I think motorised is best.


  • #15
    settopbox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭settopbox


    motorised set up all the way.
    Impressive set up so far though.


  • #16
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,678 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    settopbox wrote: »
    motorised set up all the way.
    Impressive set up so far though.

    Motorised for sheer volume of stuff available and curiosity.
    It quickly wears thin when 99% of your viewing is on 3sats only 15° apart and you have more than one decoder.

    Multisat with duo/quad LNBs gives great flexibility around watch/record and the number of concurrent viewers.

    Couple that with instant channel switches between sats without interrupting someone else's viewing.
    Or the problems that can come with motorised like high winds, chewed gears and so on.

    It is very much horses for courses and about planning your dish setup to fit your needs.
    If you are finding most of what you want to watch within a @25°; arc, a multiLNB setup is far more practical than motorised.


  • #17
    liamtech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Hi Everyone

    Had a difficult week this week so only really back to normal as of now (about an hour ago!)

    STB i understand what your saying and im kicking myself now, i should have gone for the triax obviously - the reasons i passed were the slim design of the inverto multi - also it seemed from looking at the design that there was no central lnb on the triax - finally i fancied the idea of a slam dunk with getting the 5 birds on one dish - this was obviously foolish of me

    im happy that i managed to get 5 birds on my first outing but on reflection i should back track - i will try and get hold of a triax multi block at some point in the future - for now i will plod along with the inverto - cant afford any more sat stuff this month!!! lol

    Are the inverto Slim lnbs decent enough?

    banie01 - i really appreciate your advice - its been a bad week but i might do some work tomorrow to take my mind off it

    I was thinking of recentering the dish on 19.2 - with 16 and 13 offset - i think 23 will improve then, but i imagine i will lose 9

    also have to figure out that memory issue with my box- nothing like a good tech problem to focus the mind after a long week! :)

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • #18
    Zimmerframe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭Zimmerframe


    This thread starting to make me feel nostalgic again and pissed off too. Left my immaculate 1.8m Channel Master dish, face down in the field beside my house while I was putting down concrete. When I was at work, the auld fella put some cows in the field and they trampled it to death. :mad:

    Spent ages faffing about with multi lnbs back in the day and never again, for me motorised all the way. I did have two actuators though, so no matter what went awry, it could be fixed from the armchair. :D


  • #19
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    liamtech wrote: »
    Hi Everyone

    Had a difficult week this week so only really back to normal as of now (about an hour ago!)

    STB i understand what your saying and im kicking myself now, i should have gone for the triax obviously - the reasons i passed were the slim design of the inverto multi - also it seemed from looking at the design that there was no central lnb on the triax - finally i fancied the idea of a slam dunk with getting the 5 birds on one dish - this was obviously foolish of me

    im happy that i managed to get 5 birds on my first outing but on reflection i should back track - i will try and get hold of a triax multi block at some point in the future - for now i will plod along with the inverto - cant afford any more sat stuff this month!!! lol

    Are the inverto Slim lnbs decent enough?

    banie01 - i really appreciate your advice - its been a bad week but i might do some work tomorrow to take my mind off it

    I was thinking of recentering the dish on 19.2 - with 16 and 13 offset - i think 23 will improve then, but i imagine i will lose 9

    also have to figure out that memory issue with my box- nothing like a good tech problem to focus the mind after a long week! :)


    Inverto Slims are fine, the lnb just has a narrower head on them. The triax bracket can be used on your dish when you get around to buying one. You can use your invertos on the triax bracket using the black round adaptor that came with the invertos (goes on the feed horn). The Triax bracket is about 16 euro and give you a 20-22 degree spread.


    The centreing thing. The lnbs can be either side of the centre, so centre is a mute point. You will get 28.2, 23, 19, 16, 13 and 9 on one dish if you wanted to (the Triax Bracket only comes with 4, but you can get extra ones).

    Your box memory problem on the TM. Use new firmware. Dont save picons on the box, dont save epg to internal flash. Have a dedicated usb stick for both. I amswered the q for you in your TM thread.


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