Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Tell me how · 25-08-2019 08:56AM

Forty Seven wrote: »

Aircraft parts, jet engines, aerospace products, precious metals, alcoholic beverages, pharmaceuticals and blood to name a few.

Don't forget the City of London is a major global supplier of financial services. Pretty sure Lloyds insure most large projects globally too.

We also buy the things they want to sell. As the worlds 5th largest economy we still have our uses to the outside world.

Moved to 7th biggest economy since referendum.

Discussed here Friday.

Forty Seven · 25-08-2019 09:01AM

DOCARCH wrote: »

Another fantasy fed by the Brexitocracy to the working classes.

It was actually the Guardian reported that. Not known for their support of Brexit.

Akrasia · 25-08-2019 09:08AM

Forty Seven wrote: »

I have worked and lived in both Poland and Ireland. 15 years in Ireland. Why would I not be a remainer, I'd be mad not to be. I don't believe I said leave was a better option, I said I was sick of the entire subject and no longer cared.

Why so obsessed with the royals? It's such an Irish thing, this obsession. Most of us here neither care nor take interest in their nonsense and they don't factor in our lives.

I won't capaign in a campaign that is over. The leavers won a fair and square referendum. That's democracy, you can't change the mandate because it doesn't suit the few. That's just not cricket.

If you’re sick of talking about Brexit than crashing out is the last thing you should support because it guarantees that Brexit will dominate the headlines for years to come. Holding a 2nd referendum and calling the whole thing off would allow the UK to forget about it and move on.

firemansam4 · 25-08-2019 09:12AM

Forty Seven wrote: »

It was actually the Guardian reported that. Not known for their support of Brexit.

Is this a joke?

All I keep seeing popping up on my news feed is pro Brexit guff from the likes of the Guardian.

FrancieBrady · 25-08-2019 09:12AM

Akrasia wrote: »

If you’re sick of talking about Brexit than crashing out is the last thing you should support because it guarantees that Brexit will dominate the headlines for years to come. Holding a 2nd referendum and calling the whole thing off would allow the UK to forget about it and move on.

True, I would have thought 'Revoke the damn thing' would have been the natural place for a Remain voter to go...not Crash Out/No Deal which will make sure they go deeper into the doo daa and will consume British politics for a long long time to come.

Forty Seven · 25-08-2019 09:12AM

bobmalooka wrote: »

Hmmmm,

UK hasn’t exercised the available control measures over immigration for decades - this is a policy of successive governments, not the EU or pesky NGO’s

This is true, but decades ago we were not watching the migration of the scale we are now seeing since Libya was 'liberated'. Losing control over who we accept once EU passports are handed out scares people. The child rape gangs, the bomb attacks and people like Jihadi Jack have started a conversation (somewhat misguided given the home grown situations of most terrorists) around whether Islam is what we want in this country. The verdict appears to be no.

Forty Seven · 25-08-2019 09:14AM

firemansam4 wrote: »

Is this a joke?

All I keep seeing popping up on my news feed is pro Brexit guff from the likes of the Guardian.

You must be having a laugh? You cannot in all honestly believe what you just typed?

lawred2 · 25-08-2019 09:16AM

It's a strange breed of remain voter that would seek to legitimise that referendum for the shady leave side.

firemansam4 · 25-08-2019 09:17AM

Akrasia wrote: »

If you’re sick of talking about Brexit than crashing out is the last thing you should support because it guarantees that Brexit will dominate the headlines for years to come. Holding a 2nd referendum and calling the whole thing off would allow the UK to forget about it and move on.

I'm afraid your living in fantasy land if you think you won't hear much about Brexit if that happens.

The Brexit crowd over there are not just going to go away, and I actually think a second referendum there will return another leave vote.

They need to have there Brexit, all we can hope for is that they come to there senses and except some sort of deal maybe that just ties NI into the backstop.

Akrasia · 25-08-2019 09:18AM

Forty Seven wrote: »

So you think I am a leaver joining an Irish forum to what end exactly? I've been following this thread for a long time but it was another thread that had me sign up. Blatant lies about the UK construction industry wages in decline when in fact they are rising.

One of the benefits of Brexit it seems. Less immigrants = higher wages. Funny that doesn't match with the opposite we have been fed for decades.

The value of Sterling has fallen by 20% since 2016. That’s a decline of trillions of GBP worth of assets. And they haven’t even left yet

Midlife · 25-08-2019 09:19AM

Forty Seven wrote: »

This is true, but decades ago we were not watching the migration of the scale we are now seeing since Libya was 'liberated'. Losing control over who we accept once EU passports are handed out scares people. The child rape gangs, the bomb attacks and people like Jihadi Jack have started a conversation (somewhat misguided given the home grown situations of most terrorists) around whether Islam is what we want in this country. The verdict appears to be no.

Do you understand that the issues you've mentioned regarding migration have all stemmed pretty much from commonwealth migration?

CelticRambler · 25-08-2019 09:20AM

Forty Seven wrote: »

Aircraft parts, jet engines, aerospace products, precious metals, alcoholic beverages, pharmaceuticals and blood to name a few.

Don't forget the City of London is a major global supplier of financial services.

All areas that have grown significantly on the back of the UK's access to the Single Market, and will suffer from the sudden lack of access to same.

The trade in "precious metals", for example, is essentially a paper exercise and is heavily influenced by the import of gold from places like Switzerland for subequent trade within the EU. The biggest trader has relatively recently moved their operation to Ireland.

As discussed a few days ago, Airbus is known to be considering refocusing its operations on the Asian and American markets, and likely to move its UK manufacturing to those regions (taking advantage of EU FTAs) with a consequent hit to the British economy.

Do you accept that a hard Brexit will cause irreperable damage to the UK's export businesses?

lawred2 · 25-08-2019 09:21AM

CelticRambler wrote: »

All areas that have grown significantly on the back of the UK's access to the Single Market, and will suffer from the sudden lack of access to same.

The trade in "precious metals", for example, is essentially a paper exercise and is heavily influenced by the import of gold from places like Switzerland for subequent trade within the EU. The biggest trader has relatively recently moved their operation to Ireland.

As discussed a few days ago, Airbus is known to be considering refocusing its operations on the Asian and American markets, and likely to move its UK manufacturing to those regions (taking advantage of EU FTAs) with a consequent hit to the British economy.

Do you accept that a hard Brexit will cause irreperable damage to the UK's export businesses?

Well in reality, that doesn't sound great for Airbus' European based manufacturing operations either does it?

Akrasia · 25-08-2019 09:22AM

firemansam4 wrote: »

I'm afraid your living in fantasy land if you think you won't hear much about Brexit if that happens.

The Brexit crowd over there are not just going to go away, and I actually think a second referendum there will return another leave vote.

They need to have there Brexit, all we can hope for is that they come to there senses and except some sort of deal maybe that just ties NI into the backstop.

There will be some hardcore brexiteers like there always were but the vast majority of people would just move on and they absolutely would vote to remain in a 2nd referendum. The demographics have changed and the leave vote is split between no deal, withdrawal agreement supporters.

firemansam4 · 25-08-2019 09:22AM

Forty Seven wrote: »

You must be having a laugh? You cannot in all honestly believe what you just typed?

I get several articles posted on my news feed on my phone quite often and they have all been very much pro Brexit from the guardian from what I have seen.

So yes I can very much believe what I just typed, you can make out that I am imagining it or what ever you want, but I can only comment on what I seen.

I have never actually purchased the Guardian nor do I ever want to.

looksee · 25-08-2019 09:25AM

I think you are confusing them with the Telegraph.

CelticRambler · 25-08-2019 09:27AM

Forty Seven wrote: »

This is true, but decades ago we were not watching the migration of the scale we are now seeing since Libya was 'liberated'. Losing control over who we accept once EU passports are handed out scares people.

Why? Or rather why do you continue to re-elect representatives to Westminster that don't apply the rules of the EU? An EU passport doesn't give the holder the right to do anything other than visit for a few months? If they can't find a job, or justify the value of their presence in their host country, then you can kick them out send them back.

Oh, and in case you didn't realise, the UK is not part of the Schengen Area, so you've got even more control than most of the rest of the EU.

So what exactly is the problem again?

firemansam4 · 25-08-2019 09:27AM

Akrasia wrote: »

There will be some hardcore brexiteers like there always were but the vast majority of people would just move on and they absolutely would vote to remain in a 2nd referendum. The demographics have changed and the leave vote is split between no deal, withdrawal agreement supporters.

But the poles are not supporting this theory, pro Brexit parties are still polling very high, and I dare say in another referendum they just seem much more motivated to vote than the remain crowed who just seem to have lost interest now.

Akrasia · 25-08-2019 09:27AM

lawred2 wrote: »

It's a strange breed of remain voter that would seek to legitimise that referendum for the shady leave side.

Aaron Banks is now being investigated for Diamond Smuggling in connection with the Russians. The biggest political donor in UK history is an asset of the Russian state intelligence services and the campaign he ran was a textbook propaganda disinformation campaign.

He didn’t have to convince everyone, just the small percentage of ‘pursuadables’

And we have seen from many of the brexit supporting posters on this thread, that people can be convinced of facts that are not true, and reasons that are irrational

firemansam4 · 25-08-2019 09:29AM

looksee wrote: »

I think you are confusing them with the Telegraph.

I'll have to check the next few articles that pop up, but I'm pretty sure it was the Guardian logo I keep seeing with what would be mainly pro Brexit articles.
But then maybe I'm not seeing some of the remain stuff for some reason?

CelticRambler · 25-08-2019 09:30AM

firemansam4 wrote: »

I get several articles posted on my news feed on my phone quite often and they have all been very much pro Brexit from the guardian from what I have seen.

Your phone's doing weird things! Can't remember the last time I saw a pro-Brexit article in the Guardian. Maybe the odd contrary opinion piece, but the Guardian is a rare voice of sanity amongst the UK press.

Forty Seven · 25-08-2019 09:31AM

Midlife wrote: »

Do you understand that the issues you've mentioned regarding migration have all stemmed pretty much from commonwealth migration?

Clearly stated that in the brackets.

Right. I'm out. Things to do and I see there is no real discussion here. Enjoy your echo chamber. I may return but I don't have time for this bombardation of closed opinion. The Guardian being pro brexit should have you all cringing if you actually endorse that comment.

Rejoice in your victory, another Brit vanquished by sheer force of numbers. How many have given up talking to you lot now?

bobmalooka · 25-08-2019 09:32AM

firemansam4 wrote: »

I'll have to check the next few articles that pop up, but I'm pretty sure it was the Guardian logo I keep seeing with what would be mainly pro Brexit articles.
But then maybe I'm not seeing some of the remain stuff for some reason?

Guardian is almost exclusively pro-remain/ realistic on brexit I would think.

McGiver · 25-08-2019 09:35AM

Akrasia wrote: »

lawred2 wrote: »

It's a strange breed of remain voter that would seek to legitimise that referendum for the shady leave side.

Aaron Banks is now being investigated for Diamond Smuggling in connection with the Russians. The biggest political donor in UK history is an asset of the Russian state intelligence services and the campaign he ran was a textbook propaganda disinformation campaign.

He didn’t have to convince everyone, just the small percentage of ‘pursuadables’

And we have seen from many of the brexit supporting posters on this thread, that people can be convinced of facts that are not true, and reasons that are irrational

I've been telling this all the time. The Russians are a significant player in this.

Brexit is so misfortunate, because it's aligned several things at once - Russian elite interests, Russian oligarch interests, US oligarch interests, UK elite interests, UK oligarchs interests, English dissatisfaction and systemic failure of UK political system.

firemansam4 · 25-08-2019 09:36AM

Forty Seven wrote: »

You must be having a laugh? You cannot in all honestly believe what you just typed?

bobmalooka wrote: »

Guardian is almost exclusively pro-remain/ realistic on brexit I would think.

Sorry looks like I am getting it mixed up with another UK paper that keeps popping up on my feed. Don't generally follow the uk press much, but have been following Brexit some what and keep seeing lots of pro Brexit articles on my feed.

Nody · 25-08-2019 09:38AM

Forty Seven wrote: »

Aircraft parts, jet engines, aerospace products

Someone must have forgotten to tell Trump that; remember a certain company getting trouble due to Boeing? Yea; US don't really care a whole lot nor does China as they are ramping up their own civilian aviation industry instead.

precious metals

What exactly?

alcoholic beverages

This is going to be hit by sky high tariffs so yea; they can do just fine without it.

pharmaceuticals

You mean the stuff that will no longer be certified in Europe or US by default? Yea; that manufacturing is likely to go the same route as cars I'm sorry to tell you.

Don't forget the City of London is a major global supplier of financial services. Pretty sure Lloyds insure most large projects globally too.

Because of it's connection to EU; once it leaves and becomes a third party there's no reason not to go to NY or Singapore instead and of course there's already the move of the EU related parts of the business to, well, EU. London will diminish and continue to diminish over time as other third party markets step up to get a bigger share from EU. No special rules to protect London after all and seeing how UK government's failure to follow EU data rules while in EU you can guess how things will go while outside EU.

We also buy the things they want to sell. As the worlds 5th largest economy we still have our uses to the outside world.

Well yes; look forward to one sided trade deals with UK being told how the deal will look like; mainly we get to import what we want and we limit what you can sell back. Don't like it? Well tough luck because you're the country without a FTA and UK is very small compared to the blocks out there (you know; how most of the world do deals these days in trade blocks). Oh and China, India etc. will demand more visas as part of the deal; that was what you wanted right; more non EU immigration?

Akrasia · 25-08-2019 09:40AM

firemansam4 wrote: »

But the poles are not supporting this theory, pro Brexit parties are still polling very high, and I dare say in another referendum they just seem much more motivated to vote than the remain crowed who just seem to have lost interest now.

The vast majority of polls put remain very comfortably in the lead and in a referendum campaign with an actual deal being voted on, all of the unicorns will have bolted from the stable and a lot of the ‘No deal’ people would probably abstain in protest

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/uk-poll-results/

First Up · 25-08-2019 09:49AM

Forty Seven wrote: »

Rejoice in your victory, another Brit vanquished by sheer force of numbers. How many have given up talking to you lot now?

More a matter of confusion being vanquished by facts but off you go.

murphaph · 25-08-2019 09:49AM

Forty Seven wrote: »

Clearly stated that in the brackets.

Right. I'm out. Things to do and I see there is no real discussion here. Enjoy your echo chamber. I may return but I don't have time for this bombardation of closed opinion. The Guardian being pro brexit should have you all cringing if you actually endorse that comment.

Rejoice in your victory, another Brit vanquished by sheer force of numbers. How many have given up talking to you lot now?

Did you expect much support for Brexit on an Irish forum?

murphaph · 25-08-2019 09:52AM

McGiver wrote: »

I've been telling this all the time. The Russians are a significant player in this.

Brexit is so misfortunate, because it's aligned several things at once - Russian elite interests, Russian oligarch interests, US oligarch interests, UK elite interests, UK oligarchs interests, English dissatisfaction and systemic failure of UK political system.

Of course they are. Putin is trying to destabilise both the EU and NATO and he's doing a pretty good job of it. The US and UK populace have been played like fiddles.

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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