Third Irish forestry fund.

Tow wrote: »

There is still PRSI and USC to pay, it is only Income Tax exempt. You should be filling up A Form 11/12 next year for the payment.

Does anyone have figures to hand on the amount of Government Grant they received, per fund, hector share etc?

you're kidding, right - PRSI and USC on this pittance ?

galwaytt wrote: »

you're kidding, right - PRSI and USC on this pittance ?

Actually probably not, any gain (probably a loss when inflation applied) is under the various limits.

millb wrote: »

Reasonable Post ... I had a Forestry Investment Plan (10th) that gave roughly 1.x% ROI.. IIRC 2 or 3 years ago and that was very poor... and a signal / warning ...

I also got a cheque today for the 6th Fund (1999) which gave me a ROI of 2.79% compounded monthly.. (over 20 years)

That return is not great and ~half of what I expected (eg 6+%) at the start.

I can see why they "sold-up" and compared to many "investment" schemes at least one got the money back plus something to account for inflation !! No Tax phew.. Their accounts seemed to be in reasonable order but ultimate profit dependent on timing / mixed factors etc... They should have had a RISK / return scenario graph on each annual account to manage expectations and show how their cost model had deviated over time..

I have to say I cannot see why they sold up at this stage and that is the main issue for me in this.

AXA clearly see a profit to be made in their investment so there would have to be a clear rationale for the fund manager to sell now. They need to clearly set out the reasons why they saw no additional value for shareholders in the next 10 years to maturity.

Its galling that after 20 years the return on investment per share is probably the equivalent of 1 weeks salary for Brosnan etc. Who will continue to earn a salary off this investment gonng forward.

So in effect, taking into account inflation etc, all we get as original shareholders is our original money back and all the 'extra' value has funded salaries/fees for 20 years....

Spain Calling wrote: »

Look, all of these company directors and spin offs are NOT impacted whatsoever in this investment. They had and still have a good life from their salaries accrued from our investments and government grants and they are fully aware what they are doing to the investors and have no regrets at all. In their company philosophy we are not ordinary Irish people trying to invest personal money in the hope of a satisfactory gain. Instead we are a share holder number putting money into their plans for a better and richer life. Get out there right now on any social media platform you can and tell the facts. Quote factual information from this forum if you want. Continue with this until further action is taken up by a group of shareholders.

Post up a link to the social media posts you have done thanks

Movementarian wrote: »

I have to say I cannot see why they sold up at this stage and that is the main issue for me in this.

I agree.

The accounts go on about Brexit uncertainty so for this and many other reasons I think we should have left them in the ground growing for another 10 years.

Absolutely disgusted myself and wish shareholders taking action the very best in their endeavours.
I had 1 share in Fourth fund = €1,096.90

But From a Cynical point of view surely these Directors are legends among the Professional/ Wealthy even Political classes… They have taken money from the working/middle class people and put it to productive use, generated employment, helped the Country reduce its carbon footprint etc etc
"Supposedly" all the while complying with Corporate rules and regulations.

And the investors even got their money back with a dividend.

There will be Companies queuing up to get these guy onto their Boards of Directors.


Thanks for all the great posts on this thread.

Phoebas wrote: »

It seems clear to me why they sold up early - they got an offer for the whole kit and caboodle.

And the continued job of managing the kit and caboodle, so no having to deal with the unwashed public with their Mickey Mouse investments. Win Win.

Phoebas wrote: »

It seems clear to me why they sold up early - they got an offer for the whole kit and caboodle.
Back a few years ago they were struggling to close off some of the 'growth' funds - investors were waiting for 2 years iirc after the fund had matured to get their return and then it was even worse than many of the refurns today are showing.

It's a very poor return for sure, but I can understand why the directors made the choice they made.

Oh I can do, but for different reasons.

Ok I actually think each shareholder was charged a fee and this was taken out of our return. I got €1111.28 on my €634 (1 share) investment but I know someone who had 13 shares (£6500 punts worth) of the same fund and got €31,000 approx 7% per year compound. If that was the case I should have got €2300 so I think I’ve been charged €1200 for something and it’s been taken out of my earnings. WTF???? This is getting weirder.

5th Fund €1061.50 2.6%
7th Fund €1067.58 2.77%

Its clear that the interest of the shareholders is not taken into consideration by any of the parties involved in the sale of funds and plans. I do not approve the sale nor will I cash any cheque that lands on my doormat. Accepting the money is agreeing with the sale.

No I had shares in 7 different growth plans (€750 initial investment) & the most I got for any was €1106.35 & that was for the 6th growth plan (03/12/2008)

I invested in a number of these funds between 1998 and 2010. Some observations in addition to what was covered by others earlier:

Comparing the returns at time of sale against what the prospectus forecast - the earlier funds delivered the least when compared to what was promised. The Third Irish Forestry Fund - delivered 12% of what was forecast at time of sale. The Sixth Forestry Growth Plan - delivered 62% of what was promised at time of sale. The Ninth Forestry Growth Plan - delivered 73% of what was promised at time of sale. You would've expected the greater potential value to be in the earlier funds which were c.20 years through their growth cycle and would've started when forestry plantations were more in its infancy. Later Funds invested in existing plantations.

There was a time when the covering letter with the annual accounts gave a valuation of the shares. For the earlier funds the last of these were in 2011: e.g. The 'Third' valued at €1,632 in 2011 yet sold in 2019 for €1,313. The 'Fifth' valued at €1,496 in 2011 yet sold for in 2019 for €1,062.

Had shares in the Eleventh Forestry Investment Plan which were valued by 'Irish Forestry Funds' at €1,087 per share in 2014 yet sold for €877 in 2015. I contacted them at the time and got the 'better than average return' line. I did emphasis at the time that they were misleading people by giving valuations and then selling for less than that. They also told me they wouldn't be giving valuations again with the accounts cover letter.

The annual accounts for each of the funds should've given a revised forecast to manage investors expectations. It was obvious they were expecting returns to be less as over time the forecasted return with each new fund decreased from 14.4% to 7.5%.

Disappointed with the auditors - sometimes it is what is not in the accounts is what is missed by them. The accounts were for the benefit of the investors and never included valuations.

Irish Forestry Funds created false expectations in investors heads and continued with this right to the end, even when they would've known for a number of years that they were way under what they promised.

My expectations as to what the final outcome would be for the various funds would have reduced significantly following experiences with funds that liquidated in earlier years. However the announcements which accompanied the sale to Axa gave me false hope. 'Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...' comes to mind.

Time to move on but will keep in touch with these boards to see if anyone comes up with any possible comebacks which would be happy to be on board with if they do.