TV licence collection privatised and replaced with device licence fee in 5 years

Pa ElGrande · 03-08-2019 07:52AM

RTE is NOT an essential service you can switch it off now and live the rest of your life without it. You do need water and other infrastructure, RTE is none of those things it is a multimedia company that provides entertainment and some information.

Unfortunately in the current environment RTE in co-operation with government ministers and TDs are not content to leave me alone and are intent on pursuing me for a portion of my income even though I want nothing to do with them.

redlead · 03-08-2019 07:56AM

Clearly the ludicrous salaries need to be sorted out and until they do that they are just going to be an easy target, but for anyone to compare RTÉ to an entertainment service like Netflix is just wrong.

A public broadcaster plays a crucial role in delivering domestic content as well as nationally relevant programming that doesn't just cater for the lowest common denominator. There would be a massive hole without them that would be just filled with repeat English and American shows.

There needs to be radical reform around their mission and costs but can people please stop pretending the don't benefit from it in some way.

eagle eye · 03-08-2019 08:00AM

Pa ElGrande wrote:

When you stop paying your licence you will receive a series of increasingly threatening letters from AN POST on behalf of RTE unless you sign a declaration that you no longer have a TV (Don't sign this, if you do and break the law they will use it against you and you will receive a heavier fine up to â‚¬1000). This will be followed by an inspection whether you sign the declaration or not. Are you are prepared to go to jail over â‚¬160? few are.

Did you read my post? I said if it goes to a private company I'll stop paying.

InTheShadows · 03-08-2019 08:26AM

celtic_oz wrote: »

1. Ryan Tubridy: €495,000

2. Ray D’Arcy: €450,000

3. Joe Duffy: €389,988

4. Sean O’Rourke: €308,964

5. Marian Finucane: €300,617

6. Miriam O’Callaghan: €299,000

7. Claire Byrne: €216,000

8. Bryan Dobson: €198,146

9. George Hamilton: €186,195

10. Mary Wilson: 185,679

As long as this continues i will continue to not pay the licence fee. The one that really grinds my gears is Ray Darcy, 450k quid a year. It would take me 15 years plus to earn that and he is awful really awful. These guys are living on another planet. :mad:

Pa ElGrande · 03-08-2019 08:39AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Did you read my post? I said if it goes to a private company I'll stop paying.

It can still be a private company with a public service mandate otherwise how will politicians get free publicity? In such case they will still maintain a tax claim on you and if you don't agree then I outlined what the current mechanism is for tax collection as a guide to that possible future.

Ush1 · 03-08-2019 08:55AM

Boggles wrote: »

Why stop at classical music, can't you get almost everything on youtube or spotify?

2 reasons to shut a radio station, they have one in Britain and Spotify.

Truly bizarre.

You spelled "not commercially viable" wrong.

Pa ElGrande · 03-08-2019 09:11AM

redlead wrote: »

Clearly the ludicrous salaries need to be sorted out and until they do that they are just going to be an easy target, but for anyone to compare RTÉ to an entertainment service like Netflix is just wrong.

A public broadcaster plays a crucial role in delivering domestic content as well as nationally relevant programming that doesn't just cater for the lowest common denominator. There would be a massive hole without them that would be just filled with repeat English and American shows.

There needs to be radical reform around their mission and costs but can people please stop pretending the don't benefit from it in some way.

RTE are a multimedia company that delivers advertising, entertainment and news primarily aimed and an audience based in the Republic of Ireland. There is nothing special about them compared with other multimedia companies other that they exclusively target an Irish audience and have access to tax payer funds. Not consuming RTE TV has saved me something close on €1600 since 2008 and for the record I don't consume other domestic TV content either and nor do I listen to RTE radio. The only time I stumble on RTE is due to internet searches (Google news) or at my neighbours or parents house on the occasions that I visit them. If RTE want to put up a paywall I have no objection to that and I am advocating they do just that via a tiered subscription service.

All this talk about reform and salaries is just ranting, RTE will never change while they have a disconnect between how they obtain funding and consumer feedback, giving them access to general taxation funds and asking for "reform" is just writing a blank cheque and telling them to dance to whatever is the politically correct tune of the day while the audience moves onNorth Korean TV becomes more exciting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBJ0k5TvjZs

Loafing Oaf · 03-08-2019 09:13AM

Always Tired wrote: »

I will never fcuking pay it, got rid of my TV ages ago and will not pay any new fees for my phone or laptop.)

eagle eye wrote: »

As soon as this goes to a private company I'm not paying it anymore.

tim3000 wrote: »

I wont be paying for this there is not a hope in hell that I would volunteer 160 euros to pay for Fair City or Joe Duffy..

Are you guys prepared to go to jail over this though? Because that's what it'll come to if you stand your ground.

KindOfIrish · 03-08-2019 09:20AM

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

RTE is NOT an essential service you can switch it off now and live the rest of your life without it. You do need water and other infrastructure, RTE is none of those things it is a multimedia company that provides entertainment and some information.

Unfortunately in the current environment RTE in co-operation with government ministers and TDs are not content to leave me alone and are intent on pursuing me for a portion of my income even though I want nothing to do with them.

It is an essential service. You can't imagine that can be done with brains of your compatriots in a matter of few years, if the service will fall in hands of unscrupulous private persons.

jaxxx · 03-08-2019 09:29AM

Here's an alternative: how about RTE starts making actual quality content to lure people back the genuine way instead of trying to create stupid f*cking taxes? What's next, gonna tax us for using Skype/Viber to subsidise Eir, or tax us on solar panels to subsidise the ESB? F*ck off.

73bc61lyohr0mu · 03-08-2019 09:32AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Are you guys prepared to go to jail over this though? Because that's what it'll come to if you stand your ground.

I will...

tim3000 · 03-08-2019 09:34AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Are you guys prepared to go to jail over this though? Because that's what it'll come to if you stand your ground.

There are worse things than facing a judge. Just out of interest do you know what the penalties are for evasion of this? I knew a lad who was jailed and fined for it he had to spend 4 hrs in a cell if memory serves.

Mortelaro · 03-08-2019 09:40AM

You're unlikely to be jailed as jails are too full for no licence but you can kiss many things goodbye including entry to the USA and various working visas to Canada or Australia thanks to the criminal conviction

A tv licence is a tax
Like all taxes,it pays for some things we don't like or disagree with
But theres a quid pro quo in that your likes or stuff you want paid for other taxpayers object to but have to pay

Pa ElGrande · 03-08-2019 09:44AM

KindOfIrish wrote: »

It is an essential service. You can't imagine that can be done with brains of your compatriots in a matter of few years, if the service will fall in hands of unscrupulous private persons.

You have not outlined WHY it is an essential service. You can switch RTE off today and live the remainder of your life without it. The service is therefore not necessary and it can be disposed of.

If you want to make an argument for RTE then argue for it in terms of value for money and quality of the entertainment and information it provides you and whether these services can be provided at a better price.

I will argue that as the TV tax is linked to none of these attributes that the current pricing structure is wrong and they are wasting resources as evidenced by the loss they are turning in. In fact the TV tax is probably distorting the market to the extend that some people are being over paid while others are underpaid and the consumers are being served an inferior product. It is quite possible that consumers who value RTEs product are prepared to pay more for a better service and a subscription model would enable RTE to provide that.

Wanderer78 · 03-08-2019 09:44AM

Mortelaro wrote:

You're unlikely to be jailed as jails are too full for no licence but you can kiss many things goodbye including entry to the USA and various working visas to Canada or Australia thanks to the criminal conviction

I know a chap with a conviction that got into both America and Australia, and it was a more serious offense than not paying a TV licence

eagle eye · 03-08-2019 09:45AM

Mortelaro wrote:

A tv licence is a tax

Yes you are right and I've always paid it. I'm not supporting a private company collecting taxes under any circumstance.

SeaFields · 03-08-2019 09:46AM

InTheShadows wrote: »

As long as this continues i will continue to not pay the licence fee. The one that really grinds my gears is Ray Darcy, 450k quid a year. It would take me 15 years plus to earn that and he is awful really awful. These guys are living on another planet. :mad:

The numbers on their own are immaterial really. You must view them against the market. Someone did this before with the popular British broadcasters (sorry no link - I recall seeing it online somewhere) and as one would have expected the salaries are off the scale in rte relative to audience served.

Loafing Oaf · 03-08-2019 09:46AM

Mortelaro wrote: »

You're unlikely to be jailed as jails are too full for no licence but you can kiss many things goodbye including entry to the USA and various working visas to Canada or Australia thanks to the criminal conviction

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/an-post-takes-11-693-to-court-over-nonpayment-of-tv-licence-in-2017-1.3405139

Only a tiny fraction of cases end in imprisonment

What happens to the bulk of those who refuse to pay the fine then?

nw5iytvs0lf1uz · 03-08-2019 10:06AM

I have no issue with the license as long as all channels and tv production companies including online only are allowed access to funds to produce programming
It cannot continue to be used for rte staff salaries that are unjustified

CelticSeaShip · 03-08-2019 10:27AM

CollyFlower wrote: »

I'm all for marching when the time comes,... It'll be like IW, they'll back down if we come out in force and protest!

No one is going to go out in force and protest. These new rules and the device licence only effects a small % of society. A sizeable portion of society pays a TV licence. The rest that don't pay a licence is probably broken up into those who legitimately don't have a TV and don't need to pay and those who do have a TV and don't pay. The device licence is trying to drag everyone into the net and its only small % of people. No one will march the streets over this.

CelticSeaShip · 03-08-2019 10:35AM

Ireland has a housing crisis with people homeless staying in shelters and being put up in hotel rooms. This crisis is as a result of the 08 recession. The US and the UK who also suffered a recession are experiencing similar problems, so its very deep and its not going to be fixed over night or any time soon.

How on earth is this going to work for homeless people? I presume many would have a mobile phone which would be considered a device for this device licence fee. How is something like this going to be implemented for that section of society?

eagle eye · 03-08-2019 10:36AM

CelticSeaShip wrote:

No one is going to go out in force and protest. These new rules and the device licence only effects a small % of society. A sizeable portion of society pays a TV licence. The rest that don't pay a licence is probably broken up into those who legitimately don't have a TV and don't need to pay and those who do have a TV and don't pay. The device licence is trying to drag everyone into the net and its only small % of people. No one will march the streets over this.

A private company is going to get a contract to collect tv license fees and then device license fees when it changes. I won't have that, leave things as they are as regards payment and management of tv licenses. I don't care I f you change it to device license but if you hand it over to a private company then you won't get a red cent from me.
I'd imagine there are a lot of people who won't be happy with a private company doing this.
If it comes down to it I'd be willing to go device free rather than pay a private company.

McMurphy · 03-08-2019 10:38AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Are you guys prepared to go to jail over this though? Because that's what it'll come to if you stand your ground.

Lol.

CelticSeaShip · 03-08-2019 10:40AM

eagle eye wrote: »

A private company is going to get a contract to collect tv license fees and then device license fees when it changes. I won't have that, leave things as they are as regards payment and management of tv licenses. I don't care I f you change it to device license but if you hand it over to a private company then you won't get a red cent from me.
I'd imagine there are a lot of people who won't be happy with a private company doing this.
If it comes down to it I'd be willing to go device free rather than pay a private company.

Yeah, I'm not impressed with the idea of a private company being given a contract to collect licence fees. At the end of the day, they are going to be out to make a profit and that doesn't sit well with me.

CelticSeaShip · 03-08-2019 10:44AM

It will be interesting to learn who's going to pick up on the device licence collecting?

I wonder would it be a well known investor and friend to FG?

Pa ElGrande · 03-08-2019 10:49AM

CelticSeaShip wrote: »

It will be interesting to learn who's going to pick up on the device licence collecting?

I wonder would it be a well known investor and friend to FG?

You mean Comrade Di Ho Bi. It's going to An Post, the advertisement for tenders is just an optics exercise to preserve the illusion that this not state aid.

Mortelaro · 03-08-2019 10:50AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/an-post-takes-11-693-to-court-over-nonpayment-of-tv-licence-in-2017-1.3405139

What happens to the bulk of those who refuse to pay the fine then?

They get a criminal record which is harmful to a lot of things you might want sometime

toleratethis · 03-08-2019 10:52AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Always Tired wrote: »

I will never fcuking pay it, got rid of my TV ages ago and will not pay any new fees for my phone or laptop.)

eagle eye wrote: »

As soon as this goes to a private company I'm not paying it anymore.

tim3000 wrote: »

I wont be paying for this there is not a hope in hell that I would volunteer 160 euros to pay for Fair City or Joe Duffy..

Are you guys prepared to go to jail over this though? Because that's what it'll come to if you stand your ground.

I'm unsure of the repercussions, but I think I might. I've no interest in going to US or Australia, am middle aged now I suppose, of good character, self employed so how will a trip to court, followed by a taxi ride to mountjoy (or where ever) to be processed and released a few hours later to find the nearest Citylink home impact me negatively?

What I object to is paying for a service I genuinely believe is ****e - something there's a fair bit of evidence in favour of on this thread and all over soc media. I'm forced to pay for wages of people who are woefully undertalented for the salaries they receive, a beige, bland, and boring TV schedule full of repeats of repeats. A public service broadcaster which fawns over the government of the day precisely because they're dependent on the license fee that government controls.

While we DO pay the TV license fee now, grudgingly, when it starts to apply to tablets, laptops, and is collected by a private company, they may sod off, I will not pay.

The one series I can recall that I thought was good was on TG4 called Bádóirí, and I don't even speak Irish!

Have a national vote by turning RTE into an opt in or pay per view service, both online and on radio & television. Then the people who want it, value it, will pay for it and the rest of us can spend that € fee as we wish.

gman2k · 03-08-2019 10:54AM

I'm sick of this argument - "I don't even watch RTE, therefore why should I pay for it"
It's a public service, that benefits everybody directly and indirectly.
I don't use or never will use the new Children's hospital, but am happy to be living in a society that can have one.
That new road planned between Cork and Limerick- will probably never use it, but again, it's to better society.
RTE news and current affairs have contributed immeasurably to Irish society, the current hoohaw over Creches wouldn't be a national talking point without Primetime. Even those who don't watch RTE or didn't see the programme are now aware of the issue.
Are there too many overpaid presenters on RTE? Probably yes.
Do we need two orchestras? Probably not.
RTE punches well above it's weight considering for many people they compare it to the BBC who are probably the best TV station in the world.
Anybody who has travelled outside of home will attest to how crap TV quality is in other countries.
It is beyond obvious that a national broadcaster is good for society.
The simple solution is to just add the cost to the property tax, no need for private company involvement, no get out clauses, no chasing people through the courts for non payment.

markodaly · 03-08-2019 10:54AM

Boggles wrote: »

Like I said that is an impossible question for me to answer, by that barometer nearly everything is up for the chop. I don't think we should kill things on that basis.

Public service has to cater for everyone, it gets about 300,000 listeners.

I like electro-indie-punk hip-hop. Where is my dedicated radio station?

Lyric FM attracts about 1.8% of the national listenership and there are loads of other free options out there to cater for the tastes of classical music.

No reason why the state should fund it if there are ready-made, free alternatives.

TV licence collection privatised and replaced with device licence fee in 5 years

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