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Turning left in car with cyclist behind you

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12467…11

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    #92
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    bobbyss wrote: »
    Just to be clear. Is it ok ( ie lawful) for a cyclist to be cycling BETWEEN two lanes as traffic is stopped at lights? Sometimes the space is tight and side mirrors could be clipped?

    It's legal. In such a situation, the cyclist is using the same lane as a car but is not in the primary position in the lane.

    I have no idea what point you're trying to make about side mirrors getting clipped.. obviously the cyclist shouldn't try to squeeze through such a space.


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    #93
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,218 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    The Enbalmer wrote: »
    I rest my case.


    :rolleyes:

    You don't have a case.


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    #94
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    beauf wrote: »
    its called filtering. I don't think there is a specific filtering law for cyclists in Ireland.

    I didn't know the name for it. Good to know!
    Motorists can get so annoyed to see cyclists filtering. Some seem to think it's against the law and that cyclists should wait behind cars when traffic isn't moving.

    "Taking the lane", or adopting the primary position, also annoys motorists. To safely make a right turn, a cyclist needs to give a hand signal and move from the secondary position on the road (the left hand side), into a primary position (which means motorists can no longer use the lane), and towards the right-hand side of the road. Some idiotic drivers trip over themselves to prevent a cyclist changing lane or making a right turn. It can be particularly dangerous at roundabouts, in fact I often use pedestrian crossings at (signal-controlled) roundabouts because some drivers are so shocking with regards to the lane they should be in, right of way, observance, etc.


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    #95
    The Enbalmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭The Enbalmer


    07Lapierre wrote:
    You don't have a case.


    Nor do you pal. You left the circle jerk of the cycling forum to try and shut down any negative discussion on cycling.
    That's what you people do.
    Quite sad really when all you're doing is making people hate cyclists all the more .


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    #96
    bobbyss
    Registered Users Posts: 5,190 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    antix80 wrote:
    I have no idea what point you're trying to make about side mirrors getting clipped.. obviously the cyclist shouldn't try to squeeze through such a space.


    If a cyclist tries to filter at speed through a space between stationary cars and he or she misjudges ( space wasn't wide enough) there is a chance side mirrors will be clipped or car scraped.


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    #97
    The Enbalmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭The Enbalmer


    bobbyss wrote:
    If a cyclist tries to filter at speed through a space between stationary cars and he or she misjudges ( space wasn't wide enough) there is a chance side mirrors will be clipped or car scraped.


    And typically no way of identifying the cyclist to pay for the damage as well as no insurance from which the driver can claim.


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    #98
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    I still have no idea what point you're making. They shouldn't proceed and if they caused damage they'd be liable for it.

    It would be like a motorist in a carpark, seeing a very small space and deciding to squeeze in, at speed, and taking the side off a parked car. Some people are idiots. It doesn't mean it should be illegal to park.


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    #99
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,218 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    The Enbalmer wrote: »
    Nor do you pal. You left the circle jerk of the cycling forum to try and shut down any negative discussion on cycling.
    That's what you people do.
    Quite sad really when all you're doing is making people hate cyclists all the more .

    I'm not trying to close anything down. See that's another "assumption" you've made which is also incorrect.

    The phrase highlighted above clearly shows that you are not capable of a rational discussion. You are set in you ways and will never change. Nothing I (or anyone else i suspect) say will change your ill-informed opinions.


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    #100
    scamalert
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    that's a bit stupid question, cyclists have to abide road rules like rest, if it was motorbike or lorry they would have to slow down and let you turn, cyclists should be aware of those rules simple.

    Thou witnessed different situations few years back, two lane road with clear white line and further away split off for those turning right, once approached split off person was indicating right and turned into lane right hand lane nearly getting bashed by fckn motocyclist who decided to drive over white line on opposing traffic to skip. theoretically minute motorbike crossed white line he was breaking rules, but doubt that would hold in court, yet i see it everyday motorbikes taking on opposing lane to pass traffic, with no consequences - total pi$$ take, as most would do 60km/h easily.

    so better question who would be at fault if say such situation occurred and one splashed into car that decided to turn given that most drivers would only look at incoming traffic ?


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    #101
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,218 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    bobbyss wrote: »
    If a cyclist tries to filter at speed through a space between stationary cars and he or she misjudges ( space wasn't wide enough) there is a chance side mirrors will be clipped or car scraped.

    This also happens on narrow roads when two vehicles approach each other and mis-judge the width of the road.


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    #102
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    The Enbalmer wrote:
    This paranoid idea that car drivers are all out to mill cyclists is devisive,dangerous nonsense.


    Bit rich accusing others of being devisive no?


    The Enbalmer wrote:
    Exactly. Lots of cyclists have never driven a vehicle and have no idea about the rules of the road or choose to ignore them.
    The Enbalmer wrote:
    Cycling has always been a cheap way to get around,the MAMIL generation are the ones who have cars..ironic really as generally they make the worst cyclists.
    The Enbalmer wrote:
    In that they cycle without due care and attention..are usually aggressive and often deliberately try to provoke other road users.

    The Enbalmer wrote:
    I anticipate a "wagon-circling" of the usual suspects from the cycling forum whereby they deny that cyclist ever cause problems on the roads and that all motorists are bloodthirsty maniacs out to kill a quota of "2-3 people a week".

    The Enbalmer wrote:
    It has to do with how do cyclists KNOW anything about the rules of the road or driving etiquette when they can simply jump on a bike without knowing the first thing about either.

    So why are untrained people allowed to use public highways?




    The Enbalmer wrote:
    The "X-Factor" being the fact that cyclists don't need to learn the rules of the road and as such can be unpredictable.

    What qualifies a cyclist to be on the road in the 1st place,given they don't require any training or need to display any documentation?



    The Enbalmer wrote:
    Nor do you pal. You left the circle jerk of the cycling forum to try and shut down any negative discussion on cycling.
    That's what you people do.
    Quite sad really when all you're doing is making people hate cyclists all the more .


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    #103
    ZeroThreat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    I've a full clean driving licence.
    I've a car and use it both to commute and for private, social and domestic stuff.
    I also cycle on main roads both commuting and for leisure. I aim to cycle several hundred km per week.
    I abide by traffic lights and other road traffic laws when cycling (although occasionally I must break a red as they won't change for me).
    I can confirm that many motorists who presumably also have passed a test should not be allowed drive. Their spatial awareness is atrocious. Use of their phones is rampant. Speeding past vulnerable road users (not just cyclists) with insufficient space for any errors.
    Many professional drivers are amongst the worst to be honest. Unless you've cycled you wouldnt believe it!

    If you include taxi drivers under that category I'd wholeheartedly agree.


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    #104
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bobbyss wrote: »
    If a cyclist tries to filter at speed through a space between stationary cars and he or she misjudges ( space wasn't wide enough) there is a chance side mirrors will be clipped or car scraped.

    This is why when stuck in traffic when driving, I try to keep a gap wider on one side of me to allow cyclists to filter. if you leave a gap thats more attractive they tend to take that option rather than the narrow one. You can also close a gap so they rule it out as an option.


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    #105
    og2k7
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭og2k7


    Being both a cyclist (commuting for 10 months a year) and a driver for 2 months (summer when kids are off school) : as a cyclist i slow down and expect the driver to turn without seeing me, as a driver I expect the cyclists not to slow down and wait for all of them to pass so I can turn left

    After doing the cycling safety test in Scotland (I never thought about the primary position etc - always kept to max left) - so if I know there are turns when drivers will just turn left (or super narrow roads) I assume the primary position, so the cars cannot overtake me to turn left

    Apologies for getting back to the topic ;)


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    #106
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    i have found that indicating early for a left turn encourages cyclist to speed up and overtake on the left just as i reach the turn. cant win!


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    #107
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i have found that indicating early for a left turn encourages cyclist to speed up and overtake on the left just as i reach the turn. cant win!

    Use your brake.


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    #108
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    bobbyss wrote: »
    Thanks. I feel you are right. I entered slow enough but the cyclist came at speed ( despite being aware that the lights ahead were red and woukd hsv5e to stop) .
    Assuming there was room to clear the yellow box and still stop before the lights, then the cyclist was just travelling too fast and being incautious. If they were running a red light then they would be in the wrong.
    In any case, your entering slowly was the properly cautious thing to do.
    Just to be clear. Is it ok ( ie lawful) for a cyclist to be cycling BETWEEN two lanes as traffic is stopped at lights? Sometimes the space is tight and side mirrors could be clipped?
    This is permitted by the 'pass on the left' element of the legislation. Prior to this, it would only be lawful for the cyclist to pass to the right of both lanes.


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    #109
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i have found that indicating early for a left turn encourages cyclist to speed up and overtake on the left just as i reach the turn. cant win!

    I would think that's a win. Cyclist has early warning of your planned turn and can speed up to, hopefully, clear the junction ahead of you. Alternatively, the cyclist can move out to overtake you on the right (which is my preferred choice). When you slow for the turn, the cyclist has already passed?


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    #110
    The Enbalmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭The Enbalmer


    Duckjob wrote: »
    Bit rich accusing others of being devisive no?




    How much of your day did you waste copying and pasting my posts? :D


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    #111
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Ever heard of multiquote?


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    #112
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    The Enbalmer wrote: »
    How much of your day did you waste copying and pasting my posts? :D

    Just a couple of mins, but still probably too much alright.

    Don't want to address the question no?


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    #113
    gmacww
    Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭gmacww


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i have found that indicating early for a left turn encourages cyclist to speed up and overtake on the left just as i reach the turn. cant win!

    Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

    I have seen some cyclists assume right of way at all times when going straight ahead regardless of a car indicating.

    If I see a car indicating I'll stay behind. Even at a red light if it's first car (or even a few cars that are indicating left) I'll hold short behind.

    Yesterday at baggot street bridge I got the head taken off me by a lad in a car as I pulled up along side him. He'd no indicator on and both lanes can go straight. When I pulled up I was slightly ahead of him he then turned his indicator on and gave out to me for as he's turning left.

    I've seen discussions in the motoring forum where people gave out about a cyclist indicating right in a right only lane. "Of course he's going right" was the tone. Far as I know you still have to indicate be it a car or bike.

    I've seen cyclists pull up along side a car indicating left at a red light and then proceed straight giving out when the car beeps.

    I've had motorists afraid to go and turn left even though I'm holding short on the assumption that I'm going to dart up the inside. I've restored to waving a driver across in all situations like this to make it obvious that I'm not going to go up the inside. This works great most of the time...

    I've had the head taken off me for letting a car cross a lane of stationary traffic and solid line cycle land on the left. I regularly do it in Rathgar if there are no cyclists behind me as drivers can have difficulty seeing around the cars when turning right onto the side road. No sense of common road courtesy. I asked the driver had he never let anyone in or out of a side street? He roared I on a bike and I've no authority to do that it's crazy! This despite the light 20mts away being red and he driving in the bike lane.

    I've been aggressively overtaken and clipped with a wing mirror for moving out of the cycle lane in order to turn right. Despite being very predictable about it and signaling all the way across.

    So no matter what you do be it in a car or on a bike. There is always some idiot that will take issue with you. My solution is that I drive and cycle defensively.


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    #114
    The Enbalmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭The Enbalmer


    Duckjob wrote: »

    Don't want to address the question no?




    I wasn't asked any question..i did however pose about 10 questions myself..none of which were answered.


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    #115
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    With all the ads on tv about safety for cyclists, ie amount of space to give etc, I find it shocking they don't have one about how motorists and cyclists should behave when a car is turning left.


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    #116
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    The Enbalmer wrote: »
    I wasn't asked any question..i did however pose about 10 questions myself..none of which were answered.

    Let me help you..
    Duckjob wrote:
    Bit rich accusing others of being devisive no?

    If that's too hard for you to follow, the question once again is:

    Given the devisive language used in a string of your posts I highlighted from this thread, do you not think it's a bit rich accusing others of being devisive ?

    Also, the particular "questions" you asked have been trotted out a thousand times (and addressed a thousand times) in thejournal.ie cycling article comments, maybe you should contribute there instead of derailing what was quite an interesting discussion.


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    #117
    The Enbalmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭The Enbalmer


    Duckjob wrote: »
    Let me help you..



    If that's too hard for you to follow, the question once again is:

    Given the devisive language used in a string of your posts I highlighted from this thread, do you not think it's a bit rich accusing others of being devisive ?


    No i don't.

    Duckjob wrote: »
    Also, the particular "questions" you asked have been trotted out a thousand times (and addressed a thousand times) in thejournal comments, maybe you should contribute there instead of derailing what was quite an interesting discussion.




    This isn't the journal last time i checked..there's a FB group called "i hate cyclists" i don't direct you there do i?





    You're taking the lazy way out..much like cycllsts in general and i do hate to generalise.


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    #118
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,446 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    og2k7 wrote: »
    as a cyclist i slow down and expect the driver to turn without seeing me, as a driver I expect the cyclists not to slow down and wait for all of them to pass so I can turn left
    How it should be. Err on the side of caution each time, even though that is the incorrect use of the word err.


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    #119
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    The Enbalmer wrote: »
    No i don't.





    This isn't the journal last time i checked..there's a FB group called "i hate cyclists" i don't direct you there do i?

    My point being there plenty of places you can go to moan about cyclists if that's really what turns you on.

    Not sure what you think is being achieved by taking any discussion that happens to involve people on bikes and dragging it completely off its original topic.

    You're taking the lazy way out..much like cycllsts in general and i do hate to generalise.

    Sure you do :D


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    #120
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Getting back on topic, the primary legislation for left turns and overtaking on the left by cyclists is covered by SI 332/2012 which says
    “(5)(a) A driver (other than a pedal cyclist) may only overtake on the left—

    (i) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled an intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to go straight ahead or turn to the left,

    (ii) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to turn to the left at the next road junction and has signalled this intention, or

    (iii) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver’s right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle,

    (b) A pedal cyclist may overtake on the left where vehicles to the pedal cyclist’s right are stationary or are moving more slowly than the overtaking pedal cycle, except where the vehicle to be overtaken—

    (i) has signalled an intention to turn to the left and there is a reasonable expectation that the vehicle in which the driver has signalled an intention to turn to the left will execute a movement to the left before the cycle overtakes the vehicle,

    (ii) is stationary for the purposes of permitting a passenger or passengers to alight or board the vehicle, or

    (iii) is stationary for the purposes of loading or unloading.”,

    There also seems to be some confusion between the different road markings.
    1 A traffic lane is marked by a dashed white line RRM003
    2 A mandatory cyle lane is marked by a solid white line RRM022
    3 An ADVISORY cycle lane is marked by a dashed white line RRM023

    A cycle lane denoted by RRM023 is NOT a traffic lane and advice given that cyclists are in traffic lanes where RRM023 is used is erroneous and probably dangerous advice.


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    #121
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,218 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    gmacww wrote: »
    My solution is that I drive and cycle defensively.

    Do you wear Lycra while cycling? if you do you'll be considered aggressive apparently.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110774439&postcount=47


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