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Should we be wary of celebrating the moon landings given it was white and male?

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    #122
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The Dalai Lama wrote: »
    Don't forget, many of the scientists and engineers were Nazis.

    #celebratediversity
    Indeed DL and for all the talk of "moon landing conspiracies" for the hard of thinking and the plain moronic, that was an actual government conspiracy that didn't come to light until much later on, like fully into the wider public consciousness in the 90's. Operation Paperclip where the US grabbed as many nazi scientists and their gear as they could after the war, brought them to the US, buried their originally very damning war crime reports and falsified "good German" backgrounds and even granted them American citizenship and paraded guys like Von Braun around in front of TV and cinema audiences and dinner with the president.

    The Russians grabbed a few too, though to be fair to them they worked the ex nazis like slaves and when done with them off to the gulags they tended to go, where they were worked, starved or plain shot to death. Few enough survived that. Proper order. No dinners with the Soviet premier in the Kremlin.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #123
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    it,s not fair to judge america in the 60,s by the rules of society in 2019 .If there was a new moon landing in 2019 there would very likely be a
    woman or a black astronaut in the crew .
    on the shuttle columbia there was one black and one female astronaut .


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    #124
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Indeed DL and for all the talk of "moon landing conspiracies" for the hard of thinking and the plain moronic, that was an actual government conspiracy that didn't come to light until much later on, like fully into the wider public consciousness in the 90's. Operation Paperclip where the US grabbed as many nazi scientists and their gear as they could after the war, brought them to the US, buried their originally very damning war crime reports and falsified "good German" backgrounds and even granted them American citizenship and paraded guys like Von Braun around in front of TV and cinema audiences and dinner with the president.

    The Russians grabbed a few too, though to be fair to them they worked the ex nazis like slaves and when done with them off to the gulags they tended to go, where they were worked, starved or plain shot to death. Few enough survived that. Proper order. No dinners with the Soviet premier in the Kremlin.


    Actually the culture of scientific discovery in the former USSR was really disturbed by that influence. Several immoral programs with zero real scientific value.

    A lot of those people were simply mad hatters.


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    #125
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,552 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    If it was white and male then it was defo a hoax ! We can’t be trusted ..


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    #126
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    If it was white and male then it was defo a hoax ! We can’t be trusted ..


    Nazis can definitely not be trusted. https://www.nationalgeographic.com.au/history/nasas-secret-nazis.aspx


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    #127
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Indeed DL and for all the talk of "moon landing conspiracies" for the hard of thinking and the plain moronic, that was an actual government conspiracy that didn't come to light until much later on, like fully into the wider public consciousness in the 90's. Operation Paperclip where the US grabbed as many nazi scientists and their gear as they could after the war, brought them to the US, buried their originally very damning war crime reports and falsified "good German" backgrounds and even granted them American citizenship and paraded guys like Von Braun around in front of TV and cinema audiences and dinner with the president.

    The Russians grabbed a few too, though to be fair to them they worked the ex nazis like slaves and when done with them off to the gulags they tended to go, where they were worked, starved or plain shot to death. Few enough survived that. Proper order. No dinners with the Soviet premier in the Kremlin.

    How much of a "Nazi" those scientists were is very much up for debate. An awful lot of them were merely lip service Nazis and didn't care what type of government was involved, hence there easy transition after the war.

    Later, Von Braun was tasked with informing Hollywood about "science stuff" for a number of classic sci fi movies in the 50's. But he said that they were only interested in what he said when he agreed with what the production wanted to hear. Any caveats (or actual science) he offered was met with deaf ears.


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    #128
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Tony EH wrote: »
    How much of a "Nazi" those scientists were is very much up for debate. An awful lot of them were merely lip service Nazis and didn't care what type of government was involved, hence there easy transition after the war.


    I doubt that.

    Secondly why were they allowed to be safe in the US when thousands of refugees who also could contribute to society were not during this time?

    Could it be that people in the US sympathized with them?

    Its not for nothing the thinking changed in the US in the scientific community all those NAZI rocket scientists suddenly deciding a super aggressive attitude is necessary then we have the cold war.



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    #129
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,295 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    This is silly


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    #130
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I doubt that.

    Doesn't matter what you doubt, to be honest. Many people in scientific professions and others paid lip service to the Nazis because it was prudent to do so at the time.
    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Secondly why were they allowed to be safe in the US when thousands of refugees who also could contribute to society were not during this time?

    Could it be that people in the US sympathized with them?

    Or maybe the they offered the US something the US wanted? I.E. an edge on rocketry?

    In other words, when the USSR were reverted back to the "bad guy" status the had before 1941, the US poached a number of "top minds" to get an edge. In the world of realpolitik, a lot of what we consider "politics" goes out the window and a practical edge supersedes any other notion.


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    #131
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Gimme A Pound wrote: »
    People in the West really seem to strive to find problems.

    First World Problems as usual.


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    #132
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    branie2 wrote: »
    This is silly


    It is. But those are my feelings on the topic and I am not turning them around now.


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    #133
    kikilarue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 571 ✭✭✭kikilarue2


    Are you guys reading the articles linked or just the tweet?

    The NYT article doesn't say anything like we shouldn't celebrate the moon landing. It's an examination of the challenges facing women astronauts in 2019, viewed through the lense of history.
    The most recent lesson emerged in April, when NASA had scheduled a spacewalk that was, quite by accident, staffed by two female astronauts. The agency had to restaff the spacewalk because it had only one spacesuit that was the correct size for both women.

    This is not an indictment of NASA in 2019. But it does demonstrate a causal chain that begins with the Apollo program and leads through to present-day staffing choices.

    The suits, known as extravehicular mobility units, were designed more than 40 years ago, based on the designs of the Apollo missions, at a time when all astronauts were men. Only four of the original 18 suits are still rated for spaceflight, and all of those are on the space station.


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    #134
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Doesn't matter what you doubt, to be honest. Many people in scientific professions and others paid lip service to the Nazis because it was prudent to do so at the time.



    I am calling b.s on this one.
    Many others offered their serviced to the allies and defected.

    Klaus Fuchs. Major Karl Plagge. the Nazi Party member who employed and protected and saved the lives of 1240 Jews.






    Albert Goering. (Herman's Brother). He betrayed his family his part and his country and fled Germany and rescued many Jews. He secured exit permits for Jews, protected their assets, and even physically removed people from stormtroopers' grips. He used his connections and name to escape.

    Heinz Heidrich whose brother Reinhard Heidrich basically engineered and thought up the whole final solution also rescued many jews. Heinz Heidrich's story is really sad though because he was afraid to be captured by Gestapo and so he committed suicide.


    In his book about SS physicians of Auschwitz, Robert Jay Lifton mentions Hans Münch as a doctor whose commitment to the Hippocratic Oath was stronger than his loyalty to the SS.

    The vichy Navy sank their own ships rather than let Nazis have them. I know they are French but still they were ruled by the Nazis at that time.

    Kurt Gurstein who tried to alert the world to the holocaust. And his 'Gerstein Reports' helped to convict war criminals. Sadly he too committed suicide.

    The US didnt help any of these people.





    Many Germans opposed the Nazis and fled Germany. In every walk of life from science to the military to the arts. Conrad Veidt. Lotte Lehman. (Goering sent her the weirdest abusive letters for ages) Lotte lenya so many more. These people couldn't even go home after the war.

    US intelligence however helped many escaping fascist in what were poetically called the 'Ratlines'.

    Many of these Rats did end up in NASA and Russian space programs.


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    #135
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    riclad wrote: »
    it,s not fair to judge america in the 60,s by the rules of society in 2019 .If there was a new moon landing in 2019 there would very likely be a
    woman or a black astronaut in the crew .
    on the shuttle columbia there was one black and one female astronaut .
    And remember the bigger the crew the more females as there will be a lot of extra cleaning and cooking to do


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    #136
    kikilarue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 571 ✭✭✭kikilarue2


    Edgware wrote: »
    And remember the bigger the crew the more females as there will be a lot of extra cleaning and cooking to do

    That's a very witty joke.


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    #137
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    kikilarue2 wrote: »
    That's a very witty joke.

    Thanks
    I do try


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    #138
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Edgware wrote: »
    And remember the bigger the crew the more females as there will be a lot of extra cleaning and cooking to do

    There will be robots. :cool:


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    #139
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    kikilarue2 wrote: »
    Are you guys reading the articles linked or just the tweet?

    The NYT article doesn't say anything like we shouldn't celebrate the moon landing. It's an examination of the challenges facing women astronauts in 2019, viewed through the lense of history.


    Yeah but OP wanted to express some non logical stuff ...we all gotta do that sometimes.

    Falling down moment.



    I have my falling down moments too! You dont wanna be around me at those times! :mad:


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    #140
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    There will be robots. :cool:

    And who will poish and shine the robots outfits I ask? You can't escape it
    Women are necessary on these space ships


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    #141
    utyh2ikcq9z76b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭utyh2ikcq9z76b


    What about having a white pride parade?


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    #142
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Edgware wrote: »
    And who will poish and shine the robots outfits I ask? You can't escape it
    Women are necessary on these space ships
    9972abf5416ab5b04d813893ef05179a.gif


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    #143
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Maeve Gentle Savings wrote: »
    What about having a white pride parade?


    I knew it would come to this.


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    #144
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I am calling b.s on this one.

    It doesn't matter.

    And there's nothing in your post I don't already know.


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    #145
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Tony EH wrote: »
    It doesn't matter.


    To you.


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    #146
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    To you.

    If that makes you feel better.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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    #147
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Tony EH wrote: »
    If that makes you feel better.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    It really doesn't. It just disappoints me.


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    #148
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    Maeve Gentle Savings wrote: »
    What about having a white pride parade?

    That’s on the 17th of March ;)


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    #149
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    The mirror is not pretty to some people.

    Of course no one in Nasa was a Nazi.



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    #150
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    It really doesn't. It just disappoints me.

    Never be disappointed if someone has a different point of view to yours.


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    #151
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    mad muffin wrote: »
    That’s on the 17th of March ;)

    Hey that is green pride!


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