Irishman set to be deported from the US

weldoninhio · 19-07-2019 08:52AM

Sonny noggs wrote: »

We should organise a parade for him.

If the yanks have any sense of humour he’ll either leave the US or touch down in Ireland at 4:20

LazySamaritan · 19-07-2019 10:15AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

If the yanks have any sense of humour he’ll either leave the US or touch down in Ireland at 4:20

I don't get it

LazySamaritan · 19-07-2019 10:16AM

Sonny noggs wrote: »

We should organise a parade for him.

I swear if RTÉ News has a reporter and crew at the airport to meet him I'll give up journalism in this country.

EDIT: I meant I'll give up ON journalism here

gmisk · 19-07-2019 10:18AM

LazySamaritan wrote: »

I don't get it

4 20 = Refers to cannabis use

weldoninhio · 19-07-2019 10:28AM

Turns out he won't be home today. Today is his deadline to sign to come home, or head to state penitentiary.

LazySamaritan · 19-07-2019 10:46AM

gmisk wrote: »

4 20 = Refers to cannabis use

I had a quick Google of it after getting your answer.

Some mad stuff that 420 business.

Donald Trump · 19-07-2019 11:29AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

On day 89, yes, he would have known that tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, twelve years time he could be deported.

Marriage to get regularised is common, once you’ve entered the country legally and overstayed. This guy broke federal law as soon as he stepped foot in the US. He’d already marked his own card. No matter what he did, he was getting the boot. And any immigration lawyer would have reiterated this to him once he tried to go legit.

Yeah, I don't know if you misread what I asked but you avoided the point. Nobody is saying he would not have been aware he could be deported if picked up.

Let me break this down. Here are some of the the possible consequences:
1) He gets kicked out of the US
2) He will be barred from re-entry to US for a number of years
3) He loses his business he built up for 12 years
4) He will be separated from his wife, children and stepson

Do you agree that those are some of the possible consequences? Because I just made the point that he would not have known about the totality of all the consequences on day 89. All means every one of them. Some posters here seem to think that all means "any" of them. Either that or they think the fella somehow accurately foresaw his entire future on day 89. So if you think he should have known about #1 & #2, that is not a proof that he knew about all of them.

There is another poster a few posts above who similarly overstayed, was picked up after one year and deported. He did not mention a wife or children so lets assume he did not have any in that year. Do you accept that the consequences for that poster were less than the fella in the news? Can I explain the concept of consequences any simpler? Some of the possible consequences - being deported and temporarily barred re-entry - were common between them on their respective day 89. But at the times of their respective arrests, other ones were not. Can you understand that concept?

Do you still think he knew all the possible consequences on day 89? Not one of them. Not two of them. All of them? Given that we still don't know the entirety of the consequences, it is a little difficult to even say. He hasn't been deported and barred yet. He will likely be but do you want to guarantee that he will be? I can see a chance of him being back with his family in US within a year or so at latest. Posters here seem to know with absolute conviction what the final result will be. Lets wait and see whether they are 100% right or not.

weldoninhio · 19-07-2019 12:05PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yeah, I don't know if you misread what I asked but you avoided the point. Nobody is saying he would not have been aware he could be deported if picked up.

Let me break this down. Here are some of the the possible consequences:
1) He gets kicked out of the US
2) He will be barred from re-entry to US for a number of years
3) He loses his business he built up for 12 years
4) He will be separated from his wife, children and stepson

Do you agree that those are some of the possible consequences? Because I just made the point that he would not have known about the totality of all the consequences on day 89. All means every one of them. Some posters here seem to think that all means "any" of them. Either that or they think the fella somehow accurately foresaw his entire future on day 89. So if you think he should have known about #1 & #2, that is not a proof that he knew about all of them.

There is another poster a few posts above who similarly overstayed, was picked up after one year and deported. He did not mention a wife or children so lets assume he did not have any in that year. Do you accept that the consequences for that poster were less than the fella in the news? Can I explain the concept of consequences any simpler? Some of the possible consequences - being deported and temporarily barred re-entry - were common between them on their respective day 89. But at the times of their respective arrests, other ones were not. Can you understand that concept?

Do you still think he knew all the possible consequences on day 89? Not one of them. Not two of them. All of them? Given that we still don't know the entirety of the consequences, it is a little difficult to even say. He hasn't been deported and barred yet. He will likely be but do you want to guarantee that he will be? I can see a chance of him being back with his family in US within a year or so at latest. Posters here seem to know with absolute conviction what the final result will be. Lets wait and see whether they are 100% right or not.

You made up 89 days. On day 1 he knew he could be deported. On day 89 he knew he could be deported. On the day he asked his gf to marry him he knew he could be deported. When he became a father for the first time, he knew he could be deported. When he got his mortgage, he knew he could be deported. When he had his second child, he knew he could be deported. Each and every time his application for regularization was denied, he knew he could be deported. It doesn't matter what he knew on day 89 or day 889. He always knew deportation was hanging over him. Just because he decided to ignore it and drag a wife and family into his mess doesn't make any difference. Deportation was always an option. One that is happening now. And options 3 and 4 are all his own fault, no one else. And any suffering his family go through now because of him, is his fault too.

Donald Trump · 19-07-2019 12:25PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

You made up 89 days. On day 1 he knew he could be deported. On day 89 he knew he could be deported. On the day he asked his gf to marry him he knew he could be deported. When he became a father for the first time, he knew he could be deported. When he got his mortgage, he knew he could be deported. When he had his second child, he knew he could be deported. Each and every time his application for regularization was denied, he knew he could be deported. It doesn't matter what he knew on day 89 or day 889. He always knew deportation was hanging over him. Just because he decided to ignore it and drag a wife and family into his mess doesn't make any difference. Deportation was always an option. One that is happening now. And options 3 and 4 are all his own fault, no one else. And any suffering his family go through now because of him, is his fault too.

That's fine. You either did not understand my point or are deliberately ignoring it and trying to move goalposts.

Another poster claimed that the fella would have known all of the consequences when he overstayed (as mentioned any times, overstaying by one day is the same as overstaying by 10 years - once you are over there is no return and no sliding scale)

I pointed out he likely didn't know all of the possible potential consequences when he overstayed. What you are saying is that he made subsequent decisions that increased the potential consequences. Which actually agrees with and validates what my initial point was - even though you likely won't admit it.

Fella overstays. Grand. He risks getting picked up and being deported. He meets girl, gets married - happy days. There is a good chance he'll get regularized. Files his petition. Process takes time. He moves on with his life. Petition fails, files an appeal. No worries. Common enough to take a few attempts. Has a child. At this stage is still reasonably expectant of a favourable outcome. Process takes more time. And so on and so on. The story says that he started the process in 2010 and gets arrested in 2019. It would be a bit unreasonable to expect the fella to put his life on hold for 9 years. What would you have done in his shoes in 2010? Left the country and his wife for 10 years in the hopes of getting a GC then (still not guaranteed)? He had a reasonable expectation of getting his papers at that time. As most people in that situation would have

Watch the video of the documentary of the Guatemalan fella and his family that I posted a few pages back. He eventually got back in and reunited with his family. All the process did was cost the taxpayer over 100k and cost your man his business and his family their home. Warning to all the pseudo-autistic posters - your mind might be blown by the fact that "rules are rules" did not give an exact roadmap for the outcome and that some semblance of common sense eventually prevailed. (Not you btw, that refers to other postings)

My prediction for this fella is that he will stay for now and they will try to expedite a hearing with an immigration judge. Because there is still a chance that he will be allowed to stay. The shitty thing is that they will keep him locked up until then. The queues are kept long - possibly as a disincentive to take that option.

Lux23 · 19-07-2019 12:27PM

I feel for the guy, awful to have your life torn apart like that.

19-07-2019 12:39PM

Lux23 wrote: »

I feel for the guy, awful to have your life torn apart like that.

Lesson here is don't lie on your ESTA next time you visit the States

NSAman · 19-07-2019 03:31PM

Another thing.... as he did not have legal residency in the US how did he manage to get a mortgage? that is mortgage fraud here....

gmisk · 19-07-2019 03:41PM

NSAman wrote: »

Another thing.... as he did not have legal residency in the US how did he manage to get a mortgage? that is mortgage fraud here....

You dont have to be a US Citizen to get a mortgage.

blackwhite · 19-07-2019 03:49PM

gmisk wrote: »

You dont have to be a US Citizen to get a mortgage.

You are supposed to have legal residency though - which was the point you responded to

jam_mac_jam · 19-07-2019 03:52PM

blackwhite wrote: »

You are supposed to have legal residency though - which was the point you responded to

Yeah I am a bit amazed that you could buy a house or have a company without residency.

padd b1975 · 19-07-2019 04:00PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Turns out he won't be home today. Today is his deadline to sign to come home, or head to state penitentiary.

He'll hardly make it to Cork's match in Croker so...

Donald Trump · 19-07-2019 04:07PM

blackwhite wrote: »

You are supposed to have legal residency though - which was the point you responded to

That might be a requirement of the Bank. I would not say it is anything legal or regulatory though. If a Bank wants to give me a loan of its money to put towards a house, then that is at its own risk. One thing the US is not adverse to is the flow of capital across its borders - particulalrly inwards. It is only the inward flow of capital from China etc that allows it to balance its books.

Most Banks (although not all) will require a SSN to open an account. But as I said, not all. Credit checks are usually done via SSN but can also be done on other identifiers such as name. There is actually a mechanism in the US for a US citizen to get rid of their SSN should they wish to do so for whatever obscure (probably tinfoil hat) reason. It is extremely difficult though to get rid of your old SSN and try to get a new one. It can technically be done, but would only be done in cases of, say, extreme and repeated ID theft via that SSN.

Either way, the fella was married to a US citizen. It wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that a mortgage was through her account or her name even if your man had his own accounts.

Donald Trump · 19-07-2019 04:09PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

He'll hardly make it to Cork's match in Croker so...

Ah it's alright. He probably wouldn't have been starting the game anyway

weldoninhio · 19-07-2019 04:11PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

That's fine. You either did not understand my point or are deliberately ignoring it and trying to move goalposts.

Another poster claimed that the fella would have known all of the consequences when he overstayed (as mentioned any times, overstaying by one day is the same as overstaying by 10 years - once you are over there is no return and no sliding scale)

I pointed out he likely didn't know all of the possible potential consequences when he overstayed. What you are saying is that he made subsequent decisions that increased the potential consequences. Which actually agrees with and validates what my initial point was - even though you likely won't admit it.

Fella overstays. Grand. He risks getting picked up and being deported. He meets girl, gets married - happy days. There is a good chance he'll get regularized. Files his petition. Process takes time. He moves on with his life. Petition fails, files an appeal. No worries. Common enough to take a few attempts. Has a child. At this stage is still reasonably expectant of a favourable outcome. Process takes more time. And so on and so on. The story says that he started the process in 2010 and gets arrested in 2019. It would be a bit unreasonable to expect the fella to put his life on hold for 9 years. What would you have done in his shoes in 2010? Left the country and his wife for 10 years in the hopes of getting a GC then (still not guaranteed)? He had a reasonable expectation of getting his papers at that time. As most people in that situation would have

Watch the video of the documentary of the Guatemalan fella and his family that I posted a few pages back. He eventually got back in and reunited with his family. All the process did was cost the taxpayer over 100k and cost your man his business and his family their home. Warning to all the pseudo-autistic posters - your mind might be blown by the fact that "rules are rules" did not give an exact roadmap for the outcome and that some semblance of common sense eventually prevailed. (Not you btw, that refers to other postings)

My prediction for this fella is that he will stay for now and they will try to expedite a hearing with an immigration judge. Because there is still a chance that he will be allowed to stay. The shitty thing is that they will keep him locked up until then. The queues are kept long - possibly as a disincentive to take that option.

Did the Guatemalan commit a federal crime while entering the country? This guy has zero chance to be regularized because of that. It is something that the US takes very seriously.

weisses · 19-07-2019 04:13PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

You made up 89 days. On day 1 he knew he could be deported. On day 89 he knew he could be deported. On the day he asked his gf to marry him he knew he could be deported. When he became a father for the first time, he knew he could be deported. When he got his mortgage, he knew he could be deported. When he had his second child, he knew he could be deported. Each and every time his application for regularization was denied, he knew he could be deported. It doesn't matter what he knew on day 89 or day 889. He always knew deportation was hanging over him. Just because he decided to ignore it and drag a wife and family into his mess doesn't make any difference. Deportation was always an option. One that is happening now. And options 3 and 4 are all his own fault, no one else. And any suffering his family go through now because of him, is his fault too.

Well done captain hindsight

Donald Trump · 19-07-2019 04:22PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Did the Guatemalan commit a federal crime while entering the country? This guy has zero chance to be regularized because of that. It is something that the US takes very seriously.

What's your point? Other than moving the goalposts. (The poster I had responded to referenced overstaying only.) And regardless, my point was just that he would not have known the totality of the eventual consequences of his overstaying at the time. That remains for the false declaration (which is of magnitudes more serious - that is not in dispute)

I was in the US back in the day. I came back on day 90 (despite advice not to leave it until the last day...but I was lucky the plane was not delayed and got out with a few hours to spare). I wasn't pushed to stay there - but in any case the consequences for me was the bar on re-entry as I have decent qualifications and possibility of having to travel to US in future.
Other fellas there overstayed because their consequences were less (at least at that time). To them it was an extended holiday and all they were going back to was the dole or a labouring job back home. I mentioned one who got married to an American, started the GC process (got divorced but still received the GC). Finally was able to come back for a visit, realized he missed home and came home a few months later (and let the GC expire). One or two got picked up and sent home. Some stayed and have families and business there. The day you stay, you don't know all the long term consequences. You know the immediate consequences which is that you will be barred from reentry after you leave. That is my only point and it can't be that difficult to understand. I am not saying your man did nothing wrong. Nor am I saying he might not have known he was supposed to get out. Or anything like that. It was a response to someone saying that he knew the consequences when he overstayed. It would be very easy to find yourself in that situation. Once you go over the 90 days, there is no turning back. The day you go over it might not seem like a big deal. By the time it becomes a big deal, it's too late. Your only option is to stay and try to get regularized. Because once you leave, you won't get back in to try to do it.

tuxy · 19-07-2019 04:39PM

I think the point people are trying to make is that at no point was in the U.S legally. He lied on his ESTA so before he even left Ireland he had decided to enter another country illegally.
You say after day 90 there is no going back, I'm not sure that is the case. What are the consequences if they discover you have lied on your ESTA on day 1 or 2?

ajarms86 · 19-07-2019 04:50PM

There seems to be alot of the 'he broke the law and deserves what he gets' rhetoric on here, but let me pose a couple of things;

1. What would happen if we all blindly followed the law and never challenged it . . . new laws would never emerge and society would not evolve and develop . . once upon a time gay marriage was illegal in Ireland . . .so some times challenging the law as it stands is good thing for society.

2. Has any one stopped to ask whether or not this Irish guy was a positive addition to America, as far as I can tell from the news, he was, got Married, had kids, paid taxes, held down a job, ultimately was a positive contribution to America.

Does America really want to blindly remove all illegal immigrants even when they are having a positive impact on American society?

Calhoun · 19-07-2019 05:08PM

ajarms86 wrote: »

There seems to be alot of the 'he broke the law and deserves what he gets' rhetoric on here, but let me pose a couple of things;

1. What would happen if we all blindly followed the law and never challenged it . . . new laws would never emerge and society would not evolve and develop . . once upon a time gay marriage was illegal in Ireland . . .so some times challenging the law as it stands is good thing for society.

2. Has any one stopped to ask whether or not this Irish guy was a positive addition to America, as far as I can tell from the news, he was, got Married, had kids, paid taxes, held down a job, ultimately was a positive contribution to America.

Does America really want to blindly remove all illegal immigrants even when they are having a positive impact on American society?

Let me also pose some questions.

1. What would happen if we had no laws and we all just did what we wanted and took what we wanted?
2. Have you actually read through the thread where it was pointed out that illegal immigrants take out from the system allot more than they put in.
3. Why should we ignore the democratic and sovereign process within countries? what should we replace it with?

As evident by the American government giving him a deal they aren't blindly removing people. American's just happen to take legal declarations seriously and enforce that.

Nermal · 19-07-2019 05:09PM

ajarms86 wrote: »

What would happen if we all blindly followed the law and never challenged it

You're free to challenge the law any time you want, just don't whinge to the media about the consequences when you're caught.

ToddyDoody · 19-07-2019 05:17PM

Is he at the airport yet?

JohnMc1 · 19-07-2019 05:24PM

ajarms86 wrote: »

There seems to be alot of the 'he broke the law and deserves what he gets' rhetoric on here, but let me pose a couple of things;

1. What would happen if we all blindly followed the law and never challenged it . . . new laws would never emerge and society would not evolve and develop . . once upon a time gay marriage was illegal in Ireland . . .so some times challenging the law as it stands is good thing for society.

2. Has any one stopped to ask whether or not this Irish guy was a positive addition to America, as far as I can tell from the news, he was, got Married, had kids, paid taxes, held down a job, ultimately was a positive contribution to America.

Does America really want to blindly remove all illegal immigrants even when they are having a positive impact on American society?

They just had 8 years under Obama to get their residency sorted out. If they couldn't be bothered to do during that time then **** them. When you're illegally in a Country you have to realize that you're on borrowed time. Obama gave them a lifeline. They didn't take it then its on them. It was only a matter of time before a President was elected that was tired of our immigration laws being made a mockery of.

Donald Trump · 19-07-2019 06:18PM

Calhoun wrote: »

Let me also pose some questions.

1. What would happen if we had no laws and we all just did what we wanted and took what we wanted?

Are you trying to imply that by questioning the blind implementing of a single "rule" that is implies that a person thinks that there should never be any rules? That's kinda silly dude. And not an argument at all.

Calhoun wrote: »

2. Have you actually read through the thread where it was pointed out that illegal immigrants take out from the system allot more than they put in.

Well you see that is actually bullshit in the US context. If it wasn't they would have been rounded up and sent home a long time ago.

Calhoun wrote: »

3. Why should we ignore the democratic and sovereign process within countries? what should we replace it with?

As evident by the American government giving him a deal they aren't blindly removing people. American's just happen to take legal declarations seriously and enforce that.

I think you misunderstand what is going on with the deal. The deal they'd offer him would be that in return for waiving his right to appeal his deportation, that they would deport him right away without pressing any other charges. In a simplified explanation there are two options
1) Accept deportation. Get out of the system and leave right away and go back to Ireland.

2) Fight the deportation. Stay locked up until his case can be heard by an immigration judge. If he wins that then he might get some leave to remain. If he loses, he might get additional penalties before eventual deportation (although it is likely he'd just be deported).

So the deal is to bully him to accept a blind deportation and waive his right to a hearing. i.e to exclude him from legal due process. Not sure why you are going on about "Democratic process"..............must be watching too many Nigel Farage videos on youtube.

Donald Trump · 19-07-2019 06:20PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

They just had 8 years under Obama to get their residency sorted out. If they couldn't be bothered to do during that time then **** them. When you're illegally in a Country you have to realize that you're on borrowed time. Obama gave them a lifeline. They didn't take it then its on them. It was only a matter of time before a President was elected that was tired of our immigration laws being made a mockery of.

I know dude. You'd think he'd have tried to petition in 2010 or something :rolleyes:

As for "they" and "their", yeah you are right too. Yer wan should have sorted out her residency. Her being a US citizen and all that.

Calhoun · 19-07-2019 06:47PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

They just had 8 years under Obama to get their residency sorted out. If they couldn't be bothered to do during that time then **** them. When you're illegally in a Country you have to realize that you're on borrowed time. Obama gave them a lifeline. They didn't take it then its on them. It was only a matter of time before a President was elected that was tired of our immigration laws being made a mockery of.

I thought it was as strict during Obama's time frame as it is now. Allot of the policies used now came from stuff out in place with OBama.

I could be wrong .

Either way we shall see what he does tonight if he will really fight it. He could try and be a martyr and go down for a few years and then be deported, I hear federal prison isn't as bad as regular so he should be alright.

If he does come back I'm sure we will have him on the late late so he can give us the woe is me spiel.

Irishman set to be deported from the US

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