Irishman set to be deported from the US

splinter65 · 18-07-2019 11:57AM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

I didn’t argue anything of the sort, and I’m pretty much done responding to dumb comments.

A person evading taxes is always bar. Corruption is always bad. Theft is always bad. But living and working in a country while not having legally migrated is not always bad. The US has millions of them, and despite the rhetoric is in no rush to deport them all.

And I haven’t argued that there should be no penalty for this guy—just that deportation does harm and no tangible good.

My comments are “dumb”?
Ad hominem attacks when your argument won’t hold any water. Biggest sign of “dumbness” there is.

Cryptopagan · 18-07-2019 12:00PM

splinter65 wrote: »

My comments are “dumb”?
Ad hominem attacks when your argument won’t hold any water. Biggest sign of “dumbness” there is.

Ad hominem would be saying you are dumb.

Yes, the arguments you made in the last post are dumb. It does not follow that you are dumb.

reg114 · 18-07-2019 12:16PM

The simple fact is he's an illegal economic migrant. For decades its been common knowledge that if you want to work and live in the States there is a process of application. You must also disclose any misdemeanours or convictions in advance of entry. This Irishman did neither. The current American administration are now cracking down hard on illegals and are making an example of this guy, its unfortunate for him but he's an illegal immigrant pure and simple. If he's smart he'll come home and his family will have to join him.

rireland · 18-07-2019 12:20PM

I wish our government worked like the ICE are working.

No one "forgets" about the laws or "accidentally" overstayed their visa or not notify of previous convictions.

18-07-2019 12:39PM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

That’s a really stupid comparison. Drinking and driving is harmful in itself. Undocumented migrants can make a positive contribution despite their irregular status, while a drunk driver is always bad

Whoop, there it is!

whisky_galore · 18-07-2019 12:39PM

LazySamaritan wrote: »

There is a lesson to be learned here - don’t do drugs!!!

Do drugs, just don't get caught!

18-07-2019 12:40PM

joe swanson wrote: »

Don't see the issue. If a Nigerian man was being deported from here under similar circumstances there would be no outcry.

Illegal immigrant -out you go

There would.... from certain people

Calhoun · 18-07-2019 01:13PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

What are you on about hyperbole? If it still goes over your head that the US chooses their own laws and punishments at their own discretion then there is nothing that can be done to help you.

Do you not understand that these things are not fundamental fixed universal constant of the cosmos? It's not measuring the charge on an electron.

It was reported that he was offered to sign a deal where he can be deported or face up to 4 years in prison. Did that not give you a hint that they have some discretion? You are fixated on deportation as being the only possible outcome

What are you talking about ? You seem a bit unhinged, going off on a tangent.

What do you want me to agree to make you feel warm and fuzzy inside?

Calhoun · 18-07-2019 01:41PM

I am not sold hard and fast on any solution other than the Americans themselves making the decisions as it is at their discretion to do so.

I am not sure why your so combative about it my original point was why people are not defending him from an Irish perspective is that this approach is used against us when it comes to our own rules.

DebDynamite · 18-07-2019 01:59PM

joe swanson wrote: »

Don't see the issue. If a Nigerian man was being deported from here under similar circumstances there would be no outcry.

Illegal immigrant -out you go

I actually think there would. Didn't the family of the young Nigerian teenager, and Chinese boy get to stay here, due to the public outcry

splinter65 · 18-07-2019 02:20PM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Ad hominem would be saying you are dumb.

Yes, the arguments you made in the last post are dumb. It does not follow that you are dumb.

Just your opinion. Mine is that your comments are totally typical of a whingy liberal leftie hand wringer that struggles to accept facts over feelings.

splinter65 · 18-07-2019 02:21PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Do drugs, just don't get caught!

No. Do drugs. Take the consequences without whinging.

LazySamaritan · 18-07-2019 06:06PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Do drugs, just don't get caught!

Don't be bold!!!:eek:

LazySamaritan · 18-07-2019 06:09PM

splinter65 wrote: »

No. Do drugs. Take the consequences without whinging.

Bold, yet sensible!!!:p

Galwayguy35 · 18-07-2019 07:09PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

How is it "scamming" the system?

It is undoubtedly trying to bypass or avoid the system, but I can't see what the "scam" is.

I don't understand why people get so righteous and bitter about people like your man. What is missing from their own lives that the feel the need to vent so much? Is there some kind of self-delusion that only for their own strict abidance of every single rule and law that they'd have been billionaires over in the US?

Yeah your man broke the law. I'd doubt that he went over there with all this planned out. I'd say he just stupidly overstayed at the beginning without realizing the consequences. Once you are one second over, that's it. From what is reported, he tried to be up front and get regularized a good few years ago.

Balancing the benefit of deporting him against the damage to 4 US citizens (his wife and 2 kids and the step kid) it would seem that the damage outweighs the benefit. Why not just fine him or apply some other penalty rather than deportation?

Well he obviously didn't declare the ganja conviction on his application form or he wouldn't have been let in at all so he was deceiving them from day one.

Ah will you go away with that rubbish that he didn't realise the consequences, he knew bloody well but left it too late to try and be honest with them and his lies caught up with him.

whinging and moaning then when it's all his own fault.

Donald Trump · 18-07-2019 07:12PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well he obviously didn't declare the ganja conviction on his application form or he wouldn't have been let in at all so he was deceiving them from day one.

Ah will you go away with that rubbish that he didn't realise the consequences, he knew bloody well but left it too late to try and be honest with them and his lies caught up with him.

whinging and moaning then when it's all his own fault.

Hold on. You think that in 2009 or whenever he realized that in 9 years that he'd be deported and have a wife, stepson and two children left behind? I very much doubt it.

You never answered the question regarding what the scam was? Only possible scam might be a sham marriage but nobody has claimed that

Galwayguy35 · 18-07-2019 07:15PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Hold on. You think that in 2009 or whenever he realized that in 9 years that he'd be deported and have a wife, stepson and two children left behind? I very much doubt it.

He knew if he mentioned it he wouldn't get in at all in the first place.

Everyone knows the Yanks and Canadians as well have a strict policy on that kind of thing.

Donald Trump · 18-07-2019 07:27PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

He knew if he mentioned it he wouldn't get in at all in the first place.

Everyone knows the Yanks and Canadians as well have a strict policy on that kind of thing.

No, I made the point that he wouldn't have realized the extent of the consequences on the first day he overstayed. You seem to think he would have known them

Fella goes over under VWP. You have to take one day at a time. Once you go over, you go over. One day vs one year is the same. Probably the first day you go over you might not care if you are a person who doesn't think too much or who only considers it an extended holiday and sure if he's caught he just has to leave. Then one day becomes two, become a few months, becomes a few years and he's married with kids and the consequences are magnitudes greater.

Well, you say, he shouldn't have gotten married. But plenty of people do get married in order to regularize their situation. I personally know a few people in US who got married who probably otherwise would not have done so (at least not so quickly) due to it making things much simpler. He got married and fully expected probably for it to be a formality. Unless of course you think that was all foreseen as well on day 89 of his initial trip?

As for strict policy, I personally know a few people who were in US without papers who got regularized. One eventually got his green card, took a trip home and ended up realizing he missed home and came home for good a few months later. After years of not being able to come home for fear of not getting back in. I know a few that had "friends" marry them and most got away with it.

honeybear · 18-07-2019 07:36PM

This man’s wife was on Drivetime and came across very well. Felt really sorry for the family

Galwayguy35 · 18-07-2019 07:40PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

No, I made the point that he wouldn't have realized the extent of the consequences on the first day he overstayed. You seem to think he would have known them

Fella goes over under VWP. You have to take one day at a time. Once you go over, you go over. One day vs one year is the same. Probably the first day you go over you might not care if you are a person who doesn't think too much or who only considers it an extended holiday and sure if he's caught he just has to leave. Then one day becomes two, become a few months, becomes a few years and he's married with kids and the consequences are magnitudes greater.

Well, you say, he shouldn't have gotten married. But plenty of people do get married in order to regularize their situation. I personally know a few people in US who got married who probably otherwise would not have done so (at least not so quickly) due to it making things much simpler. He got married and fully expected probably for it to be a formality. Unless of course you think that was all foreseen as well on day 89 of his initial trip?

As for strict policy, I personally know a few people who were in US without papers who got regularized. One eventually got his green card, took a trip home and ended up realizing he missed home and came home for good a few months later. After years of not being able to come home for fear of not getting back in. I know a few that had "friends" marry them and most got away with it.

Well it seems like he was the kind of person who didn't want to follow the rules about declaring drug convictions and despite what you might think i'd say he knew full well he was lying to them so he deserves everything he gets.

I'm delighted he is going to be deported.

Donald Trump · 18-07-2019 08:04PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well it seems like he was the kind of person who didn't want to follow the rules about declaring drug convictions and despite what you might think i'd say he knew full well he was lying to them so he deserves everything he gets.

Well nobody tried to claim he didn't know he was lying to them. What I had questioned you on was your apparent belief that he had some kind of crystal ball standard of foresight so that he knew what the full consequences of what would visit him 9 years down the line as a result.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I'm delighted he is going to be deported.

That is clear. And it tells us a lot more about you than it does about him. If you want to delight in the misfortune of others, (people whom I assume you never met and will never meet) that is your prerogative. Scan the news while you are at it, you might find a story about someone who lost their legs in a car accident by crashing their car while not paying full attention on the road or some similar story. Knock yourself out.

Galwayguy35 · 18-07-2019 08:13PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well nobody tried to claim he didn't know he was lying to them. What I had questioned you on was your apparent belief that he had some kind of crystal ball standard of foresight so that he knew what the full consequences of what would visit him 9 years down the line as a result.

That is clear. And it tells us a lot more about you than it does about him. If you want to delight in the misfortune of others, (people whom I assume you never met and will never meet) that is your prerogative. Scan the news while you are at it, you might find a story about someone who lost their legs in a car accident by crashing their car while not paying full attention on the road or some similar story. Knock yourself out.

You are comparing an illegal immigrant being rightly deported with someone who has lost limbs in an accident.

Never mind me it tells us a lot about you as well, kind of pathetic really.

Rows Grower · 18-07-2019 08:32PM

He must be some man with a paint brush all the same.

Does anyone know what he painted?

weldoninhio · 18-07-2019 08:56PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well nobody tried to claim he didn't know he was lying to them. What I had questioned you on was your apparent belief that he had some kind of crystal ball standard of foresight so that he knew what the full consequences of what would visit him 9 years down the line as a result.

That is clear. And it tells us a lot more about you than it does about him. If you want to delight in the misfortune of others, (people whom I assume you never met and will never meet) that is your prerogative. Scan the news while you are at it, you might find a story about someone who lost their legs in a car accident by crashing their car while not paying full attention on the road or some similar story. Knock yourself out.

You are talking nonsense. At every step of the way he knew he’d lied to get into the country and I’m sure he knew the worst case scenario. He knew it when he got his visa waiver. He knew it when he asked the American to marry him. He knew it when they had the first kid. He knew it when they had the second kid. He either buried his head in the sand, didn’t care, or thought that US immigration would be like an Irish judge and say “ah shure tis grand, you’re settled here”.

And as for your second paragraph, this isn’t “misfortune”, it is the consequences of his own actions.

Donald Trump · 18-07-2019 10:38PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

You are talking nonsense. At every step of the way he knew he’d lied to get into the country and I’m sure he knew the worst case scenario. He knew it when he got his visa waiver. He knew it when he asked the American to marry him. He knew it when they had the first kid. He knew it when they had the second kid. He either buried his head in the sand, didn’t care, or thought that US immigration would be like an Irish judge and say “ah shure tis grand, you’re settled here”.

And as for your second paragraph, this isn’t “misfortune”, it is the consequences of his own actions.

What is your point? You also think that on day 89 of his entry to the US that he knew that 12 years later the consequences would be that he would be deported and leave a wife, stepson and 2 children stranded? That would be silly to believe that but you are free to believe it if you think that.

You stay one day over and that is it. You are down a certain path. Once you leave the country after that you are barred from re-entering for X years. The consequences of that are minimal if you are just over for the craic and don't really care about being deported. But one day becomes two days and time passes and you build up a life there. At what stage (given someone has overstayed) do you think they should up sticks and leave? The minute he scores some girl on a night out? You never know, it might end in marriage and kids and he can't have that..... as I pointed out above, overstaying by one day vs 10 years is irrelevant (except if the one-day is accidental or due to a cancelled or delayed flight etc. - then you might be able to get a judge to remove the mark from your record)

As for getting married, it is usually a fairly concrete step towards getting regularized. That's just the way it is. You may not know that or know anyone with experience of it. For example, I have a good friend originally from a South American country who is a US citizen through marriage. After a good few years she was able to petition to bring over her mother on a GC. Mother arrives over, zero English, gets herself a boyfriend from her own country who is there illegally. My friend is worried that they have since secretly married to regularize his situation. (My friend doesn't really like the man). But can you not understand that it is common for marriage to be used as a way to regularize a person who has no status there?

It isn't a trivial process but it is normally robust, unless they suspect it is a sham marriage of convenience. So anyone saying that fella shouldn't have gotten married to yer wan and should have known it would happen is talking through their hoop. Because his case is more of an anomaly than the rule.

I don't give a shit on a personal level about this fella. He is representative somewhat of a larger problem. It just seems retarded that they'd break up his family and deport him at this stage. The level of schadenfreude and glee expressed on this thread though is shocking and disappointing. There are a lot of bitter and jealous people out there unhappy with their own lives it seems. Fair enough if you don't give a shit about your man on a personal level (as I said I don't), but for people to openly express delight at his predicament is sad.

Mark25 · 18-07-2019 11:22PM

It's a bad situation for this guy for sure. There are so many illegal/undocumented Irish over in the States and they seem to be pretty much left alone but always have that concern that they will be deported. I remember reading before that many more Irish have been deported from Australia than from USA.

The fact that he has a wife and kids there makes it hard but he has broke a number of laws - he didn't declare his convictions and the Americans are very tough on drug convictions, he broke the terms of the visa waiver programme, overstayed the visa so he has made many mistakes.

But look he is not the only one to do this. I was in the same situation going back 12 years. Was young and things weren't great at home so went over to the US. I went on the visa and overstayed and got working and met a girl. I was there over a year and got arrrested for something minor. It was a big problem then that I had overstayed and I ended up spending 3 weeks in jail and then getting deported and banned from returning for 10 years. So I have an idea of what he is going through. When it happened to me I knew I would be deported and just had to sit it out. I knew it was a risk because of what I had done and it was a risk for me so no complaints really when it happened.

Atlantic Dawn · 18-07-2019 11:24PM

So will he be back here on Saturday?

weldoninhio · 19-07-2019 07:46AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

What is your point? You also think that on day 89 of his entry to the US that he knew that 12 years later the consequences would be that he would be deported and leave a wife, stepson and 2 children stranded? That would be silly to believe that but you are free to believe it if you think that.

You stay one day over and that is it. You are down a certain path. Once you leave the country after that you are barred from re-entering for X years. The consequences of that are minimal if you are just over for the craic and don't really care about being deported. But one day becomes two days and time passes and you build up a life there. At what stage (given someone has overstayed) do you think they should up sticks and leave? The minute he scores some girl on a night out? You never know, it might end in marriage and kids and he can't have that..... as I pointed out above, overstaying by one day vs 10 years is irrelevant (except if the one-day is accidental or due to a cancelled or delayed flight etc. - then you might be able to get a judge to remove the mark from your record)

As for getting married, it is usually a fairly concrete step towards getting regularized. That's just the way it is. You may not know that or know anyone with experience of it. For example, I have a good friend originally from a South American country who is a US citizen through marriage. After a good few years she was able to petition to bring over her mother on a GC. Mother arrives over, zero English, gets herself a boyfriend from her own country who is there illegally. My friend is worried that they have since secretly married to regularize his situation. (My friend doesn't really like the man). But can you not understand that it is common for marriage to be used as a way to regularize a person who has no status there?

It isn't a trivial process but it is normally robust, unless they suspect it is a sham marriage of convenience. So anyone saying that fella shouldn't have gotten married to yer wan and should have known it would happen is talking through their hoop. Because his case is more of an anomaly than the rule.

I don't give a shit on a personal level about this fella. He is representative somewhat of a larger problem. It just seems retarded that they'd break up his family and deport him at this stage. The level of schadenfreude and glee expressed on this thread though is shocking and disappointing. There are a lot of bitter and jealous people out there unhappy with their own lives it seems. Fair enough if you don't give a shit about your man on a personal level (as I said I don't), but for people to openly express delight at his predicament is sad.

On day 89, yes, he would have known that tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, twelve years time he could be deported.

Marriage to get regularised is common, once you’ve entered the country legally and overstayed. This guy broke federal law as soon as he stepped foot in the US. He’d already marked his own card. No matter what he did, he was getting the boot. And any immigration lawyer would have reiterated this to him once he tried to go legit.

weldoninhio · 19-07-2019 07:48AM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

So will he be back here on Saturday?

Depends what time his flight leaves the US. Might be home this evening.

Sonny noggs · 19-07-2019 07:58AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Depends what time his flight leaves the US. Might be home this evening.

We should organise a parade for him.

Irishman set to be deported from the US

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