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Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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Comments

  • #5042
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,417 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    leitrim4life wrote: »
    Sure wasn't there a gang rape in leixlip a few years ago where they were all juvenile? If memory serves me they all went to same school as Ana and the 2 boyo's. They served no time and one is currently cheered on weekly by crowds at a LoI club.

    I honestly don’t remember that crime ?


  • #5043
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    tuxy wrote: »
    I've heard many stories on here about Boy B using a mobile phone to record. And other stories saying Boy B much have attacked her too but had a change of clothes in his back pack so there would be no DNA.
    Some people do get enjoyment out of thinking up these scenarios.

    That’s harmless speculation. It’s not being suggested as fact. It’s perfectly valid for posters to wonder about a 13 year old boy not having a smart phone.
    What harm is being done by the speculation?


  • #5044
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    splinter65 wrote: »
    That’s harmless speculation. It’s not being suggested as fact. It’s perfectly valid for posters to wonder about a 13 year old boy not having a smart phone.
    What harm is being done by the speculation?

    Some posters have stated it as fact claiming he wouldn't have been there unless he took part in the attack or recorded it.
    I can only guess that these posters think the conviction is not safe and need to create more evidence in their mind.


  • #5045
    sullzz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,409 ✭✭✭sullzz


    leitrim4life wrote: »
    Sure wasn't there a gang rape in leixlip a few years ago where they were all juvenile? If memory serves me they all went to same school as Ana and the 2 boyo's. They served no time and one is currently cheered on weekly by crowds at a LoI club.

    I've never heard such an incident and I've lived in the area all my life and attended that school, do you have a link to the case?


  • #5046
    leitrim4life
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 67 ✭✭leitrim4life


    sullzz wrote: »
    I've never heard such an incident and I've lived in the area all my life and attended that school, do you have a link to the case?

    You won't find a link as all were underage at the time and they had it scrubbed from google. It was 2009/2010 i think i was working in intel at the time and it was very hush hush as the lads involved were Nigerian and guards afraid of racist vigilantes. They got the charges changes to defilement/sexual abuse etc


    Took some digging

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-quiz-six-teenage-boys-over-alleged-rape-26647886.html


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  • #5047
    Corruptedmorals
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    I can't get a proper link on mobile, it's not the easiest article to find. None of the 3 were properly charged...one because of a budding football career I believe. But it was the other school not the one in Ana's case. If you Google Judge Mary Ellen Ring and rape Leixlip there are a few links that will bring to the article. Not sure now it managed to be kept so quiet I also live in the area but didn't hear about it for years.


  • #5048
    leitrim4life
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 67 ✭✭leitrim4life


    Corruptedmorals wrote: »
    I can't get a proper link on mobile, it's not the easiest article to find. None of the 3 were properly charged...one because of a budding football career I believe. But it was the other school not the one in Ana's case. If you Google Judge Mary Ellen Ring and rape Leixlip there are a few links that will bring to the article. Not sure now it managed to be kept so quiet I also live in the area but didn't hear about it for years.

    My bad on the school, but it's amazing how things can be kept quiet, even from locals.


  • #5049
    shanec1928
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,286 ✭✭✭shanec1928


    Corruptedmorals wrote: »
    I can't get a proper link on mobile, it's not the easiest article to find. None of the 3 were properly charged...one because of a budding football career I believe. But it was the other school not the one in Ana's case. If you Google Judge Mary Ellen Ring and rape Leixlip there are a few links that will bring to the article. Not sure now it managed to be kept so quiet I also live in the area but didn't hear about it for years.
    because that person sued the papers and used the right to be forgotten to have it “erased”. Said person was also recently deported.


  • #5050
    sullzz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,409 ✭✭✭sullzz


    Corruptedmorals wrote: »
    I can't get a proper link on mobile, it's not the easiest article to find. None of the 3 were properly charged...one because of a budding football career I believe. But it was the other school not the one in Ana's case. If you Google Judge Mary Ellen Ring and rape Leixlip there are a few links that will bring to the article. Not sure now it managed to be kept so quiet I also live in the area but didn't hear about it for years.

    Cant believe I never heard about it..


    https://www.politicalirish.com/threads/standing-ovation-at-bohemian-fc-for-nigerian-ismahil-akinade-who-sexually-abused-teenage-girl.13264/


  • #5051
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,417 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    sullzz wrote: »
    Cant believe I never heard about it..


    https://www.politicalirish.com/threads/standing-ovation-at-bohemian-fc-for-nigerian-ismahil-akinade-who-sexually-abused-teenage-girl.13264/

    Nor I . How strange we never heard about it but I cannot believe they were not jailed ? They were 16 years old . As my husband said “ old enough to rape then old enough to go to jail “


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  • #5052
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    That’s bonkers. Truly. We’re such a small country you’d imagine that would have been everywhere.

    Kept that quiet though. Mad


  • #5053
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    People say we are so small word of mouth is enough and if something major happens everyone will know but actually we are just as reliant on the media as any other country.


  • #5054
    Corruptedmorals
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    Would all have been in the school when I was but it happened later. <SNIP> is from a well known big family and for that alone I'm surprised it's not more known.


  • #5055
    leitrim4life
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 67 ✭✭leitrim4life


    tuxy wrote: »
    People say we are so small word of mouth is enough and if something major happens everyone will know but actually we are just as reliant on the media as any other country.

    The woman i was renting the room from at the time said leixlip was 2 different villages forced to be one town, she kept going on about those "up the hill" as though they were a different species lol.


  • #5056
    OwlsZat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    splinter65 wrote: »
    What harm is being done by the speculation?
    tuxy wrote: »
    I can only guess that these posters think the conviction is not safe and need to create more evidence in their mind.

    Nobody with a right mind has the slightest worry about the conviction. Most are more worried about living next or near the murdering manipulative psychopath on release.


  • #5057
    sullzz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,409 ✭✭✭sullzz


    leitrim4life wrote: »
    The woman i was renting the room from at the time said leixlip was 2 different villages forced to be one town, she kept going on about those "up the hill" as though they were a different species lol.

    Back in the day it was like 2 different towns.
    I am from " up the hill" originally but now live " up the far end ".
    When I was growing up , in my teens, there was bitter rivalry between the two areas, youd be battered if you ventured between the two on your own.
    When I moved up " the far end" it was strange, I didnt know anyone.

    That's a separate thread altogether....


  • #5058
    mrjoneill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 536 ✭✭✭mrjoneill


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I don’t think there is any evidence that says they led her to Laraghchon to lay the blame on Lucan . The house was abandoned and empty and I imagine that was the reason for bringing her to that point .I doubt they were even that cute , well Boy A sure wasn’t as he brought his murder pack home with him


    Three km is a very long distance to lead someone to their death and this was through the fields where their sighting would be a minimum, I do believe this was to throw Gardai of the Leixlip scent.

    Boy A was wise enough to state to the Garda who took his DNA that Ana's hand had crossed over the front of his body. I presume this was to cover the finding of forensic fibers from Ana on his clothing. His mother handed over his boots & washed clothes. But it was not visible to the naked eye blood spatter on his boots. I presume it was the same for the other stuff the “murder kit” of knee pads & shinguards', mask and bag and I presume he believed the Gardai would not know he had uses these so there would be no need to destroy them. They had done the perfect crime. He had also worn gloves so I presume he was aware of not leaving prints. So often in these juvenile murders the planning goes into doing the actual act while ignoring the aftermath or giving it very little attention. If Boy A had destroyed his “murder kit” washed his boots, removed Ana's top from the scene which his DNA was found on, removed the tape around her throat there was no forensics to tie him to the murder. More than likely the top got contaminated with his semen in wiping up a sex act he did on Ana's body. He probably discarded it at the scene believing it would not be used in forensics as it would be treated like other rubbish in the room and not tied into the crime scene. He would have sung dumb under questioning and Gardai would not be able to be so definite with the questioning of Boy B. Boy A initial reaction when confronted with the forensic evidence was disbelief in that, “Are you joking me? Are you actually being serious?” . Boy B only cooperated to the minimum when found out and this was after repeated interviews. Boy B stated when asked what was in the back-pack he carried, it was a bottle of water, yet we have him stating he drank water at the Park Rangers tap, so he could very well have clothing, gloves and footwear which he destroyed. I do believe only for the forensic evidence Ana's brutal murder would not be solved with convictions. Although the strong suspicion would remain of these two involvement, but then again their age would always be in their favor for its so difficult to comprehend so evil so young.


  • #5059
    SirChenjin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭SirChenjin


    I hope that Ana's family are receiving all appropriate support in their terrible loss.

    Unfortunately a lot of focus seems to be on the perpetrators of this horrendous crime.

    Nothing will ever comfort her family who loved her so deeply.

    I hope that the sentence handed down will reflect the horrific crime committed, that is all.


  • #5060
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 19,681 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    I finally read Conor Gallagher's long piece in the Irish Times recently. It gave the background, details from the court, the search, discovery of her body and snippets from the Garda interviews.

    Whilst it was very sad, it painted a good picture of Ana and I hope that lives on in most people's imagination, more than what the two scumbags did.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



  • #5061
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,417 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    mrjoneill wrote: »
    Three km is a very long distance to lead someone to their death and this was through the fields where their sighting would be a minimum, I do believe this was to throw Gardai of the Leixlip scent.


    .
    Throwing the Gardai off the scent of Leixlip was hardly going to be that easy
    Ana was from Leixlip , Boy B was from Leixlip and they entered the park in Leixlip
    I believe both boys thought they were far cleverer than they actually were .I think they used the house as it is a dark abandoned house and they led her there to kill her .It was a long way but it is unique in being the easiest to access from Leixlip through Catherines park . They thought they would lead Gardai off the scent but they simply were not bright enough to fool anyone .


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  • #5062
    OwlsZat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    SirChenjin wrote: »
    Nothing will ever comfort her family who loved her so deeply.

    While I get your trying to empathise with the suffering the victims family have gone though. Your point is simply untrue and unhelpful. It's often said that a tragedy is as bad for those left behind. They will have to retain their sanity in face of tremendous grief and deal with everyone else expressing their grief to them. As part of this process they will take comfort from anything they can. In this case that.

    - Ana did nothing wrong
    - There is huge public support and remembrance for Ana
    - The Garda did an excellent job and the killers have been caught and will be convicted
    - Ana's death may drive legislative change to prevent bullying of future students
    - If the family are religious hundreds upon thousands of prayers have been said for Ana

    All these points and others become hugely important for a grieving family.


  • #5063
    Vicarious Function
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Vicarious Function


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    While I get your trying to empathise with the suffering the victims family have gone though. Your point is simply untrue and unhelpful. It's often said that a tragedy is as bad for those left behind. They will have to retain their sanity in face of tremendous grief and deal with everyone else expressing their grief to them. As part of this process they will take comfort from anything they can. In this case that.

    - Ana did nothing wrong
    - There is huge public support and remembrance for Ana
    - The Garda did an excellent job and the killers have been caught and will be convicted
    - Ana's death may drive legislative change to prevent bullying of future students
    - If the family are religious hundreds upon thousands of prayers have been said for Ana

    All these points and others become hugely important for a grieving family.

    Add to that, legislation controlling access to porn sites for young people under a certain age. It's an awful reflection on this country that young boys (especially) rely on access to Porn and the Dark Web for their sex education.


  • #5064
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Vicarious Function wrote: »
    Add to that, legislation controlling access to porn sites for young people under a certain age. It's an awful reflection on this country that young boys (especially) rely on access to Porn and the Dark Web for their sex education.

    That ain't gonna happen.


  • #5065
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Vicarious Function wrote: »
    rely on access to Porn and the Dark Web for their sex education.

    You know that typing "dark web" into a clear web search engine doesn't give you access to it?
    Anyone can host a tor node so how would you go about restricting access?


  • #5066
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Just wanted to bump this, as something practical to maybe consider doing...

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110495759&postcount=3635

    Again, I want to stress that I am in no way associated.


  • #5067
    Vicarious Function
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Vicarious Function


    tuxy wrote: »
    You know that typing "dark web" into a clear web search engine doesn't give you access to it?
    Anyone can host a tor node so how would you go about restricting access?


    I'm no expert on how it's done, but IMO, something must be done using available expertise to control access by very young children to dangerous websites.


  • #5068
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Vicarious Function wrote: »
    I'm no expert on how it's done, but IMO, something must be done using available expertise to control access by very young children to dangerous websites.


    1: Stop using the internet as a babysitting service

    Simples


    2 : It's disgraceful using a thread about two Irish scumbags murdering a girl to push your agenda


    .


  • #5069
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Vicarious Function wrote: »
    I'm no expert on how it's done, but IMO, something must be done using available expertise to control access by very young children to dangerous websites.

    If China with it's vast resources and technology can't restrict internet access for its citizens then Ireland has no chance. A different approach will have to be attempted involving responsibility from parents.


  • #5070
    Vicarious Function
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Vicarious Function


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Stop using the internet as a babysitting service

    Simples

    I wouldn't say Simples! If it were that simple, there would not be the problem. You see it everywhere, on buses, in resturants etc, toddlers under two are handed smartphones to look at stuff by their parents. Even today I had lunch in a restaurant. There were three at the table next to me - a couple and a child undr six (I'd say). The couple were deep in conversation for the whole of the meal, the child was concentrating on a phone for the whole time. I never saw either of the adults address the child during that whole time, they were just into each other and the child was left to her own devices re the phone. She never made any effort to attract the adults' attention.

    If this is the way it is with toddlers and under sixes now, what can we expwct by the time they reach age thirteen?


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  • #5071
    SirChenjin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭SirChenjin


    The Black Oil wrote: »
    I finally read Conor Gallagher's long piece in the Irish Times recently. It gave the background, details from the court, the search, discovery of her body and snippets from the Garda interviews.

    Whilst it was very sad, it painted a good picture of Ana and I hope that lives on in most people's imagination, more than what the two scumbags did.

    It's a very good article and yes, I have said a few times on the thread it's so important that Ana is remembered - even by those of us who did not know her - as the beautiful and deeply loved person that she was.

    RTE did show some lovely clips on the news and on a subsequent programme that gave us, as outsiders, an insight into her (sadly all too short) life.

    RIP Ana.


This discussion has been closed.
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