Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

sullzz · 06-07-2019 12:06PM

Suckit wrote: »

I don't think being rude is really something the parents need worry about.
I also don't think the parents are to blame. I didn't see any of the identifying information either, so I didn't know what was posted other than somebody is of the opinion that one set of parents are decent and the others are not.
I still don't think it is considered gossiping considering the media attention that this case got, and worse the actual case itself.
I think the two boys may have gotten off lightly, especially if they get out within 10 years. Oberstown is often considered and described as luxurious by people who have been there and worked there.
What they did to Ana was heinous and vile, the lowest of the low. Pure scum conniving to take an innocent, naive girl away from her house and family under the guise of meeting a boy she was attracted to, to sadistically beat her so brutally, to her death and then leave her body there prolonging the parents agony. Then prolonging their agano again for another year with their pathetic plea of 'not guilty'.
So you will have to excuse me if I couldn't care less if the parents or you think that somebody is being rude 'gossiping' about them.
Whether or not you live in the same estate as them or Australia is utterly irrelevant to me.

Calm down, you're excused .
Your opinion means nothing to me, I wasnt replying to your post, so i dont really care what is irrelevant to you, your attitude is embarrassing.
Some serious amount of trolling on this thread is disgusting.

splinter65 · 06-07-2019 02:23PM

I’m almost completely uninterested in the identity of the boys and/or their parents. It doesn’t matter right now in the vast scheme of things.
I think it would matter if they were from the upper echelons of Irish society and there was any suggestion that power or money was going to influence sentencing, or from a terribly poor background and the judge was being put under pressure to take that into account.
But they seem to be ordinary kids from an ordinary background who turned into monsters out of the blue.
I’m very interested in the sentence they are going to get however and I do think that whenever they emerge back into society they need to be identified so that the rest of us can decide for ourselves wether we think we want to associate with them or not.
I don’t care what rehabilitation either of them get I would never ever trust either of them again.

Suckit · 06-07-2019 03:15PM

sullzz wrote: »

Calm down, you're excused .
Your opinion means nothing to me, I wasnt replying to your post, so i dont really care what is irrelevant to you, your attitude is embarrassing.
Some serious amount of trolling on this thread is disgusting.

Not sure how you read my post, but I couldn't have been calmer if I had taken a ton of xanax. Not really sure what attitude you are referring to either. You are the one posting "My daughter went to the same dance school with Ana and I live in the same estate as the murderers".. Not really sure if you think that means you have some sort of relevance or insight?

Oh, and you quoted my post, so I'm pretty sure you were replying to it.

Anyway.

My only interest from here on in, is really that the two of them get a severe enough sentence that insures some sort of justice is done for Ana, as going by previous murders committed by under 16 year olds, the sentence did not seem near enough.

tuxy · 06-07-2019 03:30PM

Suckit wrote: »

My only interest from here on in, is really that the two of them get a severe enough sentence that insures some sort of justice is done for Ana, as going by previous murders committed by under 16 year olds, the sentence did not seem near enough.

If they get a life sentence it will be the parole board that really decides how long they serve and will probably be close to a decade before anyone has any idea what that sentence will be. It sounds like they think they will somehow avoid a life sentence, is that correct? And what info do you base that on?

Suckit · 06-07-2019 03:53PM

Not me, other posters here earlier in the thread, who seemed to know what they were talking about when it comes to the law and sentencing, and acknowledged this is relatively new ground etc. Seemed to think that they will both be out before they are in their mid 20's if their psychological reports come back good for them.
I think it was posted a few times that B could get out even earlier.
Going by previous Oberstown detainees turning 18, they usually end up going to Dundrum was something else I saw mentioned, so it doesn't really seem like they will ever properly be punished (imo) accordingly.
I think the closest that we have had to this is Darren Goodwin who murdered Darragh Conroy, he was sentenced in 2004 and was released after 13 years.

Road-Hog · 06-07-2019 04:57PM

Suckit wrote: »

Not me, other posters here earlier in the thread, who seemed to know what they were talking about when it comes to the law and sentencing, and acknowledged this is relatively new ground etc. Seemed to think that they will both be out before they are in their mid 20's if their psychological reports come back good for them.
I think it was posted a few times that B could get out even earlier.
Going by previous Oberstown detainees turning 18, they usually end up going to Dundrum was something else I saw mentioned, so it doesn't really seem like they will ever properly be punished (imo) accordingly.
I think the closest that we have had to this is Darren Goodwin who murdered Darragh Conroy, he was sentenced in 2004 and was released after 13 years.

What is punishment in prison supposed to be......modern ‘punishment’ is simply to deprive one of ones liberty........exercise, recreation meals etc are provided but the freedom to decide to goto the pub, shop when ever one pleases is gone.....oberstown probably will Allow them video games/iPods etc and maybe very supervised day trips but I can’t see any form of the above being a holiday camp for detainees, (even these two abominarions of humans) especially, when you think about why the normal teen is out doing what they like when they like etc......so for these two animals a 30/40 year term or more being detained in a proper prison once they reach 18 would seem like a good term. Whether this reforms them or not is another question......are they beyond repairing.....? Don’t think it’s possible to wipe their ‘hard drives’ (brain) clean and start again....?

forumdedum · 06-07-2019 10:00PM

Suckit wrote: »

Not me, other posters here earlier in the thread, who seemed to know what they were talking about when it comes to the law and sentencing, and acknowledged this is relatively new ground etc. Seemed to think that they will both be out before they are in their mid 20's if their psychological reports come back good for them.
I think it was posted a few times that B could get out even earlier.
Going by previous Oberstown detainees turning 18, they usually end up going to Dundrum was something else I saw mentioned, so it doesn't really seem like they will ever properly be punished (imo) accordingly.
I think the closest that we have had to this is Darren Goodwin who murdered Darragh Conroy, he was sentenced in 2004 and was released after 13 years.

What's in Dundrum?

tuxy · 06-07-2019 10:08PM

forumdedum wrote: »

What's in Dundrum?

This?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Mental_Hospital

sullzz · 06-07-2019 10:09PM

Suckit wrote: »

Not sure how you read my post, but I couldn't have been calmer if I had taken a ton of xanax. Not really sure what attitude you are referring to either. You are the one posting "My daughter went to the same dance school with Ana and I live in the same estate as the murderers".. Not really sure if you think that means you have some sort of relevance or insight?

Oh, and you quoted my post, so I'm pretty sure you were replying to it.

Anyway.

My only interest from here on in, is really that the two of them get a severe enough sentence that insures some sort of justice is done for Ana, as going by previous murders committed by under 16 year olds, the sentence did not seem near enough.

Troll, get a life.
Dont put inverted commas on wording I never typed .

forumdedum · 06-07-2019 10:12PM

tuxy wrote: »

This?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Mental_Hospital

I see. Thank you.

Suckit · 06-07-2019 10:38PM

sullzz wrote: »

Troll, get a life.
Dont put inverted commas on wording I never typed .

You are the one who came in accusing another poster of 'gossiping' in a current affairs forum thread :rolleyes:, you couldn't have expected no reaction. Pretty sure you're still trolling with your replies.

sullzz · 06-07-2019 10:59PM

Suckit wrote: »

You are the one who came in accusing another poster of 'gossiping' in a current affairs forum thread :rolleyes:, you couldn't have expected no reaction. Pretty sure you're still trolling with your replies.

=
Yep you're 100% correct. Well done now move on.
Why would I troll a thread about the death of a teenage girl I knew.
Show some respect and get a life you inconsiderate excuse for a human.

Monumental · 06-07-2019 11:07PM

Totally heartbroken for Ana ,a horrific death at the hands of two teens ,unfortunately they will never pay the price for their actions . Personally I want them to suffer as Ana did but society wont let this happen Really angry and hope they struggle wirh their actions for the rest of their lives Remember this could have been your daughter ,grandaughter or great grandaughter no one should die like this RIP Ana x

Suckit · 06-07-2019 11:18PM

sullzz wrote: »

=
Yep you're 100% correct. Well done now move on.
Why would I troll a thread about the death of a teenage girl I knew.
Show some respect and get a life you inconsiderate excuse for a human.

Your first post in this thread was to accuse another poster of 'gossiping down the shops with a nosy neighbour'.
You knew when you posted that, that you weren't contributing anything, and must have been expecting a reaction by purposefully throwing in accusations. You still haven't posted anything constructive in the thread. I'm pretty sure that what you are doing is the very definition of a troll.
Unless you have anything to contribute to the thread, I don't see any point in you posting, other than your reason being more trolling.
And I honestly have nothing more to say to you.

I would like to get the thread back on topic.
_________________________________________________________

The DPP are worried that the boys will have their identities compromised online again when they are sentenced on Monday the 15th of July.

The online identification of Ana Kriégel’s murderers has “stabilised” but authorities are worried it will flare up again when the boys are sentenced, a court has heard.
The Central Criminal Court is dealing with contempt proceedings lodged against Facebook and Twitter for allegedly facilitating the public identification of the two 14-year-old boys, known as Boy A and Boy B, who were convicted of murdering Ana on June 18th.
Boy A had pleaded not guilty to the murder and sexual assault “involving serious violence” of Ana on May 14th, 2018, at Glenwood House, Laraghcon, Clonee Road, Lucan in Dublin.
Boy B had pleaded not guilty to the murder of the girl on the same date.
It is a criminal offence to name the teens or share any information which may lead to their identification.
Photographs of the boys were shared widely online in the days after their conviction prompting the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) to initiate contempt of court proceedings against the social media giants.
On Friday, Brendan Grehan SC, representing the DPP, said “matters are stable” but the Director has “very real concerns matters could flair up again given sentencing process is at particularly delicate stage.”
Boys A and B are to be sentenced on July 15th by Mr Justice Paul McDermott.
Mr Grehan asked Mr Justice Michael White to continue an previous order compelling Facebook and Twitter to immediately remove any posts identifying the boys on their platforms.
Counsel for Facebook, Rossa Fanning SC, said it had no objection to the order being continued.
He said Facebook has taken all reasonable steps to ensure compliance and that the DPP seemed to acknowledge this was the case.
Counsel for Twitter, Andrew Fitzpatrick SC, also did not object to Mr Grehan’s application. He handed in an affidavit from Twitter outlining the steps it had taken to comply with the order.

Mr Justice White agreed to continue the order until July 26th when the matter will be mentioned again.
Meanwhile, gardaí are continuing to conduct interviews with social media users accused of sharing photographs of Boy A and Boy B.
The Facebook and Twitter case is one of several contempt proceedings arising out of the seven-week trial.
On Monday, a journalist was fined €2,500 for accidentally naming Boy A during a radio interview the day after conviction. The radio station, Red FM, was fined €10,000.
The court is also due to rule if the editor of the Irish Daily Mail is responsible for a front page headline printed during the trial which mischaracterised the evidence against the boys.

I personally hope the Judge will impose a life sentence on both. Knowing they wouldn't serve anywhere near life anyway as it will be reviewed, but it might make them take their rehabilitation seriously.
Goodwin apparently didn't even partake in any of his rehabilitation classes until the final 12 months before his review, which no doubt was the reasoning behind it.
I realise you that they couldn't be forced to take the classes, but there should be some sort of extension on their case when their review comes up, if they haven't been.

gozunda · 06-07-2019 11:18PM

Monumental wrote: »

Totally heartbroken for Ana ,a horrific death at the hands of two teens ,unfortunately they will never pay the price for their actions . Personally I want them to suffer as Ana did but society wont let this happen Really angry and hope they struggle wirh their actions for the rest of their lives Remember this could have been your daughter ,grandaughter or great grandaughter no one should die like this RIP Ana x

The only aspect of this horrific crime imo which could have possibly prevented these two psychotic scotes from doing what they did - would have been a proactive control of the aparent aggressive bullying and ostracization which Ana was subject to. In this the school are at least partially culpable imo. Despite meeting with her parents and being advised of their daughters difficulties regarding abuse being adopted etc - it would appear from the media reports at least they did little or nothing. The fact that the ongoing bullying by her peers was well known is in itself abhorrent and inexcusable. Hopefully this may be a wakeup for other schools.

SirChenjin · 06-07-2019 11:20PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

My utmost respect goes to the Gardai involved in this case . The were professional and never once took their eye off the ball . It would have only taken one slip or one false move to get it struck out. The fact not one move was contended by lawyers says a lot
Well done to the Gardai , I hope they and the Kriegels are getting all the help they need to cope now

100% agree.

Every single one of them deserve great praise for the way that this case was handled from start to finish. It has to have been one of the most difficult cases ever, I am guessing, for the gardai involved.

Disappointing if what is alluded to upthread is true that someone described as 'well connected' is tattling to all and sundry about things gardai may or may not have said, and whether or not some may have needed to take leave and require counselling.

That is nobody's business, IMO. And I certainly hope that the gardai involved are receiving appropriate support.

Actually it's more than disappointing, it's disgraceful - if that is true - that someone is breaking confidence in relation to things they presumably heard or know through their work / being 'well connected'.

RIP Ana, and huge credit to everyone who contributed to ensuring that justice was done.

sullzz · 06-07-2019 11:32PM

SirChenjin wrote: »

Disappointing if what is alluded to upthread is true that someone described as 'well connected' is tattling to all and sundry about things gardai may or may not have said, and whether or not some may have needed to take leave and require counselling.

That is nobody's business, IMO. And I certainly hope that the gardai involved are receiving appropriate support.

Actually it's more than disappointing, it's disgraceful - if that is true - that someone is breaking confidence in relation to things they presumably heard or know through their work / being 'well connected'.

I agree, and I think disgraceful is an understatement, to publicly say this, with the risk of Ana's family reading, on top of what they already have heard during the whole case is horrible.
But according to 'Suckit' I'm a troll .. my opinion doesn't matter.

Monumental · 07-07-2019 12:33AM

gozunda wrote: »

The only aspect of this horrific crime imo which could have possibly prevented these two psychotic scotes from doing what they did - would have been a proactive control of the aparent aggressive bullying and ostracization which Ana was subject to. In this the school are at least partially culpable imo. Despite meeting with her parents and being advised of their daughters difficulties regarding abuse being adopted etc - it would appear from the media reports at least they did little or nothing. The fact that the ongoing bullying by her peers was well known is in itself abhorrent and inexcusable. Hopefully this may be a wakeup for other schools.

Welcome to the real world , there is no support for any child being bullied in school ! Been there ,school did'nt want to know ,it harms their reputation !Don't get me started ,I could write a book on it

avalidusername · 07-07-2019 02:11AM

Monumental wrote: »

Welcome to the real world , there is no support for any child being bullied in school ! Been there ,school did'nt want to know ,it harms their reputation !Don't get me started ,I could write a book on it

Give it a go. Seriously, if you have free time then why not, there's nothing to lose. Apparently it's one of the things that psychics/mediums pick up on everyone because all think it but few say or do it. That'll be 40 quid please:pac:

Regarding the upcoming sentencing, as it's such an unprecedented case in this country I think your guess is as good as mine. I'd like to see a life sentence for both, time served in Oberstown then transferred to whatever prison on 18th birthday. Length of life sentence to be determined by the government at the time of each eligible parole period, with the final call on the Minister for Justice of the day, full accountability for their release into society.

There should be a lot of accountability towards the bullying Ana was subjected too also, not just the sexual stuff from males. She was a beautiful teenage girl just trying to fit in and find friends starting a new school.

A slagging from one kid might seem minor, but if the same kid is getting the same slagging from 5 people, it's bullying pure and simple. There's plenty of reports about the regular every day life of Ana and her love of dance classes etc.

I have yet to see a report of somebody saying "Hey, that's not nice, you're being a dickhead, leave Ana alone"

Stop moaning ffs · 07-07-2019 07:20AM

Something on oberstown just occurred to me.
Do school aged inmates still have to go to classes while there?
Surely their education doesn’t just stop? I know a couple of people with boys in there and I’ve never thought to ask.

sullzz · 07-07-2019 07:34AM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Something on oberstown just occurred to me.
Do school aged inmates still have to go to classes while there?
Surely their education doesn’t just stop? I know a couple of people with boys in there and I’ve never thought to ask.

It is not enforced, they have a full education system within oberstown, the inmates can leave with a completed leaving certificate if they want, but they dont have to attend classes it they chose not to.

Stop moaning ffs · 07-07-2019 07:50AM

sullzz wrote: »

It is not enforced, they have a full education system within oberstown, the inmates can leave with a completed leaving certificate if they want, but they dont have to attend classes it they chose not to.

That makes sense thanks.
Adds to the ‘holiday camp’ aspect you hear mentioned about it.

sullzz · 07-07-2019 07:57AM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That makes sense thanks.
Adds to the ‘holiday camp’ aspect you hear mentioned about it.

Yes, I'm sure some of the inmates who get sent there find it like a 5star hotel compared to what they get dragged up in.

abff · 07-07-2019 08:59AM

sullzz wrote: »

It is not enforced, they have a full education system within oberstown, the inmates can leave with a completed leaving certificate if they want, but they dont have to attend classes it they chose not to.

If the objective is to rehabilitate, then providing an education makes sense. In a civilised society, incarceration has to be about more than just punishment.

Having said this, it grates to think about all the time and money that will be spent looking after these two *******s (sorry, can't think of a word that adequately describes them that won't earn me an instant ban), but it has to be done. Otherwise, we are allowing ourselves to be dragged down towards their level.

volchitsa · 07-07-2019 09:22AM

sullzz wrote: »

It is not enforced, they have a full education system within oberstown, the inmates can leave with a completed leaving certificate if they want, but they dont have to attend classes it they chose not to.

I wonder what the alternative is if they choose not to. If it's sitting around playing games on their phones that's not acceptable, TBH. But I can also see that the teachers need them to be willing to participate for there to be any point in them attending classes.

abff · 07-07-2019 09:53AM

volchitsa wrote: »

I wonder what the alternative is if they choose not to. If it's sitting around playing games on their phones that's not acceptable, TBH. But I can also see that the teachers need them to be willing to participate for there to be any point in them attending classes.

Will they be allowed to have phones?

volchitsa · 07-07-2019 09:56AM

abff wrote: »

Will they be allowed to have phones?

No idea. Anyway, doesn't have to be phones - computer games/consoles whatever, was my question.

iamwhoiam · 07-07-2019 10:10AM

volchitsa wrote: »

I wonder what the alternative is if they choose not to. If it's sitting around playing games on their phones that's not acceptable, TBH. But I can also see that the teachers need them to be willing to participate for there to be any point in them attending classes.

Well the alternative to school should be scrubbing potatoes or cleaning the toilets . But my guess is this would be hard on the little darlings . We mustn’t upset the murderers

Suckit · 07-07-2019 10:58AM

A glimpse inside the place. Personally, I think it is an insult sending them to Oberstown.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/what-happens-next-after-boys-found-guilty-of-ana-kri%C3%A9gel-murder-1.3929775

While all young people sent there have committed serious crimes, the facility refers to itself as a place of “care” rather than detention.

The daily regime unfolds in a more relaxed and less secure setting than an adult prison; one where staff prepare cooked breakfasts for young offenders as treats and where playing video games, watching movies and being given the space and time to take private phone calls is part of the daily regime.

Young people are brought on day trips outside the campus, including swimming and to the cinema, and they also receive pocket money if their behaviour is deemed good enough.....

.....All of the young offenders have their own en-suite bedroom...
...“You have a TV in your bedroom that is turned off at 2am and can be turned back on at 9am,” the information booklet for each offender informs them...
.... “Multipurpose rooms” are also included in each unit where young offenders can watch movies, play video games and take phone calls in private.

Meals are delivered into each unit and the young criminals sit together at meal times. At the weekends staff prepare a cooked breakfast for the young people and at all times any special dietary requirements can be catered for....

...Breakfast is served at 9.30am each day and each young offender must then attend school on campus from 10am, Monday to Friday. Lunch is served from 12 noon to 1.30pm followed by another 1½ hours of school, which ends at 3pm...
..During the school day lessons are 45 minutes long, with four classes per day leading to the offenders sitting their Leaving Cert and Junior Cert....

Stop moaning ffs · 07-07-2019 11:02AM

That sounds like they all have to attend classes. Good. Not every kid on there is a write off to society. We have to remember that. It sounds cushy number in a way but if it was a harsh environment where they had manual labour or whatever they all wouldn’t come out reformed exactly would they.

It also sounds like a more structured safe and healthy environment than probably a lot of the kids in there are from in their families and home lives. That would make you wonder too

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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