Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

damowill · 03-07-2019 11:40AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wasn't Maguire deemed to expensive last season and that was off the back of a brilliant world cup for him ,
What has changed that they are willing to fork out this summer

Point the finger at Ed Woodward here. He made that decision last year, one he isnt qualified to make. It doesnt matter if jose was in charge or any manager, Woodward said no. Now he is saying yes. The man is an idiot. Im not sure what his reasons were last season and whats changed this season. I like Maguire, but going for him now is a little strange. You would have hoped that, stats and scouting analysis on Maguire and other CBs that the then manager wanted, would have pointed out his weakness and frailties, that gave Woodward the case to say NO. That obviously wasnt the case because he is still the same player, Maguire 2018 is still the same Maguire 2019.

It wasnt a money decision as we only spent £80m and received £30m in transfers. Not a lot for a club our size. plus Maguire was only 25 at the time a good age to sign a CB.

i dont really want to bring up the whole DoF discussion here as its been discussed already in lenght but Woodward and the DoF is the elephant in the room

dave_o_brien · 03-07-2019 11:49AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wasn't Maguire deemed to expensive last season and that was off the back of a brilliant world cup for him ,
What has changed that they are willing to fork out this summer

The market, obviously.

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2019 11:53AM

dave_o_brien wrote: »

The market, obviously.

Are you saying they thought they could do better and now they are settling for Maguire at a more expensive fee ?

Father Hernandez · 03-07-2019 11:59AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wasn't Maguire deemed to expensive last season and that was off the back of a brilliant world cup for him ,
What has changed that they are willing to fork out this summer

Ed Woodward was born

Quandary · 03-07-2019 12:06PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Are you saying they thought they could do better and now they are settling for Maguire at a more expensive fee ?

Get with the modern football program dude. That's how we roll these days.

Sign Fellaini for 23mil now?

Nah, let's wait and pay 27mil later.

Any other club in the world would have bounced Woodward out the football business door and left him do what he is good at years ago. Not us though. It's a very frustrating mystery to which no one seems to know the answer.

dave_o_brien · 03-07-2019 12:19PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Are you saying they thought they could do better and now they are settling for Maguire at a more expensive fee ?

I'm saying that the market, which is a vast and multi-faceted entity with more pressures and variables than can be adequately described in a single post, has advised that the cost of his transfer is likely to be £75M odd. Factors that dictate this include, but are not limited to:

1. Leicester's need to sell, which is pretty low given their financial health.
2. Leicester's desire to sell, which is extremely low given his talent and the cost of a replacement.
3. His existing contract.
4. The bidding club's means; if we assume it's United or City, these are both extremely wealthy. This affects the ultimate cost.
5. Inflation in prices since last year - keep in mind that the record set for Stones in 2016 has been exceeded around 10 times and the current record exceeds that by 50%+, suggesting an inflation rate of 16% per annum. This implies (badly, but still) £75M this year equates to roughly £63M last year.
6. Homegrown rules, particularly with Brexit looming.
7. Alternatives available to the buying clubs and their desire to move to the buying clubs.
8. The urgency of the buying club.
9. The budget of the buying club and the impact this purchase would have on this.
10. The wealth pool that may be accessed by an improved performance platform; if he costs X over 5 years but contributes to an earning of 8X over the same period that may not have been achieved, then that was a worthwhile investment.
11. The risk of not purchasing.

But all of this "reality" is really dull and uninteresting in comparison to reductively thinking about the fact that £75M is a lot of money and Maguire isn't worth it in your opinion. Sure he plays for Leicester and isn't as good as VVD, who cost that much (ignoring the need of the buyer which was extreme and many other factors). As a means of comparison, VVD was a shocking amount of money, but has proven to be a bargain in hindsight. But at the time of the purchase, it could only ever have been reviewed as a pretty significant risk given the figures; that risk has been completely rewarded.

There's nothing wrong with your opinion about Maguire, but your opinion has little to no effect on the market dynamics that determine his cost.

EDIT: To answer your question more directly; No, I don't think that.

PARlance · 03-07-2019 12:20PM

damowill wrote: »

Point the finger at Ed Woodward here. He made that decision last year, one he isnt qualified to make. It doesnt matter if jose was in charge or any manager, Woodward said no. Now he is saying yes. The man is an idiot. Im not sure what his reasons were last season and whats changed this season. I like Maguire, but going for him now is a little strange. You would have hoped that, stats and scouting analysis on Maguire and other CBs that the then manager wanted, would have pointed out his weakness and frailties, that gave Woodward the case to say NO. That obviously wasnt the case because he is still the same player, Maguire 2018 is still the same Maguire 2019.

It wasnt a money decision as we only spent £80m and received £30m in transfers. Not a lot for a club our size. plus Maguire was only 25 at the time a good age to sign a CB.

i dont really want to bring up the whole DoF discussion here as its been discussed already in lenght but Woodward and the DoF is the elephant in the room

It's fairly obvious that there was more to do with than just budget or rating the player.

Jose signed Bailly in his first summer & Lindelof in his second, both for pretty significant fees at the time and both had failed to really impress. He wanted to spend (huge) on a third CB for the third consecutive summer. There's many things I would blame Woodword for, but I can understand why he was hesitant with the cheque book.

Worth noting that Maguire was a Hull player while Jose bought Bailly and Lindelof... Maguire could have been bought for similar/less... for all we know, Maguire could have been a potential that Mourinho rejected back then, only to do an expensive u-turn a year or two later.

Given the way Jose conducted himself last summer and that fact he had signed 2 CBs already, I'll give Ed some slack and focus on his other mistakes/faults.

Adamcp898 · 03-07-2019 12:41PM

We've offered DdG an improved contract, let's hope he signs.

damowill · 03-07-2019 12:48PM

PARlance wrote: »

It's fairly obvious that there was more to do with than just budget or rating the player.

Jose signed Bailly in his first summer & Lindelof in his second, both for pretty significant fees at the time and both had failed to really impress. He wanted to spend (huge) on a third CB for the third consecutive summer. There's many things I would blame Woodword for, but I can understand why he was hesitant with the cheque book.

Worth noting that Maguire was a Hull player while Jose bought Bailly and Lindelof... Maguire could have been bought for similar/less... for all we know, Maguire could have been a potential that Mourinho rejected back then, only to do an expensive u-turn a year or two later.

Given the way Jose conducted himself last summer and that fact he had signed 2 CBs already, I'll give Ed some slack and focus on his other mistakes/faults.

You're being too kind to him!!

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2019 12:50PM

dave_o_brien wrote: »

I'm saying that the market, which is a vast and multi-faceted entity with more pressures and variables than can be adequately described in a single post, has advised that the cost of his transfer is likely to be £75M odd. Factors that dictate this include, but are not limited to:

1. Leicester's need to sell, which is pretty low given their financial health.
2. Leicester's desire to sell, which is extremely low given his talent and the cost of a replacement.
3. His existing contract.
4. The bidding club's means; if we assume it's United or City, these are both extremely wealthy. This affects the ultimate cost.
5. Inflation in prices since last year - keep in mind that the record set for Stones in 2016 has been exceeded around 10 times and the current record exceeds that by 50%+, suggesting an inflation rate of 16% per annum. This implies (badly, but still) £75M this year equates to roughly £63M last year.
6. Homegrown rules, particularly with Brexit looming.
7. Alternatives available to the buying clubs and their desire to move to the buying clubs.
8. The urgency of the buying club.
9. The budget of the buying club and the impact this purchase would have on this.
10. The wealth pool that may be accessed by an improved performance platform; if he costs X over 5 years but contributes to an earning of 8X over the same period that may not have been achieved, then that was a worthwhile investment.
11. The risk of not purchasing.

But all of this "reality" is really dull and uninteresting in comparison to reductively thinking about the fact that £75M is a lot of money and Maguire isn't worth it in your opinion. Sure he plays for Leicester and isn't as good as VVD, who cost that much (ignoring the need of the buyer which was extreme and many other factors). As a means of comparison, VVD was a shocking amount of money, but has proven to be a bargain in hindsight. But at the time of the purchase, it could only ever have been reviewed as a pretty significant risk given the figures; that risk has been completely rewarded.

There's nothing wrong with your opinion about Maguire, but your opinion has little to no effect on the market dynamics that determine his cost.

EDIT: To answer your question more directly; No, I don't think that.

Ok back up a second I never gave MY OPINION on Maguire or his worth ,

I asked why UNITED thought he was too dear last season but are wiling to pay more now,

You have made this into some kind of Maguire v VVD , United v Liverpool thing off your own back I never mentioned any of that, As I said I ever even gave my opinion on the Maguire or what think his value is,

Liverpool fans living rent free in your head mate,

dave_o_brien · 03-07-2019 12:57PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Ok back up a second I never gave MY OPINION on Maguire or his worth ,

I asked why UNITED thought he was too dear last season but are wiling to pay more now,

You have made this into some kind of Maguire v VVD , United v Liverpool thing off your own back I never mentioned any of that, As I said I ever even gave my opinion on the Maguire or what think his value is,

Liverpool fans living rent free in your head mate,

On you first point, fair enough. You didn't give your opinion, but your use of the phrase "settling... at a more expensive fee" is fairly indicative of our opinion, no?

I am only using VVD as an illustration of how a fee that seems extreme soon becomes normalised and justifiable when it works out. He's a fantastic player, who I think has already repaid his fee and will go on to drive Liverpool onwards and upwards. His cost has however created a distortion in the market, and you can be sure it won't be too long before the record fee for a defender is broken again.

I might be unusual here, but I actually don't have that seething hatred of Liverpool or their fans that some have. Do I want them to win? No. Do I admire them? Massively! Do I provide lodgings charitably for their fans in any part of my body? Certainly not.

EDIT: I didn't address the below:

"I asked why UNITED thought he was too dear last season but are wiling to pay more now"

The answer is manifold, but ultimately the number of pounds might be the same, but the cost is not.

clubberlang12 · 03-07-2019 01:28PM

^^^ I like this Dave chap!!!

Trigger · 03-07-2019 01:54PM

clubberlang12 wrote: »

^^^ I like this Dave chap!!!

Dave's are great

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2019 02:19PM

dave_o_brien wrote: »

On you first point, fair enough. You didn't give your opinion, but your use of the phrase "settling... at a more expensive fee" is fairly indicative of our opinion, no?

I am only using VVD as an illustration of how a fee that seems extreme soon becomes normalised and justifiable when it works out. He's a fantastic player, who I think has already repaid his fee and will go on to drive Liverpool onwards and upwards. His cost has however created a distortion in the market, and you can be sure it won't be too long before the record fee for a defender is broken again.

I might be unusual here, but I actually don't have that seething hatred of Liverpool or their fans that some have. Do I want them to win? No. Do I admire them? Massively! Do I provide lodgings charitably for their fans in any part of my body? Certainly not.

EDIT: I didn't address the below:

"I asked why UNITED thought he was too dear last season but are wiling to pay more now"

The answer is manifold, but ultimately the number of pounds might be the same, but the cost is not.

I clearly asked if YOU where saying United where now Settling, So again I have not stated any opinion of mine about Maguire .

Its nothing to do with value of the fee or VVD or anyone else

The question was why do they see Maguire as there man NOW when he is the same player as he was last summer who then wasn't deemed good enough ,

The price for him now is slightly higher than last year because of the market so that even's it's self out ,

It comes down to why now is he seen as the CB United need but last year he wasn't

yabadabado · 03-07-2019 02:31PM

Poor Dave has to answer questions on behalf of the United board now

Whatsisname · 03-07-2019 02:34PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Ok back up a second I never gave MY OPINION on Maguire or his worth ,

I asked why UNITED thought he was too dear last season but are wiling to pay more now,

You have made this into some kind of Maguire v VVD , United v Liverpool thing off your own back I never mentioned any of that, As I said I ever even gave my opinion on the Maguire or what think his value is,

Liverpool fans living rent free in your head mate,

How do United fans know exactly what the board are thinking?

pjohnson · 03-07-2019 02:36PM

yabadabado wrote: »

Poor Dave has to answer questions on behalf of the United board now

We have a spare dave if one needs a rest.

bucketybuck · 03-07-2019 02:37PM

yabadabado wrote: »

Poor Dave has to answer questions on behalf of the United board now

They do need the help in fairness.

03-07-2019 02:38PM

yabadabado wrote: »

Poor Dave has to answer questions on behalf of the United board now

Id have him ahead of woodward any day of the week tbf

03-07-2019 02:41PM

The obsession with Utd is great, I'm glad somehow after finishing 6th we are still relevant at least

03-07-2019 02:47PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

When Jose was trying to sign Maguire last summer I mentioned how uninspiring a player I thought him to be then.

I also mentioned the the boards stance of not getting Maguire wasn't that unreasonable, although not ideal, based on two things, one being Jose's demeanor in press conferences that summer, he was very stroppy and based on history he was on course for his 3rd season self imposed drama and eventual exit. Secondly the two centre backs he did sign didn't look promising playing under him, none of the players did in his last season, the board had lost faith in him. Not sacking him in the summer was the real mistake.

Based on what we saw last season which was basically at one point a worse season than Moyes had I still stand by what I said many times last season, Maguire would have had very little effect on the disastrous sh*tshow Jose guided us too.

I see the angle your taking, which is the board are now only buying the backline Jose should of had. You can make that argument if you like but its a very shallow surface level one, Jose was intent on falling out with everyone at one point and did with multiple players, there is no guarantee Maguire would not have been one also.

This situation is different, Ole seems poles apart from Jose in terms of attitude and forming relationships with players and instilling confidence in them. Its his first transfer window to build what he wants. Jose had several and hundreds of millions to do it. None of Ole's signings are yet to succeed or fail, he hasn't a full season or start to a season yet.

The two situations are incomparable imo.

That's not what I asked. Did we or did we not require a CB last summer? Do we require one now? Two fairly straight forward questions.

The rest of your post is whataboutery

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2019 02:50PM

Fred The Red wrote: »

The obsession with Utd is great, I'm glad somehow after finishing 6th we are still relevant at least

Says your man , any negative post on boards with Liverpool or a Liverpool fan involved you'll see good aul Fred the red has hit the like button ,

There won't be a peep out of him giving his own opinion but good dame he knows where the like button is :rolleyes:

03-07-2019 02:59PM

That's some leap

pjohnson · 03-07-2019 02:59PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Says your man , any negative post on boards with Liverpool or a Liverpool fan involved you'll see good aul Fred the red has hit the like button ,

There won't be a peep out of him giving his own opinion but good dame he knows where the like button is :rolleyes:

Constructive to discussion.

Its almost like you are just squalidly squating rent free in a dark corner.

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2019 03:00PM

Its almost like you are just squalidly squating rent free in a dark corner.[/QUOTE]

Constructive to discussion

Jurgen The German · 03-07-2019 03:01PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Says your man , any negative post on boards with Liverpool or a Liverpool fan involved you'll see good aul Fred the red has hit the like button ,

There won't be a peep out of him giving his own opinion but good dame he knows where the like button is :rolleyes:

You boys are fierce concerned with the thanks button and who uses it. It's very strange altogether.

pjohnson · 03-07-2019 03:02PM

And there we have it folks its that time of discussion where the broken quotes get reeled out. Right on que.

So predictable.

PhlegmyMoses · 03-07-2019 03:02PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Says your man , any negative post on boards with Liverpool or a Liverpool fan involved you'll see good aul Fred the red has hit the like button ,

There won't be a peep out of him giving his own opinion but good dame he knows where the like button is :rolleyes:

What the **** is this weirdness over somebody thanking something. Been going on forever with this particular poster. The thanks button is there to be used. This place can be absolutely bizarre.

03-07-2019 03:03PM

Jurgen The German wrote: »

You boys are fierce concerned with the thanks button and who uses it. It's very strange altogether.

Can't remember the last time I paid rent

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2019 03:04PM

Jurgen The German wrote: »

You boys are fierce concerned with the thanks button and who uses it. It's very strange altogether.

I just find it funny , sure look who liked your post first

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

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