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Kildare farmer objects to €8bn Intel investment...

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Comments

  • #422
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Boggles wrote: »
    I agree, but where is your proof this guy is objecting on vexatious grounds, something you seem to be stating as fact.

    I didn't say that, that was you. In fact you said he was objecting because he thought they would come for his land again, which is an unrelated matter to the development under consideration.

    As far as I remember his observation for this development was on natura 2000/ environmental grounds.


  • #423
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,734 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    satguy wrote: »
    How many new jobs is this man holding up ?
    How much Tax would 4 or 5 hundred workers pay ?
    How many of our graduate sons and daughters would love to work there ?
    How can guys like him and the ones that help up the apple data center sleep at night ?


    i hope thomas reid does sleep well at night, every night.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #424
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    satguy wrote: »
    How many new jobs is this man holding up ?
    How much Tax would 4 or 5 hundred workers pay ?
    How many of our graduate sons and daughters would love to work there ?
    How can guys like him and the ones that help up the apple data center sleep at night ?

    If Intel can't put their new fab in place, the operation will wind down completely. 5000 jobs including support jobs will go.


  • #425
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    If Intel can't put their new fab in place, the operation will wind down completely. 5000 jobs including support jobs will go.
    If Intel don't get to build the new fab as a result of this objection then the objection is valid. If the fab doesn't get permission then it is Intel's fault, not Reid's!
    How do you not understand that?

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  • #426
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    satguy wrote: »
    How many new jobs is this man holding up ?
    How much Tax would 4 or 5 hundred workers pay ?
    How many of our graduate sons and daughters would love to work there ?
    How can guys like him and the ones that help up the apple data center sleep at night ?

    All citizens are equal. We can't disenfranchise one so that others can benefit.


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  • #427
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    satguy wrote: »
    How many new jobs is this man holding up ?
    How much Tax would 4 or 5 hundred workers pay ?
    How many of our graduate sons and daughters would love to work there ?
    How can guys like him and the ones that help up the apple data center sleep at night ?

    Well hopefully they sleep soundly

    Nothing better than a good nights sleep


  • #428
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,958 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    I didn't say that, that was you.

    What did you mean by this so?
    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Intel are not trying to put this man off his land. That battle is over. This development has no impact on him or his farm.

    So what is motivating him? Have a think about it.
    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    In fact you said he was objecting because he thought they would come for his land again, which is an unrelated matter to the development under consideration.

    As far as I remember his observation for this development was on natura 2000/ environmental grounds.

    For him it's a very real and related matter.

    I imagine he is thinking 10/15 years down the line with law changes and further expansion and another knock on the door from some arrogant fat prick telling him to lawyer up we are taking your land. Of course he can't object on those grounds.

    Reid is not the bad guy in this however way you want to paint him to be.

    He was bullied for 6 years and stood for himself, we need more like him.

    People who value what they have above money are very dangerous and very necessary.


  • #429
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,376 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    ShlugEireann wrote: »
    And is it really good to have such a single mammoth employer? If Intel left tomorrow (which could easily happen) the whole area would collapse.

    They could all start working on clearing out Thomas' living room, its a bloody mess.

    That would keep the 5000 busy for a while.


  • #430
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,227 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    satguy wrote: »
    How many new jobs is this man holding up ?
    How much Tax would 4 or 5 hundred workers pay ?
    How many of our graduate sons and daughters would love to work there ?
    How can guys like him and the ones that help up the apple data center sleep at night ?

    The Irish are often so easily bought.

    You would love China.
    Hell you would love the US where huge corporations have walked all over the citizens for decades.
    Hell they have even polluted their ground water giving them cancer and then give the finger to them when they look for redress.
    And no I am not saying intel gave anyone cancer or polluted anywhere.
    But they have adopted the bully boy tactics so often used by other giant corporations.

    I also wonder how many of the ones screaming about how intel might up sticks also believe we should screw our only truly indigenous industry over carbon creation. :rolleyes:

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • #431
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    NIMAN wrote: »
    They could all start working on clearing out Thomas' living room, its a bloody mess.

    That would keep the 5000 busy for a while.

    You leave his documents alone, he knows where everything is now.


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  • #432
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    jmayo wrote: »
    The Irish are often so easily bought.

    You would love China.
    Hell you would love the US where huge corporations have walked all over the citizens for decades.
    Hell they have even polluted their ground water giving them cancer and then give the finger to them when they look for redress.
    And no I am not saying intel gave anyone cancer or polluted anywhere.
    But they have adopted the bully boy tactics so often used by other giant corporations.

    I also wonder how many of the ones screaming about how intel might up sticks also believe we should screw our only truly indigenous industry over carbon creation. :rolleyes:

    Easily and cheaply as well


  • #433
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    jmayo wrote: »
    The Irish are often so easily bought.

    I would be curious to see how many people supporting Intel in this case were also welcoming of Trump when he arrived in Doonbeg.


  • #434
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Boggles wrote: »
    What did you mean by this so?





    For him it's a very real and related matter.

    I imagine he is thinking 10/15 years down the line with law changes and further expansion and another knock on the door from some arrogant fat prick telling him to lawyer up we are taking your land. Of course he can't object on those grounds.

    Reid is not the bad guy in this however way you want to paint him to be.

    He was bullied for 6 years and stood for himself, we need more like him.

    People who value what they have above money are very dangerous and very necessary.
    I asked you what was motivating him, you could've replied it was concern for the environment as per his observation but you responded that it was his fear that they would try and take his land again. That fear is unrelated to the proposed development.

    I'm glad he made his stand and was vindicated in the courts. Reid is not the bad guy for standing up for himself.


  • #435
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,958 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    I asked you what was motivating him, you could've replied it was concern for the environment as per his observation but you responded that it was his fear that they would try and take his land again. That fear is unrelated to the proposed development.

    He was telling the truth when asked the question, he can't put that down as an objection, so he has to object on other grounds. How do you know what their long term plan is?

    His fear is very real and no way being done out of spite, why do I know that? Because he said so and I think he is an honest man.


  • #436
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    If Intel don't get to build the new fab as a result of this objection then the objection is valid. If the fab doesn't get permission then it is Intel's fault, not Reid's!
    How do you not understand that?

    I understand that. If the objection is valid ABP will rule so and that will be the end of the matter.

    Again speaking in generalities and not with specific reference to this case it is possible to draw out a planning process for so long that a commercial decision will need to be made before the process can be completed. Perhaps that is the fault of the system and again stressing that I'm not saying that this is the intention here, but individuals can play the system to their benefit as they too know that this commercial pressure exists. Or it can happen unintentionally as well.

    In the case of a housing developer, it is known that they have only limited time to access borrowings from a bank. If an individual objects and continues to object knowing that they just have to run down the clock and not actually get a judgement in their favour to stop the development, one would have to ask if that is fair?


  • #437
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    satguy wrote: »
    How many new jobs is this man holding up ?
    How much Tax would 4 or 5 hundred workers pay ?
    How many of our graduate sons and daughters would love to work there ?
    How can guys like him and the ones that held up the apple data center sleep at night ?

    The man has rights. I have no interest living in a country that operates akin to the Chinese state. I'd rather live in a society than an economy.


  • #438
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,295 ✭✭✭threeball


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    No it isn't. The common good must be considered and win out.

    As long as he is compensated fairly then there is no issue as far as I'm concerned. Id have no problem with my property being CPO'd

    You'd have a problem if it was all you had in the world and would never work another day.
    The common good isn't being served here. Just the greed of a few


  • #439
    Stacksofwacks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Stacksofwacks


    satguy wrote: »
    How many new jobs is this man holding up ?
    How much Tax would 4 or 5 hundred workers pay ?
    How many of our graduate sons and daughters would love to work there ?
    How can guys like him and the ones that held up the apple data center sleep at night ?


    How many new jobs is this man holding up ? He is a private landowner who dosen't want to sell his farm, not his problem

    How much Tax would 4 or 5 hundred workers pay ? I'm sure there's an app somewhere to work that out

    How many of our graduate sons and daughters would love to work there Our beloved graduate sons and daughters don't have the absolute right to work anywhere, particularly not on Thomas Reid's farm

    How can guys like him and the ones that held up the apple data center sleep at night ?


    How can anyone who lives by free market rules and regulations sleep well at night


  • #440
    HopsAndJumps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭HopsAndJumps


    Stacksofwacks wrote: »
    How many new jobs is this man holding up ? He is a private landowner who dosen't want to sell his farm, not his problem

    How much Tax would 4 or 5 hundred workers pay ? I'm sure there's an app somewhere to work that out

    How many of our graduate sons and daughters would love to work there Our beloved graduate sons and daughters don't have the absolute right to work anywhere, particularly not on Thomas Reid's farm

    How can guys like him and the ones that held up the apple data center sleep at night ?


    How can anyone who lives by free market rules and regulations sleep well at night


    He is not being asked to sell his farm. Though his objection is holding up construction, so yes he is holding up jobs.



    its more than 4/5 hundred jobs. 1800 full time Intel workers. approximately 1500 construction workers and a few more thousand Intel support staff.


  • #441
    satguy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭satguy


    Stacksofwacks wrote: »


    How many of our graduate sons and daughters would love to work there Our beloved graduate sons and daughters don't have the absolute right to work anywhere, particularly not on Thomas Reid's farm

    Just wait till your graduate sons and daughters are driving an UBER Taxi,, because there are no good graduate jobs for them.

    Maybe Thomas Reid will hire them on his farm to pick spuds.


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  • #442
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Stacksofwacks wrote: »
    [B]How many new jobs is this man holding up ? He is a private landowner who dosen't want to sell his farm, not his problem[/B]

    How much Tax would 4 or 5 hundred workers pay ? I'm sure there's an app somewhere to work that out

    How many of our graduate sons and daughters would love to work there Our beloved graduate sons and daughters don't have the absolute right to work anywhere, particularly not on Thomas Reid's farm

    How can guys like him and the ones that held up the apple data center sleep at night ?


    How can anyone who lives by free market rules and regulations sleep well at night
    They are not after his land, not any more at least. He fought the IDA and won.

    The issue is that he's objected to the new Fab and consequently the planning process had been extended. There are fears not that planning will be rejected, but that the process will take so long, especially if goes to court after ABP, that Intel will get tired of waiting and go somewhere else that has less planning hassle.

    Has to be said that there is no evidence that the process will be dragged out beyond ABP process like the apple athenry saga.

    If Intel get fed up and not upgraded, Leixlip will almost certainly be run down over the next few years and closed as its fabrication technology becomes outdated. The new factory secures it's future for about 8-10 years.


  • #443
    Stacksofwacks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Stacksofwacks


    satguy wrote: »
    Just wait till your graduate sons and daughters are driving an UBER Taxi,, because there are no good graduate jobs for them.

    Maybe Thomas Reid will hire them on his farm to pick spuds.

    Thats a government/IDA issue, not Thomas Reid's issue


  • #444
    satguy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭satguy


    Stacksofwacks wrote: »
    Thats a government/IDA issue, not Thomas Reid's issue

    You might need to rethink that.

    If we keep letting high paid jobs go overseas,, Tommy's spuds will all we can afford to eat.


  • #445
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    satguy wrote: »
    Tommy's spuds will all we can afford to eat.
    You seem fixated on the spuds he doesn’t grow.

    :D


  • #446
    Stacksofwacks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Stacksofwacks


    satguy wrote: »
    You might need to rethink that.

    If we keep letting high paid jobs go overseas,, Tommy's spuds will all we can afford to eat.

    Why would we be letting jobs go overseas, if companies want to invest here I'm sure there's plenty of people will to sell up a plot of land at the right price. I know I wouldnt have any problem, for that kind of money I'd be on the first plane to las Vegas, but thats just me and I aint Thomas Ried


  • #447
    HopsAndJumps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭HopsAndJumps


    The objection delays the permission by 6 months. That's a big hit to Intel.

    There is very little substance in his objection. its about 11 pages of ranting, here is a snip of one of the pages. :rolleyes:


  • #448
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,958 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    So what did the attempted heist cost us?

    Must have been north of 2 million.

    Anyone from the IDA dragged in to explain why they tried to illegally take a farm of a land off a law abiding citizen?


  • #449
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    HopsAndJumps wrote:
    The objection delays the permission by 6 months. That's a big hit to Intel.


    Imagine if Intel and the IDA had left this man alone after he rejected the initial offer. No court case, no serial objections. But they didn't so as far as I concerned once he's within the law Reid should object every opportunity he gets and appeal if his objection is over ruled. Old proverb ' reap what you sow'.


  • #450
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    satguy wrote: »
    Just wait till your graduate sons and daughters are driving an UBER Taxi,, because there are no good graduate jobs for them.

    Maybe Thomas Reid will hire them on his farm to pick spuds.

    At the moment Ireland cannot supply enough qualified staff for these job

    Go to any of the multi national companies and they have loads of open positions and no staff to fill the
    Most of them are bringing in people from all over the world to fill them


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  • #451
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,958 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    At the moment Ireland cannot supply enough qualified staff for these job

    Go to any of the multi national companies and they have loads of open positions and no staff to fill the
    Most of them are bringing in people from all over the world to fill them

    Actually there is a thriving legal industry at the moment in fast tracking Visa's for Non Eu citizens to get them into the tech jobs.


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