Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

tuxy · 24-06-2019 02:08PM

Random sample wrote: »

Is there a thing in Irish law about a solicitor not being able to defend you if you plead innocent but they know you are guilty?

I don't believe so. It's not up to them to decide the verdict. All they can do is work with the evidence to provide reasonable doubt, the same evidence the defence has access to. In a fair case the truth will come out if the evidence is there to back it up.

If a solicitor wants to stop working for a client they must give a valid reason and I don't think it could be because they think the client is guilty. Stating that would impact the case and it's not for them to make such accusations.

ohnonotgmail · 24-06-2019 02:08PM

Random sample wrote: »

Is there a thing in Irish law about a solicitor not being able to defend you if you plead innocent but they know you are guilty?

Most 13 year old boys would be a lot more afraid of their mums reaction than anything the Gardai could throw at them. I could see that as a reason for boy b to keep talking.

The Bar website covers this.

https://www.lawlibrary.ie/About-Us/FAQs.aspx

If the client has confessed to the barrister to the crime of which they are accused, or admitted an incriminating fact, but still wishes to fight the case instead of pleading guilty, the barrister, if the client so instructs, can still defend the case by making the State prove the client committed the crime beyond reasonable doubt. But the barrister cannot call evidence or make submissions to the judge or jury that the client did not commit the crime. The barrister can cross-examine the prosecution witnesses with a view to showing that the State has failed to prove their client committed the crime and should therefore be acquitted.

Eric Cartman · 24-06-2019 02:30PM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

True. He referred to her as slutty in the police interviews, didn't he .

So, if he didn't think anything harmful was going to happen, why take a girl he didn't like to an abandoned house 3k from her house to a boy who didn't like her either?

He said she dressed slutty, hardly “i want her dead” material.

This 3km from the house business is a nonsense, that park would be a very common spot for youths to hang out there from Ana’s estate. It would be quire common for people to walk close by that building as its on a popular walking route. People acting like they brought her to some far off no mans land that nobody ever visits.

The kid has definitely through his own intention or as a patsy become embroiled in this , but what helps nobody is this rampant speculation about perfectly normal things 13 year old boys do like hang out in parks , like masks , lend people tape and say not so nice things about how teenage girls dress as definitive murderous traits.

I 100% bet you wouldnt find a 13-14 year old lad in the land who hasnt called somebody a weirdo/loner or commented on the way a girl dresses and hasn’t been interested in hanging out with some lad who has brought a samurai sword or some other weapon back from moore street / holidays. Lets not start pretending that every 13 year old boy doing 13 year old boy things is suddenly 80% of the way to being a murderer

mrjoneill · 24-06-2019 02:34PM

tuxy wrote: »

I don't believe so. It's not up to them to decide the verdict. All they can do is work with the evidence to provide reasonable doubt, the same evidence the defence has access to. In a fair case the truth will come out if the evidence is there to back it up.

If a solicitor wants to stop working for a client they must give a valid reason and I don't think it could be because they think the client is guilty. Stating that would impact the case and it's not for them to make such accusations.

A solicitor can walk away from their client anytime except when charges are preferred and they are before the courts. It usual then for the solicitor/barrister to ask the court to be excused. This is done without giving reason as the cant give reason without implying their clients guilt. The usual reason for seeking to be excused is their client has lied to them and this has been exposed in court. A solicitor/barrister must at all times respect client confidentiality.

IvoryTower · 24-06-2019 02:38PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

He said she dressed slutty, hardly “i want her dead” material.

This 3km from the house business is a nonsense, that park would be a very common spot for youths to hang out there from Ana’s estate. It would be quire common for people to walk close by that building as its on a popular walking route. People acting like they brought her to some far off no mans land that nobody ever visits.

The kid has definitely through his own intention or as a patsy become embroiled in this , but what helps nobody is this rampant speculation about perfectly normal things 13 year old boys do like hang out in parks , like masks , lend people tape and say not so nice things about how teenage girls dress as definitive murderous traits.

I 100% bet you wouldnt find a 13-14 year old lad in the land who hasnt called somebody a weirdo/loner or commented on the way a girl dresses and hasn’t been interested in hanging out with some lad who has brought a samurai sword or some other weapon back from moore street / holidays. Lets not start pretending that every 13 year old boy doing 13 year old boy things is suddenly 80% of the way to being a murderer

The traits on their own might be innocent but put them all together along with the little detail of someone being murdered and it looks a tad different

From what you've read you're not convinced. I have to say I was shocked when I heard boy b was also guilty of murder, but having read the Irish Times article I did change my mind. We have nothing else to go on cause we weren't on the jury so I don't think anyone is going to change our mind at this point unless we hear more details that weren't yet released to the public.

Strazdas · 24-06-2019 02:39PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

He said she dressed slutty, hardly “i want her dead” material.

This 3km from the house business is a nonsense, that park would be a very common spot for youths to hang out there from Ana’s estate. It would be quire common for people to walk close by that building as its on a popular walking route. People acting like they brought her to some far off no mans land that nobody ever visits.

The kid has definitely through his own intention or as a patsy become embroiled in this , but what helps nobody is this rampant speculation about perfectly normal things 13 year old boys do like hang out in parks , like masks , lend people tape and say not so nice things about how teenage girls dress as definitive murderous traits.

I 100% bet you wouldnt find a 13-14 year old lad in the land who hasnt called somebody a weirdo/loner or commented on the way a girl dresses and hasn’t been interested in hanging out with some lad who has brought a samurai sword or some other weapon back from moore street / holidays. Lets not start pretending that every 13 year old boy doing 13 year old boy things is suddenly 80% of the way to being a murderer

What innocent explanation could there be for calling into her house and bringing her to the abandoned house? He didn't like Ana, wasn't friends with her and knew categorically that A didn't like her (A had spoken of killing her recently).

SirGerryAdams · 24-06-2019 02:43PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This 3km from the house business is a nonsense, that park would be a very common spot for youths to hang out there from Ana’s estate. It would be quire common for people to walk close by that building as its on a popular walking route. People acting like they brought her to some far off no mans land that nobody ever visits.

How common would it be to walk 3km to "hang out" with someone you admitted no one liked or should be around.....

Boy B immediately lied when Ana was still a missing person.

If he was innocent why would he lie?

mrjoneill · 24-06-2019 02:45PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

He said she dressed slutty, hardly “i want her dead” material.

This 3km from the house business is a nonsense, that park would be a very common spot for youths to hang out there from Ana’s estate. It would be quire common for people to walk close by that building as its on a popular walking route. People acting like they brought her to some far off no mans land that nobody ever visits.

The kid has definitely through his own intention or as a patsy become embroiled in this , but what helps nobody is this rampant speculation about perfectly normal things 13 year old boys do like hang out in parks , like masks , lend people tape and say not so nice things about how teenage girls dress as definitive murderous traits.

I 100% bet you wouldnt find a 13-14 year old lad in the land who hasnt called somebody a weirdo/loner or commented on the way a girl dresses and hasn’t been interested in hanging out with some lad who has brought a samurai sword or some other weapon back from moore street / holidays. Lets not start pretending that every 13 year old boy doing 13 year old boy things is suddenly 80% of the way to being a murderer

Boy B stated he took Ana 3km so Boy A could tell her he had no interest on her. That simply does not wash. He could have told her in school or he could have got Boy B to tell her at her door. We also get from Boy B that he wanted to see Boy A and Ana kissing and stuff and thats why he hung around the derelict house. Both are totally inconsistent and both Boy A and Boy B wanted no romantic association with her. Boy B claim he was to bring Ana 3km so she could be told she wasn't wanted is total BS, there had to be another purpose and that sticks out that to assault her.

mrjoneill · 24-06-2019 02:52PM

I would put forward another theory that Boy B had a homoerotic interest in Boy A. Boy A was the guy even prior to his teens involved in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu which is an extreme body grappling contact physical activity. According to his father, telling the Park Ranger he was more than capable of looking after himself and the Park Ranger thought he was over 16. He comes across as the alpha male. Boy B did not engage in any sports and the evidence from his father was he was trying to “make a man out of him” trying to get him interested in sports which he showed no interest. I imagine Ana was at that stage so demeaned by her peer group and to both Boy A and Boy B that they had lost any respect for her. They way Boy B demeaned her in Garda interviews would support this with that being deeply embedded. I could see the situation of Boy A expressing an interest of having sex with Ana to Boy B or Boy B suggesting the idea to him on light of Ana expressed romantic interest. I could see them discussing how this to be best done. Boy A had a big collection of what was called obscene porn so his mind would be on the re-enactment of same. I’m sure they both knew from Ana’s earlier encounters with other youths this would not to be voluntary and both had no intention to hang out with her for to build a relationship. Both were also best friends since their childhood. Looking in the internet for derelict building in the area as being part of this conspiracy of wrongdoing. Boy B led Ana on his own for 3km to the derelict house and he made no sexual overtures to her and from the murder scene (he was present in the murder scene till Ana was dead) none of his DNA was found indicating the likelihood he did not participate in any sex acts there. One may well ask what was in this for Boy B. We do know he stayed there till Ana was dead as he was able to indicate where the body was found. Was he to be satisfied with seeing Boy A raping and sexually abusing Ana? Boy A went fully equipped for a serious assault so one can rule out the consensual intentions and the choosing a remote secluded location adds to the deviousness. I believe Boy B never believing it would turn into a gruesome murder scene or gave it that consideration. He stated he wanted to see Boy A “making out” with Ana but this is a lie as he stated Boy B wanted to tell her he had no interest in her. They could have “made out” in the street corner away from Ana’s home or the park but the fact are she was lured to a secluded derelict house had much more sinister overtones to it. After the murder Boy B told a friend that Boy A was snaking on him, this was twisted by his defense council that Boy B had misled him in bringing Ana to the location. I did not read that into it but rather that Boy A had left him exposed or was “grassing” on him to put the blame on him alone. It appeared at that time Boy B was the only person under focus as he had enticed her from her home. I could well see the scenario that Boy B “got off” on this seeing Boy A involved in sexual assault or raping Ana and this was sufficient incentive for his participation. I could also see him guarding the door against the escape of Ana from the house or holding Ana while Boy B laid into her. Blood spatter indicates at one stage Ana was severely beaten while she was standing and we can presume this was with a weapon and there is a possibility she may have escaped during this if she was not inhibited by Boy B. Boy B was not a foolish guy in how he handled questioning and only for external evidence to correct his misleading he would have led his inquisitors all over the place. Boy B had to get an awful lot out of it and I believe this was in sexual voyeurism which he knew would arise by facilitating the sexual assault by Boy A on Ana. Boy B has an awful lot to hide since he did so much to obfuscation and lying during questioning.

volchitsa · 24-06-2019 02:53PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

He said she dressed slutty, hardly “i want her dead” material.

This 3km from the house business is a nonsense, that park would be a very common spot for youths to hang out there from Ana’s estate. It would be quire common for people to walk close by that building as its on a popular walking route. People acting like they brought her to some far off no mans land that nobody ever visits.

The kid has definitely through his own intention or as a patsy become embroiled in this , but what helps nobody is this rampant speculation about perfectly normal things 13 year old boys do like hang out in parks , like masks , lend people tape and say not so nice things about how teenage girls dress as definitive murderous traits.

I 100% bet you wouldnt find a 13-14 year old lad in the land who hasnt called somebody a weirdo/loner or commented on the way a girl dresses and hasn’t been interested in hanging out with some lad who has brought a samurai sword or some other weapon back from moore street / holidays. Lets not start pretending that every 13 year old boy doing 13 year old boy things is suddenly 80% of the way to being a murderer

You talk about 13 year old boy things, but not many of them do that in a context of the girl in question having been brutally murdered.

I think that, just like the bullies in her class probably feel terrible in hindsight, for a normal 13 year old, most of that stuff would have stopped the minute they learned she'd been found dead. Instead this lad seemed perfectly happy to describe her as slutty etc, he showed no remorse about having had that attitude at the time. That's the difference.

iamwhoiam · 24-06-2019 02:55PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

He said she dressed slutty, hardly “i want her dead” material.

This 3km from the house business is a nonsense, that park would be a very common spot for youths to hang out there from Ana’s estate. It would be quire common for people to walk close by that building as its on a popular walking route. People acting like they brought her to some far off no mans land that nobody ever visits.
rer

I walk in that park , I bring small kids to the playground , we park near the rangers office . I pass the tragic house three times weekly
The older kids hang out around the BMX track or on the playing pitches or along the river . I have never once seen them around the house or in the fields surrounding the house . They sit under trees or on grass not in manky , cold , dark houses
A and B went off the popular path and over a field and took Ana way off the course the teens hang around .

Eric Cartman · 24-06-2019 02:55PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

Boy B stated he took Ana 3km so Boy A could tell her he had no interest on her. That simply does not wash. He could have told her in school or he could have got Boy B to tell her at her door. We also get from Boy B that he wanted to see Boy A and Ana kissing and stuff and thats why he hung around the derelict house. Both are totally inconsistent and both Boy A and Boy B wanted no romantic association with her. Boy B claim he was to bring Ana 3km so she could be told she wasn't wanted is total BS, there had to be another purpose and that sticks out that to assault her.

Would probably be the most common area in <SNIP> for youths to go hang out, go for a chat, drink cans etc.. , if you were from here you’d realise its just media sensationalism on this element of it.

At 13 years old in secondary school , status is everything , if the ‘weird girl’ being in to you and it heing known about would be a cause of frustration, if you wanted to sort it out you sure as hell wouldnt be doing it in school or where people might get the idea youre together.

If everyone really thinks back to when they were 13, especially lads here , if your mate came up to you and said ‘here will you go get yer one so i can tell her to stop telling people she likes me ‘ and asked to meet in the local spot that youths go to in your respective town (distance irrelevant) , you probably wouldnt think twice about it as a 13 year old. Its stupid now but at 13 that kind of thing is important.

facehugger99 · 24-06-2019 02:56PM

Seems rather superfluous to be trying the case again without any of the witnesses, evidence or legal knowledge.

volchitsa · 24-06-2019 02:58PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Would probably be the most common area in <SNIP> for youths to go hang out, go for a chat, drink cans etc.. , if you were from here you’d realise its just media sensationalism on this element of it.

If that is so, how come the body took several days to be found?
That doesn't sound like a place that lots of people hung out at.

EDIT: I've just seen the post by Iamwhoiam which confirms my scepticism. The notion that they would be searching for her for days without having thought to search any of the known teenage haunts is crazy, TBH.

ohnonotgmail · 24-06-2019 02:58PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Would probably be the most common area in <SNIP> for youths to go hang out, go for a chat, drink cans etc.. , if you were from here you’d realise its just media sensationalism on this element of it.

At 13 years old in secondary school , status is everything , if the ‘weird girl’ being in to you and it heing known about would be a cause of frustration, if you wanted to sort it out you sure as hell wouldnt be doing it in school or where people might get the idea youre together.

If everyone really thinks back to when they were 13, especially lads here , if your mate came up to you and said ‘here will you go get yer one so i can tell her to stop telling people she likes me ‘ and asked to meet in the local spot that youths go to in your respective town (distance irrelevant) , you probably wouldnt think twice about it as a 13 year old. Its stupid now but at 13 that kind of thing is important.

Read the post before yours.

iamwhoiam · 24-06-2019 03:00PM

volchitsa wrote: »

If that is so, how come the body took several days to be found?
That doesn't sound like a place that lots of people hung out at.

It isn’t , they don’t . Its off the beaten track and not the teens usual spot at all .

dudara · 24-06-2019 03:17PM

volchitsa wrote: »

EDIT: I've just seen the post by Iamwhoiam which confirms my scepticism. The notion that they would be searching for her for days without having thought to search any of the known teenage haunts is crazy, TBH.

That is one thought that went through my head when I read the IT article. If the house was a known teenage haunt, surely it would make sense to go there relatively quickly?

The only argument that I can come up with is that searches are done in a structured way with patterns and grids, so that evidence can be tracked and traced. Therefore they would get to the house when the search got that far.

That, or the house wasn’t really that well known at all.

tayto lover · 24-06-2019 03:22PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Would probably be the most common area in <SNIP> for youths to go hang out, go for a chat, drink cans etc.. , if you were from here you’d realise its just media sensationalism on this element of it.

At 13 years old in secondary school , status is everything , if the ‘weird girl’ being in to you and it heing known about would be a cause of frustration, if you wanted to sort it out you sure as hell wouldnt be doing it in school or where people might get the idea youre together.

If everyone really thinks back to when they were 13, especially lads here , if your mate came up to you and said ‘here will you go get yer one so i can tell her to stop telling people she likes me ‘ and asked to meet in the local spot that youths go to in your respective town (distance irrelevant) , you probably wouldnt think twice about it as a 13 year old. Its stupid now but at 13 that kind of thing is important.

Really important.
So why have your bag with your murder kit there?
Your big stick with nails, your tape and your mask to hide behind?

Yeah. All normal kit for a 13 year old I’m sure.

threeball · 24-06-2019 03:25PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Would probably be the most common area in <SNIP> for youths to go hang out, go for a chat, drink cans etc.. , if you were from here you’d realise its just media sensationalism on this element of it.

At 13 years old in secondary school , status is everything , if the ‘weird girl’ being in to you and it heing known about would be a cause of frustration, if you wanted to sort it out you sure as hell wouldnt be doing it in school or where people might get the idea youre together.

If everyone really thinks back to when they were 13, especially lads here , if your mate came up to you and said ‘here will you go get yer one so i can tell her to stop telling people she likes me ‘ and asked to meet in the local spot that youths go to in your respective town (distance irrelevant) , you probably wouldnt think twice about it as a 13 year old. Its stupid now but at 13 that kind of thing is important.

Are you Boy B's auld fella? That ship has sailed

Kidchameleon · 24-06-2019 03:28PM

threeball wrote: »

Are you Boy B's auld fella? That ship has sailed

Have a bit of respect for his dad, how would you feel if people joked about Patrick Kreigel?

Eric Cartman · 24-06-2019 03:31PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Really important.
So why have your bag with your murder kit there?
Your big stick with nails, your tape and your mask to hide behind?

Yeah. All normal kit for a 13 year old I’m sure.

Thats all boy A who every single person on the planet accepts is intentionally guilty of murder. There is nothing normal or acceptable about what that kid did at all and nobody is making any odds with the quite correct conviction that he received.

Collie D · 24-06-2019 03:32PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Have a bit of respect for his dad, how would you feel if people joked about Patrick Kreigel?

I’m not part of the group who believes in publicly hounding the family or treating them like criminals because of their son but his actions after the verdict barely merit “respect” and certainly not in comparison to the Kriegel family who have carried themselves with great dignity during an ordeal and time for them I can only imagine.

LiamoSail · 24-06-2019 03:44PM

Neither Boy A or Boy B have ever told the truth about what happened. If either set of parents had any decency, they'd have got the truth out of them regardless of what the legal advice was.

LiamoSail · 24-06-2019 03:48PM

Reading the discussion of whether Boy B is guilty of murder, on top of the evidence against him and his seeming indifference following her going missing, I'd speculate that his demeanour in interview betrayed him, hence why the court was shown the video of his interview rather than just the transcript.

24-06-2019 03:55PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Have a bit of respect for his dad, how would you feel if people joked about Patrick Kreigel?

Respect is key and one way to show it is to use the very widely available names of the victim and her family.

The victim's name was Ana, short for Anastasia.
Her father's name is Patric.
Their family name is Kriegel.

tayto lover · 24-06-2019 03:56PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats all boy A who every single person on the planet accepts is intentionally guilty of murder. There is nothing normal or acceptable about what that kid did at all and nobody is making any odds with the quite correct conviction that he received.

Good.
Now Boy B.

Was told Boy A wanted to murder Ana.

* supplied the tape which was found around her neck.
* called for a girl he didn’t like and had little previous dealings with.
* takes Ana 3 km to meet her murderer, could have met outside her home, school or anywhere convenient.
* lies continually about what occurred, 9 changes of story.
* watches the police search for Ana, says nothing.
* knew the final position in the room of Ana’s body despite saying he had left the scene earlier. Very important.
* never, even up to now, has told the truth.
* still continued to sully her name
* and “the look” between both boys when one had deviated from the agreed script. The detectives knew then they were BOTH involved.

Guilty unanimously in the eyes of the jury. Not one member thought he was innocent. Very telling.

Suckit · 24-06-2019 03:59PM

Boy B was also very calm at the door the same evening when the Gardaí showed up. Calm enough that they didn't suspect anything.
Also weird was that Boy A described them as best friends, whereas Boy B claimed he was a little more than an acquaintance.

splinter65 · 24-06-2019 04:02PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

He said she dressed slutty, hardly “i want her dead” material.

This 3km from the house business is a nonsense, that park would be a very common spot for youths to hang out there from Ana’s estate. It would be quire common for people to walk close by that building as its on a popular walking route. People acting like they brought her to some far off no mans land that nobody ever visits.

The kid has definitely through his own intention or as a patsy become embroiled in this , but what helps nobody is this rampant speculation about perfectly normal things 13 year old boys do like hang out in parks , like masks , lend people tape and say not so nice things about how teenage girls dress as definitive murderous traits.

I 100% bet you wouldnt find a 13-14 year old lad in the land who hasnt called somebody a weirdo/loner or commented on the way a girl dresses and hasn’t been interested in hanging out with some lad who has brought a samurai sword or some other weapon back from moore street / holidays. Lets not start pretending that every 13 year old boy doing 13 year old boy things is suddenly 80% of the way to being a murderer

We’re not talking about a gang of boys sitting on a wall chatting.
He was in a Garda station. Accompanied by his mother and a solicitor. Being interviewed regarding the brutal murder and sexual assault of a 13 year old girl. He was the last person in the company of this girl.
And he refers to this dead child as slutty and uses other derogatory terms to describe her. He's apparently not concerned about the circumstances he finds himself in. He knows she’s dead, murdered. He actually saw her being murdered. He brought her to be murdered.
And you think referring to her in a derogatory manner was normal?

SirGerryAdams · 24-06-2019 04:04PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Good.
Now Boy B.

Was told Boy A wanted to murder Ana.

* supplied the tape which was found around her neck.
* called for a girl he didn’t like and had little previous dealings with.
* takes Ana 3 km to meet her murderer, could have met outside her home, school or anywhere convenient.
* lies continually about what occurred, 9 changes of story.
* watches the police search for Ana, says nothing.
* knew the final position in the room of Ana’s body despite saying he had left the scene earlier. Very important.
* never, even up to now, has told the truth.
* still continued to sully her name

Guilty unanimously in the eyes of the jury. Not one member thought he was innocent. Very telling.

You also have to take into account Boy A asking Boy B to bring her there.

Boy A clearly and obviously planned to attack her.

Boy A was clever enough to not be seen to be the one bringing her to the house, so he was surely clever enough not to ask a completely innocent boy to bring her there where he would risk Boy B seeing his attack and then revealing all to his parents right away!

I do wonder if it was a sex attack gone wrong....maybe Boy A completely lost it when Ana hurt him.

mrjoneill · 24-06-2019 04:05PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Would probably be the most common area in <SNIP> for youths to go hang out, go for a chat, drink cans etc.. , if you were from here you’d realise its just media sensationalism on this element of it.

At 13 years old in secondary school , status is everything , if the ‘weird girl’ being in to you and it heing known about would be a cause of frustration, if you wanted to sort it out you sure as hell wouldnt be doing it in school or where people might get the idea youre together.

If everyone really thinks back to when they were 13, especially lads here , if your mate came up to you and said ‘here will you go get yer one so i can tell her to stop telling people she likes me ‘ and asked to meet in the local spot that youths go to in your respective town (distance irrelevant) , you probably wouldnt think twice about it as a 13 year old. Its stupid now but at 13 that kind of thing is important.

I would imagine it increases a teenager "street cred" to have someone infatuated by them. Ana was a very attractive girl as testified by those older boys who propositioned her for sex. Ana was not killed because she got infatuated with someone that could not handle the "embarrassment". Boy A could have told her at any time he wasn't interested. As for Boy B he could have passed on his friends wishes any time, he did not have to bring her 3km to an isolated abandoned house to do it. He knew full well Boy A attitude towards her so an innocent explanation just doesn't run. Thinking back to when I was 13 it definitely was never in my mind to inflict or standby while such an appalling category of injuries was caused to someone as listed in the autopsy
https://www.thejournal.ie/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-day-8-4626078-May2019/

And both Boy A and Boy B continued to function without a problem only the blame that was being placed on them after it. Both are very sick teenagers.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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