Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

23-06-2019 11:56AM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

Hopefully they will both live to ripe old ages. Plenty of time for them to reflect on their actions.

gozunda · 23-06-2019 12:07PM

volchitsa wrote: »

My god her poor parents - my heart is breaking looking st those pictures so what must it be like for them? It's unbearable to even think about it.

Such a sweet, gorgeous girl, and while I know the other teens who bullied her weren't responsible for her murdered - I'm sure they couldn't even have imagined it, I can't help thinking that her isolation was very much part of why she was so vulnerable to them.

Quite apart from the issues with those two boys, I think there's something terribly wrong with our whole culture that we seem to just accept this sort of bullying as inevitable and even natural.

I really do hope that every child or teenager who was involved in bullying Ana hangs their head in shame and perhaps from this tragedy hopefully begin to understand the effects of bullying and social isolation. Also those others who may not have been involved but who knew but who did nothing to intervene or put a stop to the deliberate and systematic bullying.

And the same of all of us who learn of Ana's story. Bullying destroys peoples health and their lives. In this case I believe it lead to murder.

23-06-2019 12:08PM

Larsso30 wrote: »

If memory serves me right

Thompson was seen as the driving force behind the crime, the more evil of the two if you prefer, awful family home etc.

Venables seen as the follower, from the more stable family home. Softer almost

History has shown since their release that their behaviour is contrary to this, Thompson never been in trouble thay we are aware of
Venables the one who has been convicted multiple times for depraved crimes.

I was chatting recently about this very thing. Its possible that the reason Thompson went on to live a fairly quiet life is because he is a psychopath ie without conscience. Venables on the other hand was destroyed by what he did and will never live a 'normal' life.

tuxy · 23-06-2019 12:17PM

shamrock55 wrote: »

It's times like this I really wish this country had the death sentence, just rid society once and for all of this evil scumb and save tax payers to boot

How about a compromise? Sharia law for some, miniature Irish flags for others?

shamrock55 · 23-06-2019 12:27PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

The thing is they don't deserve rehabilitation or to contribute, they've contributed quite enough for one lifetime, you do that at 13 then your well beyond help

briany · 23-06-2019 12:45PM

I fully concur with the prevailing sentiment on this thread that the killing of Ana Kriegel was a crime of the highest brutality and senselessness and that the perpetrators should be punished to the full extent of the law. Not too much more I can add, there.

What I have been wondering, as a slight aside to the case, is how exactly the two boys, particularly Boy A, planned to get away with this horrible murder. What was their thinking regarding the aftermath?

A) Being arrested, charged and convicted did not factor into their plans. They certainly didn't treat these events as a matter of course. They didn't even appear to make much of an attempt to get their stories straight.

Per Boy B's statements to Gardaí, it appears that the attack and target were being planned at least a month in advance, so that rules out the idea of it being a prank gone wrong or a moment of madness.

I know that as well as being seriously morally deficient, they were also 13 and can't be expected to have much common sense, but I'd like to think that at 13, I'd have had an awareness of things like fingerprints and the fact that forensics can be used to link a criminal to the crime. Perhaps 13 year olds these days are even more naive than I think, or maybe these two boys, or one boy, had a monumental arrogance about the plan.

Skyknight · 23-06-2019 12:50PM

tuxy wrote: »

How about a compromise? Sharia law for some, miniature Irish flags for others?

I think what shamrock55 is suggesting is that the punishment should fit the crime... Spare the rod, and spoil the child. In other words they should be denied what that they have denied their victim.

gozunda · 23-06-2019 12:55PM

briany wrote: »

I fully concur with the prevailing sentiment on this thread that the killing of Ana Kriegel was a crime of the highest brutality and senselessness and that the perpetrators should be punished to the full extent of the law. Not too much more I can add, there.

What I have been wondering, as a slight aside to the case, is how exactly the two boys, particularly Boy A, planned to get away with this horrible murder. What was their thinking regarding the aftermath?

A) Being arrested, charged and convicted did not factor into their plans. They certainly didn't treat these events as a matter of course. They didn't even appear to make much of an attempt to get their stories straight.

Per Boy B's statements to Gardaí, it appears that the attack and target were being planned at least a month in advance, so that rules out the idea of it being a prank gone wrong or a moment of madness.

I know that as well as being seriously morally deficient, they were also 13 and can't be expected to have much common sense, but I'd like to think that at 13, I'd have had an awareness of things like fingerprints and the fact that forensics can be used to link a criminal to the crime. Perhaps 13 year olds these days are even more naive than I think, or maybe these two boys, or one boy, had a monumental arrogance about the plan.

I get the sense that the boys really thought their lies would be believed - that Ana was abducted / attacked in the park. Now maybe it is the case that both teenagers were used to getting away with telling lies to their parents and being believed and this set them up to think others would do the same.

What they didn't take into account that their victim would fight back and inflict injuries on one of the two boys and that the Gardai and others would see through the bull****e they had connected by way of an explanation as to what happened..

It's unfortunate that despite the evidence and testimony gathered by the gardai and the deliberations of the court - at least one of the boys parents still refuse to believe that their little angel could do anything of the kind.

briany · 23-06-2019 12:57PM

Skyknight wrote: »

I think what shamrock55 is suggesting is that the punishment should fit the crime... Spare the rod, and spoil the child. In other words they should be denied what that they have denied their victim.

I'd be more anti-death penalty these days, but if they get to Oberstown or wherever they're going, one of their fellow inmates might oblige on that front, or perhaps they'll even oblige themselves, should life there be too stressful.

Collie D · 23-06-2019 01:09PM

briany wrote: »

I'd be more anti-death penalty these days, but if they get to Oberstown or wherever they're going, one of their fellow inmates might oblige on that front, or perhaps they'll even oblige themselves, should life there be too stressful.

Do you really want to live in a society where other convicted criminals act as our moral compass and get to decide punishments?

briany · 23-06-2019 01:16PM

Collie D wrote: »

Do you really want to live in a society where other convicted criminals act as our moral compass and get to decide punishments?

Not really, but I was saying that the quoted poster's wish might come true, just not via direct means of the state. I would imagine that if these boys become identifiable in the institution(s) in which they're held, they are going to end up having something of a target on their back.

washman3 · 23-06-2019 01:16PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

Totally mesmerised when I read comments like this. Angry even.
For anyone to believe that this level of pure evil can be 'helped' or rehabilitated is mind boggling.
As for 'making every resource we have available to them' there are many,many far more deserving causes that these resources should be directed to.
I for one am horrified that even a single cent of my tax will be spent on these pair of oxygen wasters. I firmly believe that they will never contribute anything back to society and no time or money should be spent on trying to do so. So far they are totally remorseless and I believe they always will be.
I often wonder if it's attitudes like yours that causes evil creatures to exist in the first place.
Have you mentioned anywhere any consideration for Ana's family.?
They should be priority now, not these evil scum.

mrjoneill · 23-06-2019 01:18PM

shesty wrote: »

In the midst of all the posts postulating about how she was strangled, or hit or dragged, I think we should all look at these photos.Published today by the Kriegel family

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/from-beaming-pink-princess-to-shy-teen-anas-life-in-pictures-38244392.html

She was very beautiful.Growing up to be a stunning girl.Ironically, probably exactly the type of girl that those boys would have chased after in years to come....and hopefully been turned down by.What is wrong with teenagers that they are so afraid of anything different to themselves??

Your heart would break looking at those.Forget those two little.....

Remember her.

There was never an issue of how stunning Ana was, teenagers 15-16 were constantly accosting her to have sex with. That does not happen to the unattractive girl but what was different here is teenagers knew she was naive and hoped this would be sufficient for them to engage in sex with her. Ana went in all her naivety to meet Boy A believing she would have some kissing with him and make friends with him. I don't believe any other girl of that peer group would have gone along with Boy B enticing. I don't believe teenage boys do go around propositioning their peer group to have sex with them out of the blue. I would believe Boy A peers looked on him as the alpha male of the group. Boy B stated he was afraid of him. The park ranger though he was over 16, his father stated to the park ranger he was more than capable of looking after himself.

Suckit · 23-06-2019 01:22PM

gozunda wrote: »

at least one of the boys parents still refuse to believe that their little angel could do anything of the kind.

That same parent seems to be the only of all the parents who distanced himself as much as possible from anything to do with the case, from as early on as when Ana was just deemed missing.

Horrible all around, but Ana's parents must have known from the start that the little scrotes had done something when she was missing. I doubt they ever suspected something as heinous.

I don't believe that either can be rehabilitated. Not for something like this.
They had planned it for quite some time in advance.
They both seem to be evil little f**kers in their own way.

Suckit · 23-06-2019 01:24PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

There was never an issue of how stunning Ana was, teenagers 15-16 were constantly accosting her to have sex with. That does not happen to the unattractive girl but what was different here is teenagers knew she was naive and hoped this would be sufficient for them to engage in sex with her. Ana went in all her naivety to meet Boy A believing she would have some kissing with him and make friends with him. I don't believe any other girl of that peer group would have gone along with Boy B enticing. I don't believe teenage boys do go around propositioning their peer group to have sex with them out of the blue. I would believe Boy A peers looked on him as the alpha male of the group. Boy B stated he was afraid of him. The park ranger though he was over 16, his father stated to the park ranger he was more than capable of looking after himself.

I don't believe Boy B was afraid of Boy A.

abff · 23-06-2019 01:27PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

I find the emphasising of the word children very inappropriate as it somehow humanises these evil creatures and implies a level of innocence that is clearly not present.

MrFresh · 23-06-2019 01:31PM

shamrock55 wrote: »

The thing is they don't deserve rehabilitation or to contribute, they've contributed quite enough for one lifetime, you do that at 13 then your well beyond help

That may be so. But like it or not they will be out early in their lives, probably in their twenties. And while they may not deserve rehabilitation, we'll all be better off if they get it.

briany · 23-06-2019 01:48PM

MrFresh wrote: »

That may be so. But like it or not they will be out early in their lives, probably in their twenties. And while they may not deserve rehabilitation, we'll all be better off if they get it.

That is a concern. If they get out, you could be looking at one, if not two boys, with both an abnormal psychology and possibly physically hardened by their experiences in the juvenile and adult systems.

Since execution is no longer on the books, it's really a choice between locking them up and throwing away the key, or making damn sure that they are no longer a danger when they are released. Though it might sound a bit bleeding heart, the latter must involve some sort of rehabilitative efforts.

mrjoneill · 23-06-2019 01:55PM

briany wrote: »

I fully concur with the prevailing sentiment on this thread that the killing of Ana Kriegel was a crime of the highest brutality and senselessness and that the perpetrators should be punished to the full extent of the law. Not too much more I can add, there.

What I have been wondering, as a slight aside to the case, is how exactly the two boys, particularly Boy A, planned to get away with this horrible murder. What was their thinking regarding the aftermath?

A) Being arrested, charged and convicted did not factor into their plans. They certainly didn't treat these events as a matter of course. They didn't even appear to make much of an attempt to get their stories straight.

Per Boy B's statements to Gardaí, it appears that the attack and target were being planned at least a month in advance, so that rules out the idea of it being a prank gone wrong or a moment of madness.

I know that as well as being seriously morally deficient, they were also 13 and can't be expected to have much common sense, but I'd like to think that at 13, I'd have had an awareness of things like fingerprints and the fact that forensics can be used to link a criminal to the crime. Perhaps 13 year olds these days are even more naive than I think, or maybe these two boys, or one boy, had a monumental arrogance about the plan.

When teenagers engage in criminal activity they seldom think beyond it. Boy A wore gloves during the assault, we can presume it was to avoid his prints being found. We don't know about Boy B or what he carried in the rucksack that he deliberately took to the scene from his home. Boy A never penciled in being inured in the process. Boy A was never going to come clean on his involvement and it was forensics which convicted him. When he handed over his boots it was not visible to the naked eye Ana bloodstains on them, his other clothes were washed. Boy A mother asked the gardai taking away his boots that they be returned she was so confident that her little boy had nothing to do with Ana's disappearance. The boots were expensive Timberland. Boy B only gave a partial admittance of what took place after 2 periods of questioning failing in the first 2 days of questioning after much obfuscation and misleading. He only went so far as other evidence placed him in the frame. Boy A had his attack gear gathered up and hidden in his wardrobe where he believed it was safe. He did not pencil in his DNA being found especially semen found on Ana or her torn clothing or Ana blood on his attack gear because it was not visible. They may not have know of DNA or thought there were not contaminated.

As for common sense a 2yr old is aware its wrong to hit someone. There is no doubt they knew what they were doing was wrong and very wrong with the length of the denials they did.

mrjoneill · 23-06-2019 02:05PM

Suckit wrote: »

I don't believe Boy B was afraid of Boy A.

He stated it, Boy A was the guy doing the Brazilian judo and the Park ranger stated he though he was 16 of older. Boys A father stated he was more than capable of looking after himself. What I understand of Boy B he did not engaged in any sports but moped around looking at cartoons on his laptop and had no external interest. His father stated he was trying to make a man out of him to get him interested in sports.

darlett · 23-06-2019 02:12PM

abff wrote: »

I find the emphasising of the word children very inappropriate as it somehow humanises these evil creatures and implies a level of innocence that is clearly not present.

Absolutely. Implies that A and B are to be found on any other day playing with dolls and puppies or maybe out there playing tig or catch. These pair of lads could very likely reoffend and murder another child. I would be very content if my overly high taxes contribute to securing them in a cell until they pass away, whenever the hell that is. I would personally pop into a hardware store and but a short heavy chain for their necks.
I say this not only from a point of view of hatred, but also from love, that a heinous punishment befitting a heinous crime might still similar thoughts in the next potential perpetrators mind when they are planning to torture and murder an innocent child or adult.

shamrock55 · 23-06-2019 02:14PM

briany wrote: »

I'd be more anti-death penalty these days, but if they get to Oberstown or wherever they're going, one of their fellow inmates might oblige on that front, or perhaps they'll even oblige themselves, should life there be too stressful.

So as a country we should just let other inmates or even themselves to do the deed, that would be OK then

pablo128 · 23-06-2019 02:17PM

shamrock55 wrote: »

So as a country we should just let other inmates or even themselves to do the deed, that would be OK then

No.

But I personally wouldn't be complaining if another inmate took it upon himself to dish out a severe beating or even worse.

And realistically the only thing that could prevent it is every prisoner in Oberstown on 24 hour lockup, which isn't going to happen.

take everything · 23-06-2019 02:20PM

I posted before about wishing these scumbags be hounded for the rest of their lives.
Then reflected on it a few days later thinking that was harsh.

I just read some of the details of how they hit her with the edge of a concrete block above.

So yeah **** them. Hopefully they don't have a days peace.

And I have grave reservations (and anyone reasonable should imho) about them retaining anonymity given that they will just seamlessly integrate into society again (ha!) and, say, your daughter could end up marrying and having kids with these pieces of **** in ten/twenty years time.

briany · 23-06-2019 02:21PM

shamrock55 wrote: »

So as a country we should just let other inmates or even themselves to do the deed, that would be OK then

No, I'm just saying that's what could happen.

MrFresh · 23-06-2019 02:23PM

briany wrote: »

That is a concern. If they get out, you could be looking at one, if not two boys, with both an abnormal psychology and possibly physically hardened by their experiences in the juvenile and adult systems.

Since execution is no longer on the books, it's really a choice between locking them up and throwing away the key, or making damn sure that they are no longer a danger when they are released. Though it might sound a bit bleeding heart, the latter must involve some sort of rehabilitative efforts.

Locking them up and throwing away the key isn't an option though.

splinter65 · 23-06-2019 02:25PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

Helped? You have no empathy or sympathy for the bereaved parents of the dead girl. It’s a bit unnerving. They should punished, first of all,for taking the life of another child, in the full knowledge that what they were doing was wrong, They couldn’t have done anything any more evil. Ana deserves justice for this and hopefully, she’ll get it.
How?
They need to be segregated away from other people for a long time in case they feel the urge to kill again.
In this time,they need to be rebooted so that they know what is right and what is wrong. This, to me, will take at least 15 years.

FFred · 23-06-2019 02:28PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

So, hypothetically, you would be more than happy if one of these rehabilitated ‘persons’ met and formed a relationship with a female from your family then?

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 23-06-2019 02:42PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

While I don’t support the death penalty, that claim is ludicrous.

briany · 23-06-2019 02:42PM

MrFresh wrote: »

Locking them up and throwing away the key isn't an option though.

Not in the literal sense, no, but maybe one or both of them could be repeatedly deemed unfit to reenter society as their case is reviewed down the line.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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