Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Suckit · 22-06-2019 07:51PM

I don't believe that both of these boys will be out by their 20's. One of them maybe. But not both, and not if they are dependant on a psychologists report, and if the psychologist making the report is any good.
I also don't believe Boy A is any less intelligent, he just may have had the want and willingness to go through with the action of events.
Boy B may have been more willing to watch.
I think they both may have been quite clever.
Boy A was stupid in the sense that he had his DNA all over the scene, but he may have been in some sort of blood lust psychotic episode. But nothing to tell us he was any less intelligent than Boy B. In fact Boy A may have orchestrated the whole thing, we have no idea.
I just don't believe for a single second that Boy B was leading her there without some sort of horrible plan that he knew about. I would be happy to see both locked away until their senior years.

Ken. · 22-06-2019 07:59PM

Mod-Don't quote or call out people that can't reply. Its unfair.

dudara · 22-06-2019 08:09PM

The Specialist warned for uncivil language. Please stay civil to others.

dudara

Dht · 22-06-2019 09:22PM

I have a couple of thoughts:
I think the gardai did incredible work, in particular the case coming to trial within 12 months.
Boy A when he appeared in court 10 days later was seen to be still limping very badly.. clearly Ana fought back very strongly....
This being the case and she was a tall strong girl .. superb swimmer .. I don’t believe Boy A acted alone. I don’t think it was physically possible for him to do all he did by himself.
A text 9 months ago from Boy A to Boy B indicated he wanted to kill her. Boy B brought her to the derelict house.
How convenient for Boy B no forensics.. clothes phone etc
Boy B if he had nothing to hide would imo opened up very quickly given the abs seriousness of the situation.. 14 yo dead, he called for her etc
The attack was absolutely frenzied.. 50 separate injuries.. to the SP 40 minutes to describe.. that to me suggests there was massive anger & vitriol behind the attack. I have heard rumours of a perceived grudge.
Ana her family & the parents of the boys have my sincere sympathies.

gozunda · 22-06-2019 09:43PM

Dht wrote: »

I have a couple of thoughts:
I think the gardai did incredible work, in particular the case coming to trial within 12 months.
Boy A when he appeared in court 10 days later was seen to be still limping very badly.. clearly Ana fought back very strongly....
This being the case and she was a tall strong girl .. superb swimmer .. I don’t believe Boy A acted alone. I don’t think it was physically possible for him to do all he did by himself.
A text 9 months ago from Boy A to Boy B indicated he wanted to kill her. Boy B brought her to the derelict house.
How convenient for Boy B no forensics.. clothes phone etc
Boy B if he had nothing to hide would imo opened up very quickly given the abs seriousness of the situation.. 14 yo dead, he called for her etc
The attack was absolutely frenzied.. 50 separate injuries.. to the SP 40 minutes to describe.. that to me suggests there was massive anger & vitriol behind the attack. I have heard rumours of a perceived grudge.
Ana her family & the parents of the boys have my sincere sympathies.

I would agree with most of your thoughts there but in the name of god what type of 'grudge' would elicit such an evil and frankly psychopathic attack on a young girl?

Lucuma · 22-06-2019 09:51PM

Not standing up for him obviously! But a few have said Boy B never cried or showed remorse. I think he did cry during at least 1 interview with the guards. We don't know if either boy cried during the trial.
I think we safely assume they were both crying at the verdict
As I said before I think B could be rehabilitated
Although his father would want to seriously cop on to help that happen though. After all his father is one of his main role models and if he's pumping his head full of ideas that he's innocent + has been wronged that's going to hinder any rehabilitation I'd imagine.
I wouldn't hold out much hope for A though

tayto lover · 22-06-2019 09:56PM

Lucuma wrote: »

Not standing up for him obviously! But a few have said Boy B never cried or showed remorse. I think he did cry during at least 1 interview with the guards. We don't know if either boy cried during the trial.
I think we safely assume they were both crying at the verdict
As I said before I think B could be rehabilitated
Although his father would want to seriously cop on to help that happen though. After all his father is one of his main role models and if he's pumping his head full of ideas that he's innocent + has been wronged that's going to hinder any rehabilitation I'd imagine.
I wouldn't hold out much hope for A though

Boy B ran Ana down repeatedly during his interviews and I have no hope for him. He’s just as evil as A and more cunning.
His father seemingly didn’t attend any of his interviews. I thought that very odd.

AngeloArgue · 22-06-2019 10:26PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Psychologists believe any auld Shyte.

Yes, to some degree.
In Psychology and Psychiatry, clinicians deal with what they have.
And often what they have is based solely on an interview with the person being assessed.
They are trained to take what people say at face value.

Dht · 22-06-2019 10:26PM

iAna was an innocent victim. the attack abs angry and frenzied.. psychopaths have no empathy ..sympathetic feelings .. they are described as “cold” .. it doesn’t neccessarily make them killers. but watching porn.. having over 2000 pornographic images (boy As phone) yes desensitizes to a degree but does this by itself turn you into a killer? The absolute rage demonstrated is off the scale . Nothing excuses what happened that day... 40 minutes after Boy B arrived at her house Ana was dead.. it was a planned execution. Nothing that happened that day could be described as “normal behavior” ....a 13 yo may “act out “ but what they did that day ... there is no explanation. A lot of the discussion has taken the form of how involved was Boy B.... I suppose where I’m coming from ... & I can’t get this out of my head is “WHY” ???? If I were Ana’s parent that is the qn I would want answered ... why did you do this to my darling girl ... is watching porn... having psychopathic traits the reason? Because if we don’t find the “why” .. this might happen again... what needs to change to try & ensure it doesn’t. In a few weeks ppl will move on..I just think we need to try and find out how & why 2 13 yo boys became killers.

SirGerryAdams · 22-06-2019 10:37PM

He was still limping about a week after alright which makes me think how Ana would have been able to fight back if she was attacked the minute she wentinto the room.

I would imaging it would have been difficult to kick and punch if she was getting hit in the face with a stick....

the other odd thing is the semen on the top....I would have thought the clothes would have been ripped off and semen deposited then so how would it have ended up on the top? Unless it was used to wipe away from Boy A himself..

gozunda · 22-06-2019 11:21PM

Adding a link for the Primetime Programme

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2019/0621/1056750-watch-ana-kriegel-trial/

Apologies if it has already been posted ...

Sardonicat · 22-06-2019 11:27PM

MrFresh wrote: »

I think it was the other way around. Venables cried every day of the trial and asked that the little boy's mother be told he was sorry.

He may well have cried during the trial. I'm not referring to his behaviour at trial. I was responding to a poster who aked if the therapy the boys received in detention significantly different given their different post release outcomed. During their time in detention Venables refused to ever discuss the murder. I'm baffled that he could have been recommended for release when his understanding of the event and his level of remorse could never be assessed.

Thompson did a great deal of work with the therapists . Is reportedly deeply remorseful and as posted above, struggles with the fact that his monstrous crime lead to him getting a stable environment, intensive therapy and an education.

Like I said before, not withstanding his progress and remorse I still feel he should have served time in an adult prison. He did brutally murder a toddler. I don't think Venables should have been released at all for the reasons stated above. I hope lessons have been learned from.his outcome.

As for A &B. Here's hoping justice is served and any treating mental health professionals keep Venables in mind when treating and assessing these 2.

Dht · 22-06-2019 11:39PM

When she entered the room she was hit by a plank which had nails embedded either end.. after disabling her she was dragged across the room towards the window so the light was better.. she was strangled by tape (given by boy b from his garage)... when she was found 3 fingers were inside the tape trying to get it off. She was struck over & over by the edge /point of a concrete block. My heart goes out to Ana... many would have been finished by being hit by a wooden plank with nails embedded..she fought back so hard.. the last thing she saw was a horrific mask towering over her. How her family & the boys family can go on ... I just don’t know

OwlsZat · 22-06-2019 11:49PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

They showed not one ounce of remorse , not one ounce of guilt , not ounce of empathy towards Ana mam and dad . Not one single ounce of regret or even a tear of empathy . Boy B spoke of Ana with disdain and used horrible words about her even after her death. Both these boys will never be rehabilitated in my opinion

A 13 year old couldn't develop thoughts about how "slutty" or unwanted another adopted child had been. It feels like it was born at home. Horribly mistaken beliefs broadcast by parents to a thick child who took them all in and sadly acted on them. Dads court room venting further vindication that really he blames himself. I'd guess he was correct where he put the blame.

OwlsZat · 22-06-2019 11:52PM

Dht wrote: »

When she entered the room she was hit by a plank which had nails embedded either end.. after disabling her she was dragged across the room towards the window so the light was better.. she was strangled by tape (given by boy b from his garage)... when she was found 3 fingers were inside the tape trying to get it off. She was struck over & over by the edge /point of a concrete block. My heart goes out to Ana... many would have been finished by being hit by a wooden plank with nails embedded..she fought back so hard.. the last thing she saw was a horrific mask towering over her. How her family & the boys family can go on ... I just don’t know

I've heard from parents previously that anyone and anyone can get a total **** head. True or untrue? I feel its more
environmental? Dont be a **** parent don't have ****head child.

mrjoneill · 23-06-2019 01:23AM

Dht wrote: »

iAna was an innocent victim. the attack abs angry and frenzied.. psychopaths have no empathy ..sympathetic feelings .. they are described as “cold” .. it doesn’t neccessarily make them killers. but watching porn.. having over 2000 pornographic images (boy As phone) yes desensitizes to a degree but does this by itself turn you into a killer? The absolute rage demonstrated is off the scale . Nothing excuses what happened that day... 40 minutes after Boy B arrived at her house Ana was dead.. it was a planned execution. Nothing that happened that day could be described as “normal behavior” ....a 13 yo may “act out “ but what they did that day ... there is no explanation. A lot of the discussion has taken the form of how involved was Boy B.... I suppose where I’m coming from ... & I can’t get this out of my head is “WHY” ???? If I were Ana’s parent that is the qn I would want answered ... why did you do this to my darling girl ... is watching porn... having psychopathic traits the reason? Because if we don’t find the “why” .. this might happen again... what needs to change to try & ensure it doesn’t. In a few weeks ppl will move on..I just think we need to try and find out how & why 2 13 yo boys became killers.

Bulger killers

One kicked a baby into the face because there was blood on his shoes as the result. Beat baby with an iron bar across the head. Serious sexual assault on a baby. repeated punched baby & hit with bricks. tried to drown baby in canal. Spend that afternoon seeking to take a baby & made attempts on other baby's.

Were never really deprived completely of their liberty were on constant days out to shopping centres and sports facilities. Were released before prison age 18.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrkQe4tyJnQ

GT_TDI_150 · 23-06-2019 07:12AM

OwlsZat wrote: »

A 13 year old couldn't develop thoughts about how "slutty" or unwanted another adopted child had been. It feels like it was born at home. Horribly mistaken beliefs broadcast by parents to a thick child who took them all in and sadly acted on them. Dads court room venting further vindication that really he blames himself. I'd guess he was correct where he put the blame.

So a 13yr old would hear 'adopted' and not think 'her real parents didnt want her'?!

Kids much younger than that would pick up on kids wearing the fake replica football jerseys and make the link the parents must be poor.

Recently talking to a mother in work whose child would go to the last gaa match before her hols incase shed brake a leg and would have a cast on hols meaning one leg wouldnt tan and shed look like a freak to her friends, she is 11.

Kids are super clued in and pick up on any perceived weakness.

IvoryTower · 23-06-2019 08:43AM

OwlsZat wrote: »

I've heard from parents previously that anyone and anyone can get a total **** head. True or untrue? I feel its more
environmental? Dont be a **** parent don't have ****head child.

Yep and bad parents can also raise great kids, most kids reflect their parenting though imo.

shesty · 23-06-2019 09:05AM

In the midst of all the posts postulating about how she was strangled, or hit or dragged, I think we should all look at these photos.Published today by the Kriegel family

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/from-beaming-pink-princess-to-shy-teen-anas-life-in-pictures-38244392.html

She was very beautiful.Growing up to be a stunning girl.Ironically, probably exactly the type of girl that those boys would have chased after in years to come....and hopefully been turned down by.What is wrong with teenagers that they are so afraid of anything different to themselves??

Your heart would break looking at those.Forget those two little.....

Remember her.

iamwhoiam · 23-06-2019 09:08AM

Beautiful photos shesty and a beautiful family . Anas parents can at least be very proud of her and remember that she was their darling girl .

Larsso30 · 23-06-2019 09:22AM

MrFresh wrote: »

I think it was the other way around. Venables cried every day of the trial and asked that the little boy's mother be told he was sorry.

If memory serves me right

Thompson was seen as the driving force behind the crime, the more evil of the two if you prefer, awful family home etc.

Venables seen as the follower, from the more stable family home. Softer almost

History has shown since their release that their behaviour is contrary to this, Thompson never been in trouble thay we are aware of
Venables the one who has been convicted multiple times for depraved crimes.

volchitsa · 23-06-2019 09:39AM

shesty wrote: »

In the midst of all the posts postulising about how she was strangled, or hit or dragged, I think we should all look at these photos.Published today by the Kriegel family

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/from-beaming-pink-princess-to-shy-teen-anas-life-in-pictures-38244392.html

She was very beautiful.Growing up to be a stunning girl.Ironically, probably exactly the type of girl that those boys would have chased after in years to come....and hopefully been turned down by.What is wrong with teenagers that they are so afraid of anything different to themselves??

Your heart would break looking at those.Forget those two little.....

Remember her.

My god her poor parents - my heart is breaking looking st those pictures so what must it be like for them? It's unbearable to even think about it.

Such a sweet, gorgeous girl, and while I know the other teens who bullied her weren't responsible for her murdered - I'm sure they couldn't even have imagined it, I can't help thinking that her isolation was very much part of why she was so vulnerable to them.

Quite apart from the issues with those two boys, I think there's something terribly wrong with our whole culture that we seem to just accept this sort of bullying as inevitable and even natural.

facehugger99 · 23-06-2019 09:45AM

I think there is a desensitising and dehumanising issue with the amount of hardcore pornography that is being accessed by kids today from a very young age right through puberty.

I remember watching a 2 hour French movie on C4 in the 80's to see 3 seconds of side-boob, today the most extreme and violent pornography is a button's click away - It can't be healthy.

volchitsa · 23-06-2019 09:48AM

Larsso30 wrote: »

If memory serves me right

Thompson was seen as the driving force behind the crime, the more evil of the two if you prefer, awful family home etc.

Venables seen as the follower, from the more stable family home. Softer almost

History has shown since their release that their behaviour is contrary to this, Thompson never been in trouble thay we are aware of
Venables the one who has been convicted multiple times for depraved crimes.

Yes I've been pointing this out too, Venables the "soft, lost, middle class boy from a good family" was seen by almost everyone, including by the psychologists around them as to some extent the victim of the "tougher" lad from a tough background.

In fact it turns out that Thompson was the victim of an abusive family background and was "rescued" from that by being sent to the youth centre. Perhaps he didn't even need "rehabilitation" in the usual sense, he just needed a decent upbringing

I'm not sure what that tells us about intensive work by psychologists on children who commit crimes, or on criminals more generally.

23-06-2019 10:08AM

shesty wrote: »

In the midst of all the posts postulising about how she was strangled, or hit or dragged, I think we should all look at these photos.Published today by the Kriegel family

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/from-beaming-pink-princess-to-shy-teen-anas-life-in-pictures-38244392.html

She was very beautiful.Growing up to be a stunning girl.Ironically, probably exactly the type of girl that those boys would have chased after in years to come....and hopefully been turned down by.What is wrong with teenagers that they are so afraid of anything different to themselves??

Your heart would break looking at those.Forget those two little.....

Remember her.

Remember her. The most sensible post to date.
Remember her. Her beauty. Her youth. Her potential. Remember her.

SirChenjin · 23-06-2019 10:16AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Remember her. The most sensible post to date.
Remember her. Her beauty. Her youth. Her potential. Remember her.

That is the point that some of us have made throughout the thread. Ana was so beautiful, and so very deeply loved. This was evident in everything that her parents said about her.

May she rest in peace, poor innocent child.

shamrock55 · 23-06-2019 10:21AM

It's times like this I really wish this country had the death sentence, just rid society once and for all of this evil scumb and save tax payers to boot

MrFresh · 23-06-2019 11:10AM

Larsso30 wrote: »

If memory serves me right

Thompson was seen as the driving force behind the crime, the more evil of the two if you prefer, awful family home etc.

Venables seen as the follower, from the more stable family home. Softer almost

History has shown since their release that their behaviour is contrary to this, Thompson never been in trouble thay we are aware of
Venables the one who has been convicted multiple times for depraved crimes.

I think the guilt whole think just broke Venables completely. He's just completely messed up now, more so than he was. He'll never be right on the outside.

Suckit · 23-06-2019 11:20AM

I can't help wondering to what extent was Ana spoken about by the local boys in the area.
4 older boys surrounded her one night comng home from helping at a teeny tots disco and asking her for sex and one patted her on the bum.
When she got home, her mother had to comfort her for an hour to calm her down as she was so shaken by it.

Kidchameleon · 23-06-2019 11:37AM

shamrock55 wrote: »

It's times like this I really wish this country had the death sentence, just rid society once and for all of this evil scumb and save tax payers to boot

Luckily for these two children, this is not the case. They should be helped & rehabilitated with every resource we have so that they can one day contribute something back. A person wanting them dead, in my opinion, makes that person no better than them.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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