Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

monty_python · 20-06-2019 10:38PM

This thread needs to be locked up now.
What can be said that hasn't already been said??

tuxy · 20-06-2019 10:39PM

monty_python wrote: »

This thread needs to be locked up now.
What can be said that hasn't already been said??

There's loads that can be said about the sentencing that has yet to take place......

Gadgetman496 · 20-06-2019 10:39PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

She was Ana primary school teacher . Were the boys in that school ? Did she know them ? Did she have contact with them ? Was she in their home checking their phones ?

Was she in Ana's home checking her phone?

Cryptopagan · 20-06-2019 10:42PM

Force Carrier wrote: »

You can be fairly certain the solicitor's advice was to keep shtum. That's standard.

I think the dynamic of his parents presence here might have had an influence.
The lad was maintaining his innocence to them as much as to the garda and was saying I can answer everything it's all ok.

Also he was basically unknowledgeable and inexperienced at dealing with being accused of a crime, dealing with police and being in custody. His solicitor was probably going nuts on the inside but could do nothing.

And presumably the parents could have brought the questioning to an end at any time by getting up and walking out of the station, preventing the guards from continuing to legally question the boy. If they realised that their son was guilty and talking himself into a hole, and if they wanted to prevent his conviction, that would have been the obvious course of action. They facilitated his conviction by sitting there, which makes me think they probably believed he was innocent, just an unwitting tool of boy A, etc.

iamwhoiam · 20-06-2019 10:44PM

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Was she in Ana's home checking her phone?

I think you need a reality check

Fall_Guy · 20-06-2019 10:44PM

Blinky Plebum wrote: »

This was pure calculated evil, there was no emotion (passion,anger whatever else you might try to use as an excuse) to explain it.

I don't care about being compassionate for individuals like this, they don't deserve any compassion.

Most people have dark angry thoughts throughout there lives (i.e.I'd love to kick the ****e out of that dickhead), but most people know the line and know that acting upon them is wrong.

These boys were old enough and intelligent enough to know what they were doing was wrong.

I'm not sure how you think I was trying to excuse this crime. I most definitely wasn't considering it a crime of passion, when I mentioned that I was talking about your contention that all murders should carry a real life sentence. But the reality is the circumstances of murders can vary greatly.

This one, however, I was putting firmly in the purely calculated camp, and saying that it does seem to fit the "evil" description often given to crimes like this, and they may well be (or at least boy a) psychopaths.... But if that's the case, they are 1. Beyond rehabilitation and 2. Not truly in control of their actions. None of the evidence suggests that psychopathy is a state of mind that someone simply chooses. In that case I can't get in line with the thinking they should be constantly punished until their dying day. What you are viewing as a person's choice to commit evil acts is really far less of an act of free will than you are painting it.

20-06-2019 10:45PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Absolutely agree with you. I wasn't thinking of it from a legal standpoint. I'm on board and happy to have my mind changed. Thanks to the poster who challenged my view, I see their point and have adjusted my opinion.

I totally understand where you were coming from though and was initially 'WTF?!' myself on hearing that they were excused from such things.

selectamatic · 20-06-2019 10:46PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

She was Ana primary school teacher . Were the boys in that school ? Did she know them ? Did she have contact with them ? Was she in their home checking their phones ?

Facts like these don't matter to the it's the schools/overpaid teachers fault brigade.

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Amazing how the teacher was so gifted that she flagged her serious concerns about Ana yet appears to (as far as we know) have been unable to see through the real interests of the two boys.

Her resource teacher from Primary school. Who most likely had zero dealings with boy A or B. As they probably didn't go to that school at all. And who by all accounts went above and beyond for Ana.

Ya good man for trying to find yet another way to put some blame on a teacher.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 20-06-2019 10:48PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

To what end?

That still means innocent people will have been harassed or worse when we could chose to reduce the chances. If the idea of children being harassed is an acceptable risk to some, it's not acceptable to me.

Do you think that nobody should be named in court cases given the worry you have about the mobs reaction to families.

The whole family of B fleeing the mob is bollocks btw. Where’s the mob?

mrjoneill · 20-06-2019 10:49PM

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Boy A wore a horror mask, nee pad and whatever else was part of his killing gear.

I'd imagine it was designed to frighten the life out of poor Ana.

The state afforded boy A & B anonymity, and did you know that the judge and the legal people discarded their wigs and robes and all dressed in suits during the trial so as not to intimidate the two little boys on trial.

I don't see Boy A gear that way. I see the mask as acting out some character he may have seen & Boy B told the investigating Gardai it was so cool. This is not the first case where a teenager has acted out a horror character to commit an abominable crime. His Timberland boots, knee pads & shinguard was for battle on his victim.

Fan of Netflix · 20-06-2019 10:49PM

https://twitter.com/CathMurphyTD/status/1141817958890639360

Monumental · 20-06-2019 10:49PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

What do you mean ?

There's always that ONE who tries to go off topic and tie in another case ,this is about Ana and the court verdict of her murderers

Shemale · 20-06-2019 10:51PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Jesus.

Why not just kill them?

Make up your mind!

Tin Foil Hat · 20-06-2019 10:51PM

I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that we may have convicted at least one, if not two, potential serial killers on their first outing. They need to be sentenced accordingly. That means that the judge needs to hand out at least one, hopefully two, life sentences. When these two are eventually released, and they will be, the state must have the power to lock either of them away indefinitely if they are subsequently deemed to be a real danger to other women or girls.

fryup · 20-06-2019 10:51PM

monty_python wrote: »

This thread needs to be locked up now.
What can be said that hasn't already been said??

tuxy wrote: »

There's loads that can be said about the sentencing that has yet to take place......

can we lock it till then

jimmycrackcorm · 20-06-2019 10:53PM

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Amazing how the teacher was so gifted that she flagged her serious concerns about Ana yet appears to (as far as we know) have been unable to see through the real interests of the two boys.

I guess she wasn't a mind reader.

tayto lover · 20-06-2019 10:54PM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

And presumably the parents could have brought the questioning to an end at any time by getting up and walking out of the station, preventing the guards from continuing to legally question the boy. If they realised that their son was guilty and talking himself into a hole, and if they wanted to prevent his conviction, that would have been the obvious course of action. They facilitated his conviction by sitting there, which makes me think they probably believed he was innocent, just an unwitting tool of boy A, etc.

What struck me was that anytime Boy B mentioned Ana in his interrogation it was to put her down. Even when he knew she was dead and in such a violent manner he was still inclined to insult her. He’s a proper little monster that one.

Aisling_Dublin · 20-06-2019 10:54PM

shesty wrote: »

They have been convicted....what is the point of all this?

No point at all. Over 200 pages of discussion on identities, school role, parents' role, details of the crime, the ifs and but, could haves and would haves, and we're still not talking about what we should do as society to prevent another Ana's life being lost.

mrjoneill · 20-06-2019 10:57PM

Strazdas wrote: »

The local TD who knew Ana and the family well said Ana's mum was a fantastic mother to her. I don't doubt this for a moment.

She had a fantastic mother & father they likes that kids dream about and granny. Her mother took a keen interest in her & was so in tune with the event she smelled all was unwell when Ana was missing with Boy B. We also know she had a fantastic teacher at her primary school that contacted her secondary for the need for a proactive approach dealing with Ana. We know she had no friends of her own age group which does not reflect kindly of the kids of the area, one of the posher suburbs of Ireland.

jimmycrackcorm · 20-06-2019 10:58PM

fryup wrote: »

can we lock it till then

Why? Nobody is surfing you to read it. Why do you want to impose your judgement on what people should or not say

mrjoneill · 20-06-2019 11:04PM

tayto lover wrote: »

What struck me was that anytime Boy B mentioned Ana in his interrogation it was to put her down. Even when he knew she was dead and in such a violent manner he was still inclined to insult her. He’s a proper little monster that one.

He was in manipulation mode to manipulate his interrogators. He was attempting to get the message across "she was a slut, weirdo, no one would be seen dead with" so whats to worry about. It was if he & his friend had done Ireland a big favor. One wonders how he had no value system. The more I study Boy B the more I see a little manipulative rat. His attempted manipulations during his interrogations is like something from a seasoned criminal. Only for alternative evidence to counter his he would have run riot. And there was no remorse.

Shemale · 20-06-2019 11:05PM

On the bullying point it really is time the Government sort this **** out so many kids lives ruined or lost due to pathetic assholes.

Suspensions and eventual expulsions are the only way, government have made it almost impossible for a school to expel a pupil as everyone should get an education.

If some kids are being pricks and destroying other kids lives and educations, give their parents warnings with suspensions and finally expulsion and let the ****ing parents teach them.

TheBoyConor · 20-06-2019 11:05PM

tuxy wrote: »

You're crazy. You know that Boy A claimed he was attacked and him and his Dad even went around the park trying to track down the two men his son claimed were responsible. The clothes were washed while Ana was still missing with no contact between him and the Guards yet.
What kind of mother would suspect her son of murder the instant a girl goes missing in the area?

The dad looking for the attackers become she was found dead, that I can accept. However he refused to accept that the soon was guilty as fook when the irrefutable evidence came to light.
Also, the mother found a bloodied hoodie. It would have been clear to her the boy was not injured or blessing himself and the blood was someone else's. If she believed the assault story/lie, then logically would she not have kept the hoodie as evidence against the men who supposedly attacked the boy? No?
In my opinion we cannot discount the possibility that once she came to suspect he did something bad, she attempted to destroy the evidence. That makes her an accomplice or accessory.

I cannot accept that and I think his parents, by failure to denounce the boys have condemned themselves. I believe that that should be punished severely. If not though imprisonment along with the boys then it should be by public denunciation and shunning which it would appear is already under way.

I find it more disturbing to have to share a country with you than with those boy’s parents TBH.

So you have a difficulty with condemning the actions of the boys and condemning their families who, either knowingly or unknowingly, destroyed evidence and attempted to get them off the hook even when confronted with the facts and evidence of the full horrors of what they had done?

If I had a family member who I was satisfied had committed such an act against a vulnerable young girl I would denounce them and disown them without hesitation. To support such a depraved person would be to condemn yourself.

Gadgetman496 · 20-06-2019 11:06PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

She had a fantastic mother & father they likes that kids dream about and granny. Her mother took a keen interest in her & was so in tune with the event she smelled all was unwell when Ana was missing with Boy B. We also know she had a fantastic teacher at her primary school that contacted her secondary for the need for a proactive approach dealing with Ana. We know she had no friends of her own age group which does not reflect kindly of the kids of the area, one of the posher suburbs of Ireland.

We know the teacher identified Ana was being bullied.

We know she made it known to Ana's parents.

What we don't know is what she did if anything to reprimand the bullies.

Ash.J.Williams · 20-06-2019 11:08PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

He was in manipulation mode to manipulate his interrogators. He was attempting to get the message across "she was a slut, weirdo, no one would be seen dead with" so whats to worry about. It was if he & his friend had done Ireland a big favor. One wonders how he had no value system. The more I study Boy B the more I see a little manipulative rat. His attempted manipulations during his interrogations is like something from a seasoned criminal. Only for alternative evidence to counter his he would have run riot. And there was no remorse.

I think that's the opinion the jury had

Ash.J.Williams · 20-06-2019 11:09PM

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

We know the teacher identified Ana was being bullied.

We know she made it known to Ana's parents.

What we don't know is what she did if anything to reprimand the bullies.

Her bully's were in secondary school and that was primary school

tuxy · 20-06-2019 11:09PM

TheBoyConor wrote: »

The dad looking for the attackers become she was found dead, that I can accept. However he refused to accept that the soon was guilty as fook when the irrefutable evidence came to light.
Also, the mother found a bloodied hoodie. It would have been clear to her the boy was not injured or blessing himself and the blood was someone else's. If she believed the assault story/lie, then logically would she not have kept the hoodie as evidence against the men who supposedly attacked the boy? No?
In my opinion we cannot discount the possibility that once she came to suspect he did something bad, she attempted to destroy the evidence. That makes her an accomplice or accessory.

The Garda who have been extremely diligent throughout would not have let the parents off if there was any evidence to bad up what you claim.

Eoin · 20-06-2019 11:10PM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

And presumably the parents could have brought the questioning to an end at any time by getting up and walking out of the station, preventing the guards from continuing to legally question the boy. If they realised that their son was guilty and talking himself into a hole, and if they wanted to prevent his conviction, that would have been the obvious course of action. They facilitated his conviction by sitting there, which makes me think they probably believed he was innocent, just an unwitting tool of boy A, etc.

The Gardai can nominate another adult to be present if the parent/guardian isn't. That means they could probably get someone like a social worker to stand in if they needed to.

Gadgetman496 wrote:

We know the teacher identified Ana was being bullied.

We know she made it known to Ana's parents.

What we don't know is what she did if anything to reprimand the bullies.

We know that her primary school teacher warned her parents that there was a high risk of her being bullied in secondary school.

Larbre34 · 20-06-2019 11:11PM

Shemale wrote: »

On the bullying point it really is time the Government sort this **** out so many kids lives ruined or lost due to pathetic assholes.

Suspensions and eventual expulsions are the only way, government have made it almost impossible for a school to expel a pupil as everyone should get an education.

If some kids are being pricks and destroying other kids lives and educations, give their parents warnings with suspensions and finally expulsion and let the ****ing parents teach them.

What goes on at School itself is pretty much the least of the issue.

Force Carrier · 20-06-2019 11:13PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

I don't see Boy B gear that way. I see the mask as acting out some character he may have seen & Boy B told the investigating Gardai it was so cool. This is not the first case where a teenager has acted out a horror character to commit an abominable crime. His Timberland boots, knee pads & shinguard was for battle on his victim.

It was A who had the bag containing the mask and shin guards etc and most likely him that used them.

You really are clueless on every aspect of this case.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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