Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

tuxy · 20-06-2019 06:39PM

volchitsa wrote: »

Anyine else think he was trying a bit too hard here? A play sword at 13, Lego at Oberstown? I have 2 boys who were a lot more naive than this lad seems to have been they certainly didn't hang around with friends who had child porn on their phones

It does sound like he wanted to cover himself incase any of his DNA was found inside.

How did you have access to the phones of these friends? Or are you just stating it was back in a time before smart phones?

volchitsa · 20-06-2019 06:39PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

Once Boy B was id his friends would come under suspicion & failing that the whole school would be DNA tested.

Would this be legal without parental permission?

(All academic now I guess, but I don't think it would have been that easy.)

Ash.J.Williams · 20-06-2019 06:40PM

guestus wrote: »

Would you like your daughter going out with one of these guys when they get out of prison , without knowing who they are and what they did?

Welcome to boards...

And no

MrFresh · 20-06-2019 06:40PM

Force Carrier wrote: »

Do you know the legal position with this?

It'd have to be voluntary.

Rubberchikken · 20-06-2019 06:40PM

would hanging them mean another crime like this wil never happen again?
of course not.
will it change things if the whole word knows their names.
of course not.

jattempting to justify knowing their names by saying that maybe theyll be living near /dating someone i know someday is hogwash.

this news will pass.
the appalling behaviour of some kids will continue. until parents and schools cop on and actually do something about bullying that they know about, nothing will change.

these boys, particularly boy A , sound seriously unhinged.

mrjoneill · 20-06-2019 06:41PM

Force Carrier wrote: »

You introduced now the idea of not intervening. I never said that that was what was implied. The two key pieces of evidence his presence at the scene and that he knew what was happening came from his admissions. Without them there was no case. That is not to say there was no evidence beyond those points. And of course the case was based on them being involved in a common enterprise. That could not have been proven without B's answers to garda questions.

Not strictly true, both were together earlier that evening & both went to the derelict house using separate routes, with Boy B bringing Ana while Boy A made his own way. This was confirmed prior to the interviews of both Boy A & Boy B by CCTV & witnesses.The contorted statements of Boy B confirmed there was a common design that's all, his presence at the murder scene was he was present to witness the end of what was a common design or purpose. There was no evidence he participated in the actual killing there, other than the belief of a common purpose to lure her there

volchitsa · 20-06-2019 06:48PM

tuxy wrote: »

It does sound like he wanted to cover himself incase any of his DNA was found inside.

How did you have access to the phones of these friends? Or are you just stating it was back in a time before smart phones?

My eldest is now in his mid 20s, I don't remember exactly when smartphones came in but any kind of phones weren't that common until they got to about 15 round here. Back then, now of course they all have them.

Thing is, I do remember him around that age (1st or 2nd year of secondary school) not wanting to hang about with a boy in his class because this lad was bringing in porn magazines and sticking them under the noses of the girls at break time, intimidating them basically. So I know he wasn't "into" porn at that age or at least not any sort of "aggressive" use of it, and this other guy was in a minority, plus a couple of hangers on who thought it was funny to do this to the girls. I don't think most of the boys were like that.

My point is that they're all keen on sex, of course, but they're also a bit afraid of it at a certain age, and boys/men who are actually into violence against women have always existed. That didn't begin with porn on phones, it just expressed itself in different ways.

martingriff · 20-06-2019 06:49PM

OwlsZat wrote: »

Read a seemingly intelligent person on Twitter making out like this was somehow his teachers fault, as her parents had done everything possible for her. Surely the blame lies exclusively with the boys and their parents.

I feel in time technology will become a watchdog for sociopathic children but forced compliance seems a long way off. Too many parents suffer from the my Jimmy denial syndrome.

I blame the 2 boys for killing Ana no one else as they did it

facehugger99 · 20-06-2019 06:49PM

shesty wrote: »

They have been convicted....what is the point of all this?

The bloodlust of the mob hasn't been fully sated I presume.

fly_agaric · 20-06-2019 06:50PM

"I neeeed to know details of who A and B are and what they look like. What if my daughter gets involved with them/I go to buy a used car off them 15 years in future!"

Do people believe that rationale themselves I wonder?
It is driven by voyeurism & also anger (boiling over into people wanting to lash out at someone, anyone).

Even if the Judge had announced it was going to be considered again (when they are adults, when they are coming up for a review or whatever) I think social media reaction of posting stuff breaking the law would have been identical. Whole thing makes me a little sick; social media really is a poison. edit: and now of course I've felt an instant of anger about something and added a drop to the dose.

Force Carrier · 20-06-2019 06:51PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

Not strictly true, both were together earlier that evening & both went to the derelict house using separate routes, with Boy B bringing Ana while Boy A made his own way. This was confirmed prior to the interviews of both Boy A & Boy B by CCTV & witnesses.The contorted statements of Boy B confirmed there was a common design that's all, his presence at the murder scene was he was present to witness the end of what was a common design or purpose. There was no evidence he participated in the actual killing there, other than the belief of a common purpose to lure her there

Are you claiming that there was other evidence to put B at the crime scene?

facehugger99 · 20-06-2019 06:52PM

Camila Hallowed Apple wrote: »

I’d like to know if I was living next door to these depraved lunatics in a few years, if one of them was dating my child/family member or if our paths crossed in any way, I think I should have the right to know if they raped someone or took a life.

You've probably a better chance of being hit by lightning than having either of the scenarios you've posted happen to you.

So I wouldn't worry about it too much.

mrjoneill · 20-06-2019 06:53PM

Breaston Plants wrote: »

Anyone know what kind of conditions these 2 guys should expect in Oberstown prison?

Alesha MacPhail murder trial: Boy, 16, denies killing six-year-old girl

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-47291956

The killer here a now 16yr old A student (was 15 when killed) is locked up almost round the clock in a cell. He has a TV & computer games in his cell in a youth detention center. Obv for his own safety he cant be allowed mix with the other young offenders. I presume the same will apply here as for their future education I presume plans will have to be put in place because of their relatively young age to continue with one to one tutoring.

tuxy · 20-06-2019 06:55PM

Force Carrier wrote: »

Are you claiming that there was other evidence to put B at the crime scene?

His backpack of invisible phones?

freshpopcorn · 20-06-2019 06:55PM

When I was at the end of primary school/start of secondary school there were a few porn pics/videos going around.
They were nothing violent/just tit pics really/Also there was a lot of Marge/Homer stuff doing the rounds.
A lot of the stuff originated from people texting off for pics off magazines. Then they were forwarded on infrared.(I think)
One thing that never happened tough was shoving them in girls faces.

Suckit · 20-06-2019 06:57PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

Alesha MacPhail murder trial: Boy, 16, denies killing six-year-old girl

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-47291956

I would imagine that would be a little different (although no less horrific) because she was a six year old.

mrjoneill · 20-06-2019 06:57PM

Force Carrier wrote: »

Are you claiming that there was other evidence to put B at the crime scene?

No read what I wrote, CCTV & other witness statements put both Boy A & Boy B together in a common plan. Boy B statements were to throw doubt on the camera lying. Every-time he lied of his non involvement he was corrected with external evidence to the facts.

Gimme A Pound · 20-06-2019 06:58PM

Just in relation to the bullying Ana endured, not the murder as only two arrogant, vile pieces of sh1t did that: I see people write "As a parent, this does this to me and that to me". I know people mean well, but it reeks a bit of "only a parent will truly understand the pain" - well where were any of these super beings in the locality to help out Ana when she was alive and needed them? How could nobody help her? How can a world become such that children have more power than adults?

Some person was trying to be edgy last night here by saying over and over that people will forget soon. Personally I'm just getting more and more angry and upset.

And while the bullying didn't murder her, it created a culture of dehumanising her and making her more and more fair game.

volchitsa · 20-06-2019 07:01PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

When I was at the end of primary school/start of secondary school there were a few porn pics/videos going around.
They were nothing violent/just tit pics really/Also there was a lot of Marge/Homer stuff doing the rounds.
A lot of the stuff originated from people texting off for pics off magazines. Then they were forwarded on infrared.(I think)
One thing that never happened tough was shoving them in girls faces.

Yeah that's what I mean, there's a violence there that has always existed long before access to violent porn on phones, and most kids don't want to be part of that. Like most adults I would hope. Boys want to see what women look like without their clothes on, they don't want to see adults having sex with children.

Mech1 · 20-06-2019 07:01PM

I Dont think your allowed to mention the school name. better if you delete.

Grayson · 20-06-2019 07:01PM

OwlsZat wrote: »

Read a seemingly intelligent person on Twitter making out like this was somehow his teachers fault, as her parents had done everything possible for her. Surely the blame lies exclusively with the boys and their parents.

I feel in time technology will become a watchdog for sociopathic children but forced compliance seems a long way off. Too many parents suffer from the my Jimmy denial syndrome.

I wouldn't say blame but rather a causal factor.

Think of it this way, there could be a hundred different things that led to the point where the boys killed her. We could say that if one of those things hadn't happened it might not have happened. However only one decision was taken with the intent of killing her. That was the two boys.

All of the other events are really just what if's. What if the teacher or parent or whoever had done something different. Well, none of them knew otherwise they would have.

That doesn't mean that we can't learn some lessons. We can take away from this that we need to do more about bullying. Not because it might stop a death but because it hurts innocent children.

Force Carrier · 20-06-2019 07:03PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

The contorted statements of Boy B confirmed there was a common design that's all, his presence at the murder scene

Force Carrier wrote: »

Are you claiming that there was other evidence to put B at the crime scene?

mrjoneill wrote: »

No read what I wrote

I read what you typed. You say Boy B was at the murder scene.

TheBoyConor · 20-06-2019 07:03PM

Could the court order prohibiting identification be sort of circumvented by people sharing the identities of the parents instead?
That way the bastards are not identified directly but there accomplice parents are and then people can draw their own conclusions and to which of their children may have been the murderers?

It's all a waste if time anyway. People will find out one way or another. All one has to do is ask someone they know in the local pubs up there and they will spill it. Word of mouth will carry it far and wide if not the internet.

I believe that the boys' parents should all be arrested and charged with being an accessory to the crime. Boy As mother washed a blood soaked hoodie TWICE! Unless she is intellectual deficienct, she knew what happened. Someone was killed or seriously hurt.
All four parents stood by these two proclaiming their innocence and interfering brazenly in the face of overwhelming evidence. How they could even show their faces in public after knowing what their kids did is actually staggeringly brazen.

For that, I would like to see both families imprisoned for an significant sentence.

I am also satisfied to see Boy B's family forced into hiding. They are feeling the wrath of the public's revulsion at what they have done and how they have supported the killers of Ana.

Suckit · 20-06-2019 07:04PM

Force Carrier wrote: »

I read what you typed. You say Boy B was at the murder scene.

Boy B was at the murder scene. He admitted that.

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 20-06-2019 07:07PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

No read what I wrote, CCTV & other witness statements put both Boy A & Boy B together in a common plan. Boy B statements were to throw doubt on the camera lying. Every-time he lied of his non involvement he was corrected with external evidence to the facts.

CCTV/witness statement do not prove a common plan.

Boy B statement were not to throw doubt on the CCTV lying, the opposite happened.

I'm not sure if you're just not really explaining yourself properly here or you're trying hard to be I know it all and coming off really bad at it. A previous post you mentioned how the jury was "feeling".. unless you were on the jury/know someone on it, a weird way to phase what you were trying get across.

Force Carrier · 20-06-2019 07:08PM

Suckit wrote: »

Boy B was at the murder scene. He admitted that.

I know that. We are discussing Boy B's position if he had of kept his mouth shut and made no admissions.

mrjoneill is claiming that Boy B would have been charged and convicted even had he made no comment or statement to Gardaí.

He has yet to answer what evidence would place Boy B at the scene or how a murder verdict would carry against him without that.

facehugger99 · 20-06-2019 07:09PM

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Could the court order prohibiting identification be sort of circumvented by people sharing the identities of the parents instead?
That way the bastards are not identified directly but there accomplice parents are and then people can draw their own conclusions and to which of their children may have been the murderers?

It's all a waste if time anyway. People will find out one way or another. All one has to do is ask someone they know in the local pubs up there and they will spill it. Word of mouth will carry it far and wide if not the internet.

I believe that the boys' parents should all be arrested and charged with being an accessory to the crime. Boy As mother washed a blood soaked hoodie TWICE! Unless she is intellectual deficienct, she knew what happened. Someone was killed or seriously hurt.
All four parents stood by these two proclaiming their innocence and interfering brazenly in the face of overwhelming evidence. How they could even show their faces in public after knowing what their kids did is actually staggeringly brazen.

For that, I would like to see both families imprisoned for an significant sentence.

I am also satisfied to see Boy B's family forced into hiding. They are feeling the wrath of the public's revulsion at what they have done and how they have supported the killers of Ana.

I find it more disturbing to have to share a country with you than with those boy’s parents TBH.

tuxy · 20-06-2019 07:10PM

TheBoyConor wrote: »

It's all a waste if time anyway. People will find out one way or another. All one has to do is ask someone they know in the local pubs up there and they will spill it. Word of mouth will carry it far and wide if not the internet.

I believe that the boys' parents should all be arrested and charged with being an accessory to the crime. Boy As mother washed a blood soaked hoodie TWICE! Unless she is intellectual deficienct, she knew what happened. Someone was killed or seriously hurt.
All four parents stood by these two proclaiming their innocence and interfering brazenly in the face of overwhelming evidence. How they could even show their faces in public after knowing what their kids did is actually staggeringly brazen.

For that, I would like to see both families imprisoned for an significant sentence.

You're crazy. You know that Boy A claimed he was attacked and him and his Dad even went around the park trying to track down the two men his son claimed were responsible. The clothes were washed while Ana was still missing with no contact between him and the Guards yet.
What kind of mother would suspect her son of murder the instant a girl goes missing in the area?

Kidchameleon · 20-06-2019 07:10PM

The amount of posters here saying they wished they didn't read the details or that they cant sleep at night thinking about this is worrying. I mean, come on people, this stuff happens every day the world over, if you are so personally effected by this that you are having nightmares then I really question your ability to cope in the real world.

mrjoneill · 20-06-2019 07:14PM

tuxy wrote: »

Then there was incident with the ranger in the park and other people that can place Boy A in that area. Once the DNA was found Garda would have eventually tested Boy A under almost every possible scenario.
The case against Boy B was the one that needed the most work.

Forensics made Boy A an open & shut case. As for Boy B there was none so evidence had to be build up from the surrounding circumstances. Most telling was Ana's father identifying Boy B calling for her and she going off with him and she not coming home. Boy B implicated Boy A at the start of the investigations while Boy A was complaining of being a victim handling over his own clothes & footwear as evidence of this which provided the evidence of it having Ana's blood. He even gave his DNA at that time. Ana was still missing at that time.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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