Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

evolving_doors · 19-06-2019 04:30PM

retro:electro wrote: »

It reminds me of an incident that Judge Judy (bear with me) often recites when she’s lecturing someone about when she used to preside in Criminal Court. She once sentenced a group of five girls to murder even though only one of the girls dealt any fatal blows. What it came down to for her, and she is right, is the but for the fact. But for the fact that these four other girls didn’t conspire to meet the victim and lead her to the one who murdered her and watch as she got stabbed, the victim might still be alive today.
And that’s what I feel boy B’s conviction rests on too. But for the fact he never made it his business to clearly lead Ana to her death, she may never have met boy A and could still be alive today. And but for the fact he never alerted anyone to the fact he had witnessed an assault and left as she was screaming for her life, she may still have had a chance to live.

Boy b was fleeing from a murder, but don't forget boy b was fleeing from a murderer too.

If you think about it, there probably was, in boy b's mind, a strong possibility that they wouldn't get caught. So he knew what boy a could do. Did he know he'd have the protection of the law against boy A if he told the truth? I think he was scared.

19-06-2019 04:31PM

Don't know if it's been posted already but noticed this on the lengthy Irish Times article

Before closing speeches began there was some legal argument about the possibility of alternative verdicts being put before the jury. There had been some speculation lawyers for one or both of the boys would ask that the jury be allowed consider a manslaughter verdict as well as the murder verdict. However there was no such application from either party.

However after the jury began deliberations Gageby asked the judge to inform the jury the option of manslaughter was still open to them. McDermott refused following objections from the prosecution.

Oooops!! Guess they forgot to bring it up before the jury went out! What a shame.

threeball · 19-06-2019 04:32PM

Strazdas wrote: »

The fact that A physically attacked Ana virtually the moment she entered the abandoned house (this was the conclusion of the pathologist), makes me think it was a premeditated attack and that she was brought to the house with the intention of something terrible happening to her.

B never credibly explained why she was brought to such a remote location. He didn't even like Ana and wasn't friends with her.

Incidentally, prosecution don't even believe his claim that he left before or during her murder.

Boy A had been contemplating it for 9 months. There was evidence of his search history that wasn't presented in court showing just that.

Dante7 · 19-06-2019 04:33PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Is that what Boy B said or is there independent verification of that ?

It's in the section of this article titled Plan, and has been widely reported elsewhere.

https://www.thejournal.ie/who-is-boy-a-ana-kriegel-trial-murder-4650918-Jun2019/

threeball · 19-06-2019 04:35PM

Feisar wrote: »

As someone who came up the line in the old school karate and is saddened to see the watered down kids karate that's being peddled these days I wouldn't put to much store in his skill.

These kids don't train in Karate, its mostly MMA and they're lethal. They'd knock the snot out of someone with a Karate background old school or not.

retro:electro · 19-06-2019 04:36PM

evolving_doors wrote: »

Boy b was fleeing from a murder, but don't forget boy b was fleeing from a murderer too.

If you think about it, there probably was, in boy b's mind, a strong possibility that they wouldn't get caught. So he knew what boy a could do. Did he know he'd have the protection of the law against boy A if he told the truth? I think he was scared.

The only thing he was scared of was the guards finding out the truth. Scared? He showed remarkable arrogance and detachment from reality throughout being questioned. When he wasn’t lying through his teeth he was yawning, stretching and treating an extremely serious situation as a massive inconvenience. What 13 year old who is “scared” of another 13 year old, acts in such arrogance and apathy when being questioned by authorities in a murder case? Scared me hole

mightybashful · 19-06-2019 04:37PM

Dante7 wrote: »

Boy A: Hey, wanna kill somebody?’.
Boy B: No.
Boy A ‘Ah, here. Why not’.
Boy B: Because it’s retarded. Who are you planning to kill?
Boy A: ‘Ana Kriegel’.
Boy B: In your dreams.

A month later Boy B lured Anna to meet Boy A. Guilty. End of.

This exactly. B is every bit as guilty of murder as the other one

GarIT · 19-06-2019 04:37PM

I think some anti-bullying self protection sensibilities need to be taught in school too.

If anyone remembers years ago there were three suicides within a short period related to ask.fm where people answer anonymous questions that are asked of them.

If anyone remembers Anna's YouTube channel she sometimes did live videos where she answered anonymous questions on video, a google search search shows news articles saying she performed dares given by anonymous people live. She also did her her, makeup and tried on clothes live. Obviously she was innocently trying to make friends or get attention but I've seen so many kids doing this and it opens themselves up to bullying so badly. It's not her fault in the slightest, but kids need to know not to make themselves vlunerable like that.

Often teens don't use the block feature either. Every website has a block feature but people blocking their bullies is rare.

Feisar · 19-06-2019 04:39PM

threeball wrote: »

These kids don't train in Karate, its mostly MMA and they're lethal. They'd knock the snot out of someone with a Karate background old school or not.

Done my share of that as well but that's neither here nor there. Body weight counts for an awful lot, a skilled 13 year old is still 13. It was the same back in the 70's when the Kung Fu craze came in newspaper headings, this 13 year olds hands can kill. Eh no they can't.

tuxy · 19-06-2019 04:39PM

evolving_doors wrote: »

Boy b was fleeing from a murder, but don't forget boy b was fleeing from a murderer too.

If you think about it, there probably was, in boy b's mind, a strong possibility that they wouldn't get caught. So he knew what boy a could do. Did he know he'd have the protection of the law against boy A if he told the truth? I think he was scared.

The Jury and Garda saw hours of interviews with boy B and came to the conclusion that boy B was calm, calculating and manipulative not scared.

19-06-2019 04:39PM

Dante7 wrote: »

Boy A: Hey, wanna kill somebody?’.
Boy B: No.
Boy A ‘Ah, here. Why not’.
Boy B: Because it’s retarded. Who are you planning to kill?
Boy A: ‘Ana Kriegel’.
Boy B: In your dreams.

A month later Boy B lured Anna to meet Boy A. Guilty. End of.

It really is that simple.

I know there was a discussion on this thread through the night about Boy B saying in an interview that he thought Boy A was joking but I don’t believe that. If he remembered the conversation whilst being interviewed he remembered the conversation when he went to know on Ana’s door.

This was Boy B’s way of pinning it all on Boy A. His lack of emotion and disdain for Ana shows us what we need to know. Don’t need a psychologist (whose services were to the defence side) to tell me different. Having raised two teenagers myself, I know a tall tale when I hear it.

SirGerryAdams · 19-06-2019 04:43PM

Boy B had to be involved.

Maybe some people are different but let's say I was a kid and I was asked to bring someone to a house for a shift or whatever.

The second I discover that the boy you lured her to killed her I would be ****ting it and I'd be telling exactly what happened.

His calmness and lies would tell me that he knew.

Stheno · 19-06-2019 04:45PM

Facebook and Twitter in court tomorrow over publishing of images

Beechwoodspark · 19-06-2019 04:48PM

Dante7 wrote: »

It's in the section of this article titled Plan, and has been widely reported elsewhere.

https://www.thejournal.ie/who-is-boy-a-ana-kriegel-trial-murder-4650918-Jun2019/

I think it’s his version. Not verified.

Open to correction.

Boggles · 19-06-2019 04:48PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

His defence could have put it that he was led by and influenced by boy A. In that scenario, convicting a 13 year old of murder would have been extremely difficult.

That literally was his defense.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It was his lying that got him convicted.

The judge spent a whole day pointing out, lying does not mean he is guilty of murder.

MrMusician18 · 19-06-2019 04:50PM

Stheno wrote: »

Facebook and Twitter in court tomorrow over publishing of images

Great. Finally these cesspits will have to take responsibility for what goes on in their platform.

A couple of senior managers in prison for contempt for a few days might be no harm at all.

Shemale · 19-06-2019 04:50PM

Boggles wrote: »

Or he could have been killed with her.

Boy A was a big lad apparently and given the evidence a massive lunatic.

Homemade murder mask and knee pads?

Torture movies and animal porn?

He tore into her like an absolute deranged animal, she had 60 different wounds. Her clothes were torn to pieces.

Yeah, I don't think it is a stretch to suggest Boy B may have been scared of him.

Ana was physically imposing too and she was fighting but didnt have weapons, not too many 14 year olds could handle two people attacking them, B could have grabbed a stick too.

Two deranged individuals and a poor innocent girl suffering at their hands.

You seem to have a love in with B, when he gets out why not let him bring some young woman in your family to an abandoned house if he is so sweetness and light.

Shemale · 19-06-2019 04:51PM

Hoboo wrote: »

Boy B who's into Lego and transformers stops boy A who's into aggressive hardcore porn, hockey masks, and knowingly wants to harm people?

Sounds like a more gentle/weaker boy who's afraid of his life of a little psycho.

Can see boy B appealing and walking.

Zero evidence he was at the scene when she was actually killed, and other than hanging himself by saying boy A told him he wanted to kill Anna, surely thats not enough? Couldnt count on two hands the amount of times I heard blah blah wanted to kill someone when I was a kid, but they never went and did it!

Boy B also had a mobile phone....

"
Sounds like a more gentle/weaker boy who's afraid of his life of a little psycho." You mean his "best friend"?

Larbre34 · 19-06-2019 04:52PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Don't know if it's been posted already but noticed this on the lengthy Irish Times article

Oooops!! Guess they forgot to bring it up before the jury went out! What a shame.

That could have been argued by Counsel in the absence of the jury at any time, even after they went out to deliberate.

There are loads of examples of juries being out for prolonged periods and being brought back in to offer alternative verdicts if consensus is not being reached.

19-06-2019 04:52PM

Gonna ask again as it has been overlooked.

What is the full story with the stick Boy B was talking about?

Boggles · 19-06-2019 04:54PM

Shemale wrote: »

Ana was physically imposing too and she was fighting but didnt have weapons, not too many 14 year olds could handle two people attacking them, B could have grabbed a stick too.

Two deranged individuals and a poor innocent girl suffering at their hands.

You seem to have a love in with B, when he gets out why not let him bring some young woman in your family to an abandoned house if he is so sweetness and light.

Jesus, you just went full Daily Mail, well done.

:rolleyes:

Shemale · 19-06-2019 04:58PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote:

The Irish times piece is long but great journalism. Boy A had said that he wanted to kill someone weeks ago to Boy B.

IIRC Boy B said Boy A said he wanted to kill Ana a month before and Boy B still brought her to an abandonded house to meet A

mrjoneill · 19-06-2019 05:00PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Hearbreaking, beautiful looking girl too, was surprised that she was such a loner - jealousy perhaps from other girls ?

Kids can be such cruel cruel c*nts...

Yes indeed there are many to answer outside of the convicted killers for her isolation. Her National school saw her vulnerability & immaturity & asked her secondary school to take this on board. It would appear this did not happen till it became an overt issue. The were then chasing an issue which they should have been proactive as they were forewarned. Her peers have so much on their conscious that inc boys & girls. It would seem most girls were jealous of her good looks & the boys saw her as for having sex with. It would seem both Boy A & Boy B zoned into this vulnerability & there is no doubt the luring of her to the remote house was for to attack her. And Boys A attire was for an extremely serious assault if not worse. As for Boy B he believed he would not be recognized & their crime would be untraceable. Boy B also carried a rucksack on his back, have not heard an explanation for it. Its a lesson for all parents the need for ever vigilance.

Dante7 · 19-06-2019 05:01PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I think it’s his version. Not verified.

Open to correction.

What do you mean not verified? It's from Boy B's statement. He admitted it himself. He admitted that he knew Boy A wanted to kill Anna and he went on to lure Anna to a derelict building where he knew Boy A was waiting.

19-06-2019 05:02PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Great. Finally these cesspits will have to take responsibility for what goes on in their platform.

A couple of senior managers in prison for contempt for a few days might be no harm at all.

Disagree 100 percent.

I would be putting up posters with these brats images everywhere.

All bets are off if you murder someone horrifically, as these 2 did.

You are not entitled to play the 'im a child' card.

19-06-2019 05:04PM

Did boy B bring the backpack to the park when he collected Ana or was it before.

If he brought it with him, then he surely would have seen A getting geared up at some stage

shutup · 19-06-2019 05:05PM

Necro wrote: »

Normal is stealing a few penny sweets from the counter and learning from it.

Torturing and murdering a three year old child is not normal at any age.

Jesus Christ. You just don’t get it.

flos1964 · 19-06-2019 05:06PM

One of the things that i find hard to stomach is that surely someone noticed the isolation of this girl or overheard there little darlings talking about her yet never moved to help her...i mean it was bullying on a grand scale and was allowed to continue on and on...they say it takes a village to rear a child...well that village can collectively hang there heads in shame tonight.

_blaaz · 19-06-2019 05:06PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Disagree 100 percent.

I would be putting up posters with these brats images everywhere.

All bets are off if you murder someone horrifically, as these 2 did.

You are not entitled to play the 'im a child' card.

I would think hes argueing a broader point of holding someone responsible for the toxicity of social media vs this particular case

SirGerryAdams · 19-06-2019 05:07PM

So how did the tape come into it? Boy A starts hitting her with sticks etc.

She must have been knocked to the ground when he started sexually assaulting her so why would he use tape then?

I would hazard a guess and say her clothes were ripped off because he had battered and beaten her to a pulp and needed to rip them off to get them off.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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