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Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 RiCriostoir


    And to hear Mr. Gagebys last question to Ana's mother was to ask her to confirm that she had told the Gardai she found a condom under her daughters pillow, the week before her disappearance is absolutely disgraceful and he should be brought up on this. That even the slightest bit of interest or curious about sex and their sexuality can people some partial blame to the victim...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 128 ✭✭nehemiah


    theguzman wrote: »
    The move away from the Death Penalty worldwide was driven by Left Wing politicians since their murdering supporters kept getting executed for their crimes. Franco, Mussolini, Pinochet etc. all executed thousands of communists for their attempts to overthrow civil society. The Left would rather society become Somalia rather than bring back the Death Penalty because they know Conservatives will gladly use it against them.

    The UK will bring back the death penalty with a hard brexit looming and free of Brussels law you can see hanging being restored there in the next ten years.

    Good point, lefty communist countries like the USSR and China hate(d) the death penalty and refuse(d) to execute anyone, the cuck snowflakes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,428 ✭✭✭✭gimli2112


    and the ones found innocent after multiple appeals? what about them? they're just collateral damage?
    I'm not a fan of the death penalty, my point was it's flawed if it kills innocent people at all
    paradoxically I have no issue with putting the guilty to death it's just the fact that not everyone found guilty actually is but that's a general comment not specific to this case


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Not surprising unfortunately. Most 11 year olds have watched inappropriate material on the net and have seen countless videos where women are degraded and described as s**ts.

    Young innocent minds being corrupted and thinking this is how we treat women.
    What about all those films where "Stepmom" takes advantage of the stepson while Dad is away on a business trip?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    They were found guilty of terrorism and murder. At the sentencing of the Birmingham Six, the judge bemoaned that the death penalty wasn't an option to him and if it was, they'd have been executed.

    And the state had evidence that they were not guilty, but witheld it. The judge did not know this.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,518 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Who said anything about releasing them?

    So locking an innocent person up for life is better than sentencing them to death?

    I'd rather be dead than in a cell for the rest of my days, you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,308 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    How often do we have a crime like this one in Ireland?? There is literally zero chance it wasn't these two scumbags. Unless you think they have been framed??

    Enough so that we would more than likely end up executing somebody innocent. and you are asking for the execution of children. that puts you into a very select group that i would not want to be a part of.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    If capital punishment existed in the UK at the time they would have been executed.

    Do you believe the state has withheld evidence of the boys innocence in the case we are talking about in this thread??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,308 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    And the state had evidence that they were not guilty, but witheld it. The judge did not know this.

    and yet despite this you are still in favour of the death penalty.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,014 ✭✭✭Feisar


    And to hear Mr. Gagebys last question to Ana's mother was to ask her to confirm that she had told the Gardai she found a condom under her daughters pillow, the week before her disappearance is absolutely disgraceful and he should be brought up on this. That even the slightest bit of interest or curious about sex and their sexuality can people some partial blame to the victim...

    I'm sure it was done in the hope that some in the jury would think of Ana Kriegel as a slut who was asking for it. Leading on the poor boys who wanted Lego. Man was just doing his job, mounting the best defense he could.

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    And the state had evidence that they were not guilty, but witheld it. The judge did not know this.


    They still would have been executed though wouldn't they?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    On the contrary I should think that that is exactly what our tax money is for.

    Tax write-offs for corporations is what you should be angry about.

    A false dilemma. Also if we didn’t have low tax for corporations then we would have less money to throw around on other stuff, if they left.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭theguzman


    nehemiah wrote: »
    Good point, lefty communist countries like the USSR and China hate(d) the death penalty and refuse(d) to execute anyone, the cuck snowflakes.

    Leftwing social democratic parties across Europe I was alluding to, you know the leftist SJW types who hate their own countries. The Macrons and Jeremy Corbyns of this world.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,092 ✭✭✭optogirl


    Feisar wrote: »
    The hugs and kisses brigade need to realize that they're part of the problem regarding violence in society.

    So you think these boys have had too many hugs in their lives? I doubt it somehow


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,955 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    And to hear Mr. Gagebys last question to Ana's mother was to ask her to confirm that she had told the Gardai she found a condom under her daughters pillow, the week before her disappearance is absolutely disgraceful and he should be brought up on this. That even the slightest bit of interest or curious about sex and their sexuality can people some partial blame to the victim...


    Don't forget Mr. Gagebys is working for the defendant so if the boys or the parents knew about this they may have pressed him in to bringing it up or maybe he done it himself , we don't know


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    Feisar wrote: »
    The hugs and kisses brigade need to realize that they're part of the problem regarding violence in society.


    Sick burn and all, but it's not an either-or choice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    And the state had evidence that they were not guilty, but witheld it. The judge did not know this.

    Doesn't matter, they'd still be dead if you had your way and execution was an option.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    theguzman wrote: »
    Leftwing social democratic parties across Europe I was alluding to, you know the leftist SJW types who hate their own countries. The Macrons and Jeremy Corbyns of this world.


    Can you have a bit of decency and not try push that agenda in this thread? No different to Coppinger and her blaming capitalism.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 258 ✭✭AAAAAAAAA


    theguzman wrote: »
    The move away from the Death Penalty worldwide was driven by Left Wing politicians since their murdering supporters kept getting executed for their crimes. Franco, Mussolini, Pinochet etc. all executed thousands of communists for their attempts to overthrow civil society. The Left would rather society become Somalia rather than bring back the Death Penalty because they know Conservatives will gladly use it against them.

    Why are you framing the people trying to overthrow brutal dictators as the bad guys?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    theguzman wrote: »
    Leftwing social democratic parties across Europe I was alluding to, you know the leftist SJW types who hate their own countries. The Macrons and Jeremy Corbyns of this world.

    FFS Macron is not Left Wing at all.

    He is a corporatist, neo-liberal shill.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 128 ✭✭nehemiah


    Do you believe the state has withheld evidence of the boys innocence in the case we are talking about in this thread??

    State withholding evidence is not the only way a miscarriage of justice can take place.

    Even now there is some legitimate doubt about the level of involvement of Boy B. We can all have a 'gut feeling' that he was involved more than he says he was and it's clear that he lied in his interviews but there's little more than that to go on.


  • Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That screwdriver killer scumbag was apparently drinking and taking drugs all day. He was provoked and amplified by having heard his father was in a row.
    there was an altercation which finished in 2 young foreign me being brutally stabbed in the head with one blow! he should have the key thrown away but you can see how drink, drugs and generally being a dirt bag, were factors.

    Now cut to these two..No drink...No drugs.. No call to arms in effort to aid a friend, sibling etc, so no real rush of blood to the head! They planned all of this and what's more, carried it out to completion.. inflicting over 50 injuries, any of which could have killed her, not to mention everything that happened after.
    what they did was actually worse as they're younger and yet showed more hatred and evil towards a young girl than anyone would ever see in any film.

    A so called child would lose the nerve maybe at the point when Ana showed. This is horrendous on an international scale, they're not children at all. Even when you skip an ATM que, it feels bad cos you know it's wrong. the judge will convict, the public will move on and with the passage of time, they'll be out in ten years easily because he's retired and the new guy is familiar with but not interested in seeing it followed through.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭brendanwalsh


    They are being named on twitter and pictures shared and you can't blame people for doing so.

    They are two psychopaths and public safety is needed.


  • Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So many heart punches while reading Conor Gallagher's summation of the case and trying to focus on the mindset of the murderers and the victim, but reading about Ana the person gives you a glimpse of just what was lost...

    We can say a lot more about Ana Kriégel. Her mother said she was a girl who loved to dance. She was part of the Leixlip based troupe Dance LA, whose members, decked in red headscarves and silver sequins formed a guard of honour at her funeral. Ana “spent hours in our front room, listening to music, practising her moves,” her mother said.

    We can say Ana was a great singer and wanted to learn how to play guitar. We can say her Siberian strength and height made her an incredible swimmer. We can say that she loved to volunteer for things and shortly before her death Ana agreed to model in a fashion show organised by older classmates to raise money for charity.

    Ana never lost touch with her Russian roots. A Russian flag and a matryoshka doll were placed on her coffin. Geraldine and Patric had announced their adoption of Ana in 2006 by handing their friends a similar doll containing her picture.

    We can say she also loved her holidays to France, symbolised by the presence of a miniature Eiffel Tower on her coffin.

    And we can say Ana loved her family dearly and was loved dearly in return. We can say she was someone who, as her funeral heard, was never happier than when she was curled up with her mother on a Sunday “watching some beautiful fairytale princess movie while munching her favourite food, popcorn”.

    Creative, a singer, dancer, swimmer, tall and aerobic, outgoing, already had a fondness for international travel, was much loved and supported by her parents - She had as bright a future ahead of her as she wanted, the world was her oyster, once she got through some really tough formative years in 'the schoolyard'.

    It's a modern worry and growing problem that school-related bullying now goes well beyond the schoolyard. FFS, even before she went into 1st year, Ana already had 3rd year students bullying her online. Hopefully Ana's plight brings this wholly toxic mixture of the old (bullying) and the new (social media) into national light and discourse where it can be addressed and looked towards dealing with.

    Now, one can say that we we've always lived in harsh times, and modern Ireland is built on the blood of those who died in a relatively recent civil war and the even more recent Troubles, so no I'm not saying at all that the country is going to fúck lately. However, there was a very fúcked up two weeks in our recent history with three random violent murders to young people in May 2018 - Ana Kriégel, Cameron Reilly and Jastine Valdez.

    Not to take anything away from the plights of other victims of tragedies, murders and avoidable suicides (those poor Gallagher sisters and family in Donegal for example) but those three murders in such a short time-span really rang out to me at the time and I've kept up with any progress in their cases since then. Two of those victims were lured to their ends and the other was abducted. Thankfully justice has been served in two out of three, and there is a suspect going to trial soon for the third.

    Still, someday it would be nice to know the 'How?' behind such cases. How can young people commit such violent acts? How is there not a moment where a conscience and inner voice screams to you "Wait...WTF am I doing here?" How are these kids so desensitised to extreme violence and devoid of the notion of empathy or consequence? How can they have a "murder kit" and a plan to use it on anyone let alone someone who did them no harm?

    Outside of all the above - Our Gardai as an organisation have no shortage of negative headlines and opinion in this day and age, but when they're very good they are the best. Thinking back to the Graham Dwyer case and how that was solved, looking at the work they did to get Ana's murderers brought to justice here. Not just the detectives in high profile cases, I myself needed some minor assistance recently and rank and file officers were on the scene well within 10 minutes.

    This is the most tragic and possibly most horrific murder case I've read about within my lifetime in Ireland. I really hope Ana didn't go through all that torment and bullying and then meet such a gruesome and lonely end for nothing. I know that we can't force all of our kids to be friends with all other kids and love everyone else equally, but surely there has to be some way to minimise bullying and promote empathy. The 'Sure it happens, what can you do?' approach isn't working with bullying. That's the way it was handled when I was a kid back in the 80s/90s, and likely long before I was a kid as well. It isn't working, and in recent years you now have cases like Ana and the Gallagher sisters in Donegal who were plagued night and day beyond the schoolyard courtesy of social media. It has to be time to at least talk about a different way to tackle this.

    RIP Ana Kriégel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    and yet despite this you are still in favour of the death penalty.

    I don't believe that the state would withhold evidence in this jurisdiction. The British Establishment was under severe pressure to find IRA bombers to calm public terror. Different times. But you know all of this already, don't you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭Lackadaisical


    All this talk of the death penalty is reactionary nonsense. We abolished it completely by firstly not using it for many years, then by legislation and ultimately by referendum and constitutional amendment. It's also a criteria of membership of the EU and Council of Europe.

    We don't have the death penalty because we're are better than that.

    It's both risky in terms of potentially executing someone after a miscarriage of justice and that can't be undone. It debases and demeans society. We have to be better than killing people.

    For all the angry talk that goes on in discussion forums, it would be carried out in the name of the people. So we the people would be killing people - in my view is you do that you lose your moral high ground. Also someone has to actually do it. In the early years of the state when we still actively sued capital punishment there was no hangman as nobody would do the job.

    Justice has to be delivered calmly and dispassionately. It's not about reactionary vengeance no matter how angry and sickened we might be by a crime it's not about exacting medieval revenge.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 124 ✭✭Gerianam


    Parents need to be parents. Our fourteen year old son, has access to his phone for one hour after dinner, he does not ask for any more because he knows it will not happen. Yesterday, he mowed his granny's front lawn and back garden, she gave him 10 euro. He bought sweets for himself and his little sister. I cannot underdstand how kids are allowed to have access depravity on line. The world is gone crazy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,308 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I don't believe that the state would withhold evidence in this jurisdiction. The British Establishment was under severe pressure to find IRA bombers to calm public terror. Different times. But you know all of this already, don't you.

    well then you are incredibly naive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    I wonder how much Ana Kriegel's social isolation made A and B feel that they had a licence to what whatever they wanted with her.
    Oh definitely a big part I think. As someone else said, she was dehumanised by then.
    They want two 14 year olds killed though.
    But two 14/15 year olds who sexually assaulted and degraded and butchered someone to death... for nothing. So it's not really ironic. One was for zero reason, the other would be for a reason - the hypothetical victims' own evil deeds, unlike Ana, who was innocent.

    Now in all seriousness, while I wouldn't give a sh1t, frankly, if a member of Ana's family took the law into their own hands, I don't actually agree with the state having that power and someone's comment that a tiny few wrongfully convicted to death would be worth it, is sheer lunacy... it is just words on the internet though, in a fog of understandable anger and sadness and frustration. Just words on the internet. Not actually happening.

    But Ana's murder really happened, and that's what the horrifying thing is. Not revenge fantasies (in the form of words only) on the internet. I'd be miles and miles more concerned about the former.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    MrFresh wrote: »
    They still would have been executed though wouldn't they?

    No, because the charges that the state tried them under charges that didn't carry the death sentence!! The (British) state that withheld the evidence of their innocence was the same (British) state that filed the charges against them. They knew they couldn't face execution. It's hardly rocket science is it???


This discussion has been closed.
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