Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

nehemiah · 19-06-2019 10:46AM

tuxy wrote: »

There is no forensics for him, his constant lies and backtracking in interviews is what got him convicted. The jury requested to watch all these interviews which is unusual(it takes up so much court time) . Usually they just get to hear the reports read to them.

Not quite, the prosecution presented videos of these interviews to the jury in order to allow the jury to see the boy's demeanour, which is unusual for the reasons you state.

The jury requested to re-watch the videos during their deliberations.

Only other evidence really was him collecting Anna and the CCTV placing him with her in the park.

theguzman · 19-06-2019 10:46AM

I have always favoured the death penalty and age should be no barrier to it, both of these inhuman pieces of filth should be strung from the gallows. If I was that poor girls parent I would exact my revenge on them both, because thanks to our leftwing policing and justice system they will be out in less than 5 years. You only get life in Ireland if you kill a politician or Garda.

RandomName2 · 19-06-2019 10:46AM

I wonder how much Ana Kriegel's social isolation made A and B feel that they had a licence to what whatever they wanted with her.

weldoninhio · 19-06-2019 10:47AM

Deleted User wrote: »

When these boys are released I don’t want them to pose a further danger to society, insofar as this can be prevented. My Pollyanna dream would be that prison would offer them the following:

1. Reinforcement that what they did was at the extreme end of being wrong and that’s why they are there.

2. The possibility of being able to be a much better person in the future and that restitution can be made.

3. To learn the rights of all humans and living beings, including themselves, matched with responsibilities.

4. To gain insights into what it is like to walk in other people’s shoes.

5 To gain an education so that they might be self-supporting in the future, or at least have a more rounded view of the world and an aspiration to learn more.

6 To get whatever psychological or medical help that might help to prevent them reoffending, To learn to be able to desist and deflect from perversion to sexual violence.

All that is an enormous ask of prison, educational and social services. They would need to know of role models of people who have transformed their lives from sexual violence, and they are thin enough on the ground. I’m guessing the families might not have too many good role models amongst their males.

Otherwise one or both of these boys will be a further significant danger to society when they are released, and indeed be in danger of their own lives if anyone gives a fcuk about the latter.

There is little way they will escape attention when they are released, other inmates will leak it out when they too get out. Ireland is too small a country to change identity without somebody getting word, and Britain will probably be out with Brexit etc. if one or both are from other European countries maybe they could merge into those societies with maybe a head start on language from parents etc.

We have different views of punishment of this type of crime. Mine a a lot more succinct.

1. Bullet.
2. Rope.

nehemiah · 19-06-2019 10:47AM

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Strange then, so basically if he no commented he would have got off. I'd say he may have a shot in a retrial if there is no forensic on him.

But I also seen someone say he had blood on his shoes?

Nope, that was Boy A

19-06-2019 10:48AM

There names will be out in the open soon. Ireland isn't a big country and with social media these days things are impossible to keep quiet.

weldoninhio · 19-06-2019 10:48AM

optogirl wrote: »

So many hard men on here wanting to shoot, maim, hang two 13 year olds and in the same breath can't understand how these boys can have been so violent or aggressive. Maybe their Dads were the type to spout about the things the'yd like to do to anyone who they didn't agree with/like.

These boys deserve their punishment, no doubt about it and as a society we have some serious issues to deal with with regard to internet access, smartphones, porn, bullying and all the rest but to bang on about how they should be kept in isolation and shot on their 18th birthday is absurd and the very type of institutional criminality that has led to the epidemic of mental ill health in this country.

Cool story bro. :rolleyes:

19-06-2019 10:49AM

theguzman wrote: »

I have always favoured the death penalty and age should be no barrier to it, both of these inhuman pieces of filth should be strung from the gallows. If I was that poor girls parent I would exact my revenge on them both, because thanks to our leftwing policing and justice system they will be out in less than 5 years. You only get life in Ireland if you kill a politician or Garda.

A quick death? That's the easy way out.

Fair play on the keyboard warrior skills though!

Somedaythefire · 19-06-2019 10:49AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

We have different views of punishment of this type of crime. Mine a a lot more succinct.

1. Bullet.
2. Rope.

Do you not see the irony in this?

Penn · 19-06-2019 10:49AM

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Strange then, so basically if he no commented he would have got off. I'd say he may have a shot in a retrial if there is no forensic on him.

But I also seen someone say he had blood on his shoes?

No blood on his shoes, that was Boy A. Doubt he'd have much of a shot in a retrial though. They can't get a retrial unless there was a procedural error as far as I know, and the interviews were already examined to make sure the detectives interviewing him carried them out in accordance with the rules, which they did.

MrFresh · 19-06-2019 10:50AM

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Strange then, so basically if he no commented he would have got off. I'd say he may have a shot in a retrial if there is no forensic on him.

But I also seen someone say he had blood on his shoes?

There has to be a reason for an appeal. You can't just do it for the sake of it.

20silkcut · 19-06-2019 10:50AM

RandomName2 wrote: »

I wonder how much Ana Kriegel's social isolation made A and B feel that they had a licence to what whatever they wanted with her.

Bullying is a shocking curse on anyone.
Hopefully all those who engaged in will have a long hard look at themselves.

Feisar · 19-06-2019 10:51AM

optogirl wrote: »

So many hard men on here wanting to shoot, maim, hang two 13 year olds and in the same breath can't understand how these boys can have been so violent or aggressive. Maybe their Dads were the type to spout about the things the'yd like to do to anyone who they didn't agree with/like.

These boys deserve their punishment, no doubt about it and as a society we have some serious issues to deal with with regard to internet access, smartphones, porn, bullying and all the rest but to bang on about how they should be kept in isolation and shot on their 18th birthday is absurd and the very type of institutional criminality that has led to the epidemic of mental ill health in this country.

Nothing at all about being hard, I want them removed from society, if we had the tech to freeze them forever like in Minority Report that'd be grand. Unfortunately we don't, solitary till they die seems cruel, bullet is really the best option for everyone. A poster above goes on about rehabilitation to ensure they don't re-offend. If only there was a way to ensure this...

19-06-2019 10:53AM

optogirl wrote: »

So many hard men on here wanting to shoot, maim, hang two 13 year olds and in the same breath can't understand how these boys can have been so violent or aggressive. Maybe their Dads were the type to spout about the things the'yd like to do to anyone who they didn't agree with/like.

just to be clear

your point about how people should be allowed to express themselves on message boards depends upon equating the premeditated sexual assault and brutal murder of a 14 year old girl with the phrase something you "dont agree with/like"

just to be clear, like

joe40 · 19-06-2019 10:53AM

theguzman wrote: »

I have always favoured the death penalty and age should be no barrier to it, both of these inhuman pieces of filth should be strung from the gallows. If I was that poor girls parent I would exact my revenge on them both, because thanks to our leftwing policing and justice system they will be out in less than 5 years. You only get life in Ireland if you kill a politician or Garda.

Ireland's justice system is similar to most of western world, excluding America. We're not going back to capital punishment anytime soon.

Some people would appear to prefer Saudi Arabia type justice, or something out of the middle ages.

Lucuma · 19-06-2019 10:54AM

Very glad the jury were brave enough to convict Boy B. RTE news yesterday showed visual of the park and the derelict house. He took her on a 3km journey including across farmer's fields (private property). She was an extremely tall, athletic, healthy and strong girl. The element of surprise would have been key in bringing her down. That was what Boy B provided. He must have told her 'go into that house there now and Boy A is waiting for you'. He must have told her which specific room to go into in the house to make sure that Boy A could come up behind her and overpower her. He knew he wasn't taking a vulnerable girl who he himself described as a weirdo cross country on a 3km ramble and sending her into a disgusting falling down dangerous old ruin so she could have something nice happen to her like! He knew damn well what was going to happen to her. And so he is guilty of murder.

The whole thing wouldnt' have been possible without Boy B. He played a crucial role. He was central to the murder even though he didnt' physically lift a finger, so he is guilty

Reading the Irish Times article I saw something I had seen mentioned on reddit when the boys were first arrested but never seen since and had hoped it wasn't true

'Other injuries suggested there had been penetration or attempted penetration of the vagina with something but Cassidy could not determine what that something was. She also couldn’t tell if Ana had been conscious at the time.'

So that's why it was aggrevated sexual assault as opposed to rape. To be honest I don't understand how Boy A has had not just his parents but both his grandfathers in with him every day and also yesterday. There's nothing to love about him? Nothing

weldoninhio · 19-06-2019 10:55AM

Somedaythefire wrote: »

Do you not see the irony in this?

If a dog bites someone what happens to the dog?? Cheaper to get rid. They don't deserve life.

Fan of Netflix · 19-06-2019 10:55AM

Penn wrote: »

No blood on his shoes, that was Boy A. Doubt he'd have much of a shot in a retrial though. They can't get a retrial unless there was a procedural error as far as I know, and the interviews were already examined to make sure the detectives interviewing him carried them out in accordance with the rules, which they did.

So basically he lured her to the warehouse where he knew she would likely be killed, watched it unfold then ****ed off and said nothing then lied about it all and changed his story a lot in interview.

But he didn't actually physically kill or even touch her. He pretty much talked his way into a conviction if so. Can imagine he will appeal the sentence though.

Dontfadeaway · 19-06-2019 10:56AM

Their images are being shared. Can't people get in trouble for that?

19-06-2019 10:56AM

joe40 wrote: »

Ireland's justice system is similar to most of western world, excluding America. We're not going back to capital punishment anytime soon.

Some people would appear to prefer Saudi Arabia type justice, or something out of the middle ages.

other people want to bundle a low barrier of proof and rights of accused to fair trial with what punishment society can enact thereafter

that doesnt need to be bundled, and to conflate the two is of course a political position

Somedaythefire · 19-06-2019 10:56AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

If a dog bites someone what happens to the dog?? Cheaper to get rid. They don't deserve life.

We're not talking about dogs though. Do you see the irony in what you're saying?

tuxy · 19-06-2019 10:57AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

We have different views of punishment of this type of crime. Mine a a lot more succinct.

1. Bullet.
2. Rope.

Countries that have violent punisment tends to breed more violent crinmials. I understand that such punishment would make you happy but it's a big price to pay just for your pleasure.

Former Observer · 19-06-2019 10:57AM

A lot of anger on here. I would agree with the previous poster that said principle punishment of prison is in the denial of freedom. Apart from this I believe inmates should be able to live with a certain degree of dignity. Access to books. Controlled access to media. Controlled access to exercise equipment. Simple but nutritious food etc.

You can judge a society by how they treat their prisoners.

That said. I wouldn't let either of them step outside a prison for twenty years minimum.

Very sad story anyway.

super_furry · 19-06-2019 10:58AM

Dontfadeaway wrote: »

Their images are being shared. Can't people get in trouble for that?

Absolutely. One of them was named on Red FM this morning too, so I imagine they're going to be in a whole heap of trouble.

Sunflower 27 · 19-06-2019 10:58AM

Lucuma wrote: »

Very glad the jury were brave enough to convict Boy B. RTE news yesterday showed visual of the park and the derelict house. He took her on a 3km journey including across farmer's fields (private property). She was an extremely tall, athletic, healthy and strong girl. The element of surprise would have been key in bringing her down. That was what Boy B provided. He must have told her 'go into that house there now and Boy A is waiting for you'. He must have told her which specific room to go into in the house to make sure that Boy A could come up behind her and overpower her. He knew he wasn't taking a vulnerable girl who he himself described as a weirdo cross country on a 3km ramble and sending her into a disgusting falling down dangerous old ruin so she could have something nice happen to her like! He knew damn well what was going to happen to her. And so he is guilty of murder.

The whole thing wouldnt' have been possible without Boy B. He played a crucial role. He was central to the murder even though he didnt' physically lift a finger, so he is guilty

Reading the Irish Times article I saw something I had seen mentioned on reddit when the boys were first arrested but never seen since and had hoped it wasn't true

'Other injuries suggested there had been penetration or attempted penetration of the vagina with something but Cassidy could not determine what that something was. She also couldn’t tell if Ana had been conscious at the time.'

So that's why it was aggrevated sexual assault as opposed to rape. To be honest I don't understand how Boy A has had not just his parents but both his grandfathers in with him every day and also yesterday. There's nothing to love about him? Nothing

Boy B knew a 5'8" tall girl would need to be taken down quickly and by surprise . He led her to the 'martial arts expert' who was waiting

Feisar · 19-06-2019 10:58AM

Somedaythefire wrote: »

We're not talking about dogs though. Do you see the irony in what you're saying?

No irony, the poster didn't kill a little girl.

Somedaythefire · 19-06-2019 10:59AM

Feisar wrote: »

No irony, the poster didn't kill a little girl.

They want two 14 year olds killed though.

weldoninhio · 19-06-2019 10:59AM

Somedaythefire wrote: »

We're not talking about dogs though. Do you see the irony in what you're saying?

None at all. The punishment should match the crime. Why should the taxpayer, including Ana's mother and father have to pay for the upkeep of the pondscum that did this to their daughter??

GarIT · 19-06-2019 11:00AM

Dontfadeaway wrote: »

Their images are being shared. Can't people get in trouble for that?

Yes, a possible prison sentence for anyone caught. If you have evidence of it happening call the Gardaí non emergency number.

weldoninhio · 19-06-2019 11:01AM

tuxy wrote: »

Countries that have violent punisment tends to breed more violent crinmials. I understand that such punishment would make you happy but it's a big price to pay just for your pleasure.

There is a 0% recidivism rate for people who receive the death sentence.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Comments