Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

weldoninhio · 19-06-2019 10:26AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

We'll, they do have the right to anonymity. That's clear. The law is taking care of them and that's you or I need to know.

If mobs want to attack the lads then they're making criminals of themselves.

Not sure if I have linked it right, but this is the "law taking care of them" in Ireland.

https://www.facebook.com/TheCapitalPage/posts/2414981111856189?__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARDywmbDRrk1dKoNJw2Ur1Ves1PMpV4bOv-IOT9yU0ihllCW7cVX39Lw0VlnCdJdRhGzn75MOP-IhJvjRiIId6kTacLSN8a2ceFEhbWseNFs5L7c3v21PZ1gmIHDsbL5wjceyESqC__V6E2guOPbd0bgJ7NxbNeRaAIJFRDZz3NO_rPnMJRy_BQo2DbpAyDijSQuROQ4t7tn4LVQnVbispLxy6QYR_UVo3ZhPoMh6pkGcvXfMzqauuDqsBXSIGhmm3iAXd6NKn05u-RUZSXysgTAVsHnuegvt40zhFDZo04zYeTQHm60nS4dHmpMwSeZki_BtYFHEL1ZtiBdz6qphdq-HA&__tn__=K-R"

weldoninhio · 19-06-2019 10:28AM

Boggles wrote: »

The carrot and the stick method in prisons is not just for the prisoners, you do know right?

Oberstown is not a prison. There are no prison officers working in it. It's all social workers and care workers.

Boggles · 19-06-2019 10:30AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Oberstown is not a prison. There are no prison officers working in it. It's all social workers and care workers.

Semantics.

It's the same method.

weldoninhio · 19-06-2019 10:30AM

nehemiah wrote: »

Yeah, and he implicated himself in the crime.

Meanwhile Boy A is sitting there saying "no comment" and denying everything despite his DNA being everywhere. That is cool and collected.

Regardless of his demeanour, Boy B would not be a convicted murderer right now if he had been 'cool and collected' in his police interviews.

No, he is not implicating himself in the crime. He was changing his story, as more evidence (CCTV etc) was presented, to keep himself out of trouble.

joe40 · 19-06-2019 10:30AM

I'm in no way defending boy B, but I was always under the impression you had to actually commit the murder to be found guilty.

Is there any evidence that boy B was in any contact with Ana during her murder? Did he take part in the actual act?

I know he lured her there and witnessed the act and so definitely guilty of a crime.

Obviously the judge and legal teams know a lot more about the law than me but this aspect has confused me.

Again not defending anyone just confused about trial.

Gadgetman496 · 19-06-2019 10:31AM

Can any of you clarify this for me?

How was it initially ascertained that boy 'B' called for Ana?

Was there another family member there to witness this?

Who told Ana's mother when she returned home that Ana had gone off with a boy?

Why was whomever new Ana was gone off with boy 'B' not as instantly concerned as the mother was when she found out?

Beechwoodspark · 19-06-2019 10:31AM

Personally as I have said many times on boards prison is waaaay too soft.

There should be prisons like in the USA.

Let them work from 4 am to 12 midnight day in day out for the whole of their sentence. Boring manual Labour that is of benefit to society.

Life either means firing squad or compromise of full life behind bars.

I doubt any of the mainstream political parties we have would ever ever ever consider it.

weldoninhio · 19-06-2019 10:32AM

Boggles wrote: »

Semantics.

It's the same method.

https://www.facebook.com/TheCapitalPage/posts/2414981111856189?__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARDywmbDRrk1dKoNJw2Ur1Ves1PMpV4bOv-IOT9yU0ihllCW7cVX39Lw0VlnCdJdRhGzn75MOP-IhJvjRiIId6kTacLSN8a2ceFEhbWseNFs5L7c3v21PZ1gmIHDsbL5wjceyESqC__V6E2guOPbd0bgJ7NxbNeRaAIJFRDZz3NO_rPnMJRy_BQo2DbpAyDijSQuROQ4t7tn4LVQnVbispLxy6QYR_UVo3ZhPoMh6pkGcvXfMzqauuDqsBXSIGhmm3iAXd6NKn05u-RUZSXysgTAVsHnuegvt40zhFDZo04zYeTQHm60nS4dHmpMwSeZki_BtYFHEL1ZtiBdz6qphdq-HA&__tn__=K-R

Yeah, this looks like a prison. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Somedaythefire · 19-06-2019 10:33AM

joe40 wrote: »

I'm in no way defending boy B, but I was always under the impression you had to actually commit the murder to be found guilty.

Is there any evidence that boy B was in any contact with Ana during her murder? Did he take part in the actual act?

I know he lured her there and witnessed the act and so definitely guilty of a crime.

Obviously the judge and legal teams know a lot more about the law than me but this aspect has confused me.

Again not defending anyone just confused about trial.

If he knew Boy A was going to kill her, and willingly led Ana to him that's being involved in the murder. I believe there's no such thing as accessory to murder in Irish law, so they are treated the same as the person that did the physical act.

The Iron Giant · 19-06-2019 10:34AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Oberstown is not a prison. There are no prison officers working in it. It's all social workers and care workers.

From the Irish Times on Oberstown

The daily regime unfolds in a more relaxed and less secure setting than an adult prison; one where staff prepare cooked breakfasts for young offenders as treats and where playing video games, watching movies and being given the space and time to take private phone calls is part of the daily regime.

Young people are brought on day trips outside the campus, including swimming and to the cinema, and they also receive pocket money if their behaviour is deemed good enough.
“You have a TV in your bedroom that is turned off at 2am and can be turned back on at 9am,” the information booklet for each offender informs them.

“Your bedroom is locked during the night. However, staff are there during the night if you need them and will check on you during the night to ensure you are OK.”

Each unit on the campus has a lounge area allowing the young people to congregate socially. “Multipurpose rooms” are also included in each unit where young offenders can watch movies, play video games and take phone calls in private.

FFS, sounds like a holiday camp.

Grayson · 19-06-2019 10:34AM

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Can any of you clarify this for me?

How was it initially ascertained that boy 'B' called for Ana?

Was there another family member there to witness this?

Who told Ana's mother when she returned home that Ana had gone off with a boy?

Why was whomever new Ana was gone off with boy 'B' not as instantly concerned as the mother was when she found out?

It was her father. Are you trying to pass some blame onto him?

B_ecke_r · 19-06-2019 10:34AM

joe40 wrote: »

I'm in no way defending boy B, but I was always under the impression you had to actually commit the murder to be found guilty.

No, I don't think so.

IIRC the rider of the bike was done for murder in Veronica Guerin's case and not the one Gardai believe pulled the trigger.

nehemiah · 19-06-2019 10:35AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

No, he is not implicating himself in the crime. He was changing his story, as more evidence (CCTV etc) was presented, to keep himself out of trouble.

There was limited evidence from the CCTV. Without his interviews there was no case against him.

From the IT article:

Compared to Boy A, Boy B’s defence was much easier to predict. There was no forensic evidence linking him to the murder scene. In fact, the vast majority of the evidence against him came from his own mouth during his eight garda interviews. If he had remained silent it is highly likely he would never have been charged.

Turtyturd · 19-06-2019 10:36AM

davyboy1975 wrote: »

Looks like redfm could be in trouble for naming one of the boys this morning.

The Courts accidentally named them in an email a few weeks ago, very surprised it didn’t get out at the time.

Penn · 19-06-2019 10:37AM

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Can any of you clarify this for me?

How was it initially ascertained that boy 'B' called for Ana?

Was there another family member there to witness this?

Who told Ana's mother when she returned home that Ana had gone off with a boy?

Why was whomever new Ana was gone off with boy 'B' not as instantly concerned as the mother was when she found out?

I think Ana told her father she was going out and would be back later. He said she looked happy and so didn't think there was any cause for concern. I think after she was spotted with Boy B on CCTV in the area. I can't remember if the father knew specifically she went with Boy B or not.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 19-06-2019 10:39AM

joe40 wrote: »

I'm in no way defending boy B, but I was always under the impression you had to actually commit the murder to be found guilty.

Is there any evidence that boy B was in any contact with Ana during her murder? Did he take part in the actual act?

I know he lured her there and witnessed the act and so definitely guilty of a crime.

Obviously the judge and legal teams know a lot more about the law than me but this aspect has confused me.

Again not defending anyone just confused about trial.

In law an accomplice who is there is as guilty as the murderer.

Feisar · 19-06-2019 10:39AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Personally as I have said many times on boards prison is waaaay too soft.

There should be prisons like in the USA.

Let them work from 4 am to 12 midnight day in day out for the whole of their sentence. Boring manual Labour that is of benefit to society.

Life either means firing squad or compromise of full life behind bars.

I doubt any of the mainstream political parties we have would ever ever ever consider it.

Punishment is grand for some crimes. My preference would be for these two individuals to be removed from society as quickly and as economically as possible. Unfortunately this boils down to a bullet and an unmarked grave. Some may be squeamish about shooting kids, solitary till 18, then eradicate them.

tuxy · 19-06-2019 10:39AM

Penn wrote: »

I think Ana told her father she was going out and would be back later. He said she looked happy and so didn't think there was any cause for concern. I think after she was spotted with Boy B on CCTV in the area. I can't remember if the father knew specifically she went with Boy B or not.

The father answered the door when boy B called for her. Ana talked to the boy for a while and then told her dad she was heading out and wouldn't be long.

Fan of Netflix · 19-06-2019 10:40AM

Can anyone give me a quick summary of the physical/forensic evidence against Boy B? I've seen a good few people stating he was unlucky to get convicted and they thought he would get off + might have a shot in a retrial.

Berserker · 19-06-2019 10:41AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

The poor little murderers, eh? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yep, hugs, kisses and ice-cream for them both is the way to go, apparently.

joe40 · 19-06-2019 10:41AM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

In law an accomplice who is there is as guilty as the murderer.

Thanks for that, probably just watching to many American cop shows.

Penn · 19-06-2019 10:41AM

tuxy wrote: »

The father answered the door when boy B called for her. Ana talked to the boy for a while and then told her dad she was heading out and wouldn't be long.

Yeah I was thinking that was the case but couldn't remember fully.

tuxy · 19-06-2019 10:43AM

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Can anyone give me a quick summary of the physical/forensic evidence against Boy B? I've seen a good few people stating he was unlucky to get convicted and they thought he would get off + might have a shot in a retrial.

There is no forensics for him, his constant lies and backtracking in interviews is what got him convicted. The jury requested to watch all these interviews which is unusual(it takes up so much court time) . Usually they just get to hear the reports read to them.

fryup · 19-06-2019 10:43AM

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Can anyone give me a quick summary of the physical/forensic evidence against Boy B? I've seen a good few people stating he was unlucky to get convicted and they thought he would get off + might have a shot in a retrial.

i'm sure his legal team will put in an appeal

Woke Hogan · 19-06-2019 10:44AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Personally as I have said many times on boards prison is waaaay too soft.

There should be prisons like in the USA.

Let them work from 4 am to 12 midnight day in day out for the whole of their sentence. Boring manual Labour that is of benefit to society.

Life either means firing squad or compromise of full life behind bars.

I doubt any of the mainstream political parties we have would ever ever ever consider it.

Thank god. The American prison system is a complete basket case, anyone who thinks we should emulate any aspects of it here needs to wake up from their revenge fantasies.

ohnonotgmail · 19-06-2019 10:44AM

joe40 wrote: »

Thanks for that, probably just watching to many American cop shows.

In america they interpret it much more broadly. If you are involved in a crime in which somebody dies you are guilty of murder. There have been cases of home robberies where one of the robbers was shot and killed by the homeowner and everybody involved in the robbery was convicted of murder.

Penn · 19-06-2019 10:45AM

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Can anyone give me a quick summary of the physical/forensic evidence against Boy B? I've seen a good few people stating he was unlucky to get convicted and they thought he would get off + might have a shot in a retrial.

There was none, bar CCTV footage of him walking with Ana towards the spot. The case against him was mostly based on how he repeatedly lied and changed his story during interviews, each time revealing/admitting he was closer and closer to the point he finally admitted he was in the room and saw what Boy A did to her.

He was definitely involved and likely would have been found guilty of something, it was just whether his interviews carried enough weight for him to be convicted of murder itself (not having actually physically murdered her, but knowingly having had enough involvement in the cause of her murder and being present for it).

19-06-2019 10:45AM

When these boys are released I don’t want them to pose a further danger to society, insofar as this can be prevented. My Pollyanna dream would be that prison would offer them the following:

1. Reinforcement that what they did was at the extreme end of being wrong and that’s why they are there.

2. The possibility of being able to be a much better person in the future and that restitution can be made.

3. To learn the rights of all humans and living beings, including themselves, matched with responsibilities.

4. To gain insights into what it is like to walk in other people’s shoes.

5 To gain an education so that they might be self-supporting in the future, or at least have a more rounded view of the world and an aspiration to learn more.

6 To get whatever psychological or medical help that might help to prevent them reoffending, To learn to be able to desist and deflect from perversion to sexual violence.

All that is an enormous ask of prison, educational and social services. They would need to know of role models of people who have transformed their lives from sexual violence, and they are thin enough on the ground. I’m guessing the families might not have too many good role models amongst their males.

Otherwise one or both of these boys will be a further significant danger to society when they are released, and indeed be in danger of their own lives if anyone gives a fcuk about the latter.

There is little way they will escape attention when they are released, other inmates will leak it out when they too get out. Ireland is too small a country to change identity without somebody getting word, and Britain will probably be out with Brexit etc. If one or both are from other European countries maybe they could merge into those societies with maybe a head start on language from parents etc.

Fan of Netflix · 19-06-2019 10:45AM

tuxy wrote: »

There is no forensics for him, his constant lies and backtracking in interviews is what got him convicted. The jury requested to watch all these interviews which is unusual(it takes up so much court time) as usually they just get to hear the reports read to them.

Strange then, so basically if he no commented he would have got off. I'd say he may have a shot in a retrial if there is no forensic on him.

But I also seen someone say he had blood on his shoes?

optogirl · 19-06-2019 10:45AM

So many hard men on here wanting to shoot, maim, hang two 13 year olds and in the same breath can't understand how these boys can have been so violent or aggressive. Maybe their Dads were the type to spout about the things the'yd like to do to anyone who they didn't agree with/like.

These boys deserve their punishment, no doubt about it and as a society we have some serious issues to deal with with regard to internet access, smartphones, porn, bullying and all the rest but to bang on about how they should be kept in isolation and shot on their 18th birthday is absurd and the very type of institutional criminality that has led to the epidemic of mental ill health in this country.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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