Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

ILoveYourVibes · 19-06-2019 08:10AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The second question I would ask is who can be approached to put legislation in place to make bullying a crime

I would be in favor.

Gimme A Pound · 19-06-2019 08:11AM

patmahe wrote: »

The only people who deserve a second thought here are Ana and her family. How have we as a society, parents, teachers and kids evolved to a situation where a young girl's Mother was immediately concerned when she heard some people had called around and she had gone with them. Are we so indifferent to other people's suffering as a society that we choose to take the easy option and ignore it. I actually believe that for the past 10-15 years we've all been so caught up with the economy and social media that we have forgotten how to be humane towards each other in the real world.

These murderers have grown up in the social media age and I think based on the search history evidence that we really need to look at what children are actually exposed to at such a young age. Maybe the internet had nothing to do with it and it was always in them to commit these horrific crimes, but I do think the internet acts as an enabler, you can type any dark thing you like into a computer and almost immediately find like minded individuals.

My heart has broken for Ana and her family during this trial, like many I have actually tried not to find out too many details as its all so horrific and I am ashamed to say that. It means I am part of the problem, we need to drag this out into the light and try to learn from it, otherwise Ana's death was completely in vain and we as a society have failed her. Shame on us if that happens.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here with the whole social media/internet thing, fine if I'm wrong I'm wrong but lets have the discussion and get some answers, so there we're not all here in another couple of years talking about another similar case.

Not a fan of this we and us and shame stuff. The only ones responsible are the murderers. Unfortunately it isn't new. There has always been a minority of degenerates. School and the teenage years have always been brutal for some. There has always been terrible bullying.

Not saying at all that that means we should just shrug it off and go "oh well" but shifting blame from those directly responsible is a dangerous game too.

More effective school policies, less sh1tty parenting, and serious limitations on social media/internet in general - the latter really does bring a terrible new dimension to the teen years. And abandonment of this nonsensical insistence that extreme porn is no biggie for young teens (by people who watch it and feel uncomfortable with questions being raised about it).

weldoninhio · 19-06-2019 08:18AM

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

The warders care support workers literally can't touch the little scummers in case they are accused of assault by some of the 'human rights' lawyers who infest such places like ticks on a dying rat.

FYP

They had a riot there last year when 2 little scummers weren't allowed out to the ice cream van, that visits every Friday, as a punishment.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-06-2019 08:21AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

FYP

They had a riot there last year when 2 little scummers weren't allowed out to the ice cream van, that visits every Friday, as a punishment.

Oh. I see.

patmahe · 19-06-2019 08:23AM

Sorry, I wasn't trying to reduce the blame for this crime by spreading it. The people who carried out the crime are clearly the most directly responsible and should be punished to the full extent the law will allow.

However there is also the question, what can be done to try and stop similar individuals feeling like committing a crime of this nature is an option for them. Maybe the answer is nothing, but lets at least ask the question.

vicwatson · 19-06-2019 08:24AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It isn't for children.

I think it is but a judge has discretion to call it back for a review in say 10 years

Lackadaisical · 19-06-2019 08:24AM

I think one thing we should be looking at is trying to actually teach empathy and become a lot more proactive about ensuring people aren't isolated in schools.

A lot of the worst aspects of bullying occur when someone is 'othered'.

You'll always get some aggressive bullying but you get a lot of passive aggressive stuff and just social exclusion too caused by the herd mentality.
When you add the distance and bubble effect created by social media it's amplified in a way that can become really toxic and it brings in global online participants that have no proximity or empathy at all. Then that grows into someone being treated as an object of entertainment.

We can control the local environment of a school and I think we need to look at it with a far more psychological lens than we do.

vicwatson · 19-06-2019 08:28AM

The third is how do we guide parents to have the courage to ensure they check young teens online activity and to actually parent and take control

This.

So much involved here. It’s gonna be fight time every time, then trust issues, then they’ll find ways to bury stuff parents aren’t meant to see. Snapchat is the most evil thing ever. Secret messages, pictures gone in 10 seconds, unless of course someone screenshots them and distributes without your knowledge. Worst app ever invented imo (unless you’re a teenager)

SirGerryAdams · 19-06-2019 08:29AM

It would put you off ever thinking about having kids.

Not having the power to know what your kid is going through or knowing they are getting bullied. I'd find that really tough to deal with.

vicwatson · 19-06-2019 08:30AM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I don't think they thought they would get away with rape. Hadn't Ana already spoken about another guy hitting her on her backside?

This was reported to the gardai and an official caution was given

iamwhoiam · 19-06-2019 08:30AM

I count myself very lucky to have raised my teens in the days before social media
Parents need to take control over this and ensure the kids are safe but also ensure they are not involved in ostracism or bullying . Parents in my opinion have lost control to an extent and many are either too lazy or lack the skills to take back control of their very young teens
Lets find a way to empower adults again to be in control and guide and encourage our youth to be the very best they can be

sportsfan90 · 19-06-2019 08:31AM

I made the mistake of reading a few articles on the case before going to bed last night and I struggled to get any sleep after reading them. The thought of them leading her to that house and how her poor body was left abandoned is haunting.

Ana had a sad story long before her murder took place with all the bullying that she suffered. Thinking back to my own childhood, there were plenty of times when other kids were mean to me and likewise I'm sure I was occasionally mean to others too. But I hope to god that I never made anyone feel like poor Ana did. I can't stop thinking about her family.

B_ecke_r · 19-06-2019 08:33AM

14 or not these 2 teens committed premeditated murder.

they shouild have been tried as adults.

you should be tried on your ability to differentiate between right and wrong and to commit such a crime and lie about it they knew it was wrong.

not sure if you can blame their parents as don't know much about their background - even Hitler had a ma

lessons have been learned from Venebles and Thomson so not sure they will ever be named.

ohnonotgmail · 19-06-2019 08:35AM

B_ecke_r wrote: »

14 or not these 2 teens committed premeditated murder.

they shouild have been tried as adults.

you should be tried on your ability to differentiate between right and wrong and to commit such a crime and lie about it they knew it was wrong.

not sure if you can blame their parents as don't know much about their background - even Hitler had a ma

"tried as adults" has no meaning in an irish court.

vicwatson · 19-06-2019 08:36AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I count myself very lucky to have raised my teens in the days before social media
Parents need to take control over this and ensure the kids are safe but also ensure they are not involved in ostracism or bullying . Parents in my opinion have lost control to an extent and many are either too lazy or lack the skills to take back control of their very young teens
Lets find a way to empower adults again to be in control and guide and encourage our youth to be the very best they can be

Easier said than done

B_ecke_r · 19-06-2019 08:36AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"tried as adults" has no meaning in an irish court.

fair enough. what I'm saying is they should die in prison.

MrFresh · 19-06-2019 08:38AM

The Irish Times article was a tough read. Heart breaking to think what she went through even before the day of the murder. Hopefully the kids who bullied her feel a lot of remorse for their acts. Legally, the fact that murder investigators only get 24 hours to interview suspects seems ridiculous when you consider the number of interviews they had to do with the juveniles and the extra steps they had to take due to their age. Really something that needs to be looked at.

Hannibal_Smith · 19-06-2019 08:39AM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Yes. She was attacked by boy a wesring a mask the minute she entered the room. She wasn’t sexually assaulted first.

That answers that question then. Thank you

Boggles · 19-06-2019 08:42AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

The mandatory sentence for murder is life, there is no remission for pleading guilty early like there is for other charges. A lot of solicitors will advise their clients of this. They will also advise that if it does go to trial there is a very small chance that the trial will collapse on a technicality etc so there is a small % chance they will get off.

That would be if they were adults.

The judge has discretion of what sentence to impose, if it was a mandatory life sentence they would have got it yesterday. He still has that option.

If Boy A's legal team did not explain to him that if he pleads guilty and shows remorse this will be taken into account in sentencing then they failed him professionally. I'd be astonished if they didn't though.

Boy A didn't offer a defense apart from suppression of evidence, in reality his defense started yesterday when he was found guilty.

Samuel Vimes · 19-06-2019 08:44AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

The mandatory sentence for murder is life, there is no remission for pleading guilty early like there is for other charges. A lot of solicitors will advise their clients of this. They will also advise that if it does go to trial there is a very small chance that the trial will collapse on a technicality etc so there is a small % chance they will get off.

No
There is no mandatory sentence for murder where the convicted person is a child- under the Childrens Act the judge has discretion as to what sentence to impose.

iamwhoiam · 19-06-2019 08:45AM

vicwatson wrote: »

Easier said than done

Absolutely . I am not saying its easy , raising teens never was . But it takes effort involvement and for a few years putting your own needs in second place

Sawduck · 19-06-2019 08:47AM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I missed that bit.

Read your posts then

19-06-2019 08:50AM

vicwatson wrote: »

Easier said than done

At least trying is something just saying there are all at it, a well what can you do is not really good enough. It is not blaming parents some parent do need more help with holding the line society has to support them in some way with doing that.

The parents I know who did best with this were basically tough nuts who more or less took the line of their will was stronger than the childs and no amount of perstre power was going to work. I know its hard.

19-06-2019 08:53AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Absolutely . I am not saying its easy , raising teens never was . But it takes effort involvement and for a few years putting your own needs in second place

That is blaming parents its not as simple as that if one parent holds the line you can bet others are not so the child will just get access to it from thier friends unmonitored phone society has to back up the parents and make it easier.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 19-06-2019 08:55AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"tried as adults" has no meaning in an irish court.

?

Pretty sure it does and they were, by and large, with some exemptions (from having to see the evidence of the brutality).

SteelyDanJalapeno · 19-06-2019 08:57AM

nevermind

Sundance_Kid · 19-06-2019 08:57AM

I missed parts of the trial due to being away but a couple of questions,someone may be able to answer

1. Did they show interviews with Boy A in court? Seemed to be mostly Boy B interviews that were shown. Was it a case of Boy A saying "No comment" to all interview questions? And then just trying to get Boy B to be the one to confirm it was Boy A?

2. Semen or DNA (cant remember which or if both the same thing) from a third unidentified source was found on her top. Seems strange if it was semen from someone else, how it got there. Did someone come across her body after or something.

davyboy1975 · 19-06-2019 09:01AM

Looks like redfm could be in trouble for naming one of the boys this morning.

Yurt2 · 19-06-2019 09:01AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"tried as adults" has no meaning in an irish court.

Under the Children's Act it does. Minors accused of a crime attracting a tariff less than 12 months are prosecuted in the Children's Court. The nature of this crime and the tariff it attracts upon a guilty verdict meant it had to be heard in the Central Criminal Court.

MrFresh · 19-06-2019 09:02AM

davyboy1975 wrote: »

Looks like redfm could be in trouble for naming one of the boys this morning.

Was it a presenter or caller?

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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