Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

tuxy · 18-06-2019 10:37PM

No Bills wrote: »

While the automatic life sentence does not apply to children, this quote from Conor Gallagher's detailed Irish Times article may go some way to explaining the lack of a guilty plea:
"Guilty pleas are extremely rare in murder trials as the offence carries an automatic life sentence on conviction no matter what approach the accused takes. As there is no sentencing discount for a guilty plea, defendants reason they have little to lose by taking a chance on a trial. Even if the evidence is damning they may be acquitted on a technicality or because of a deficiency in the investigation."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570

I believe this should be changed, the plea give at trial should weight heavily on future parole. It would spare some grieving families painful lengthy trials.

El_Bee · 18-06-2019 10:37PM

washman3 wrote: »

Highly regarded by who...???
He's laughing all the way to the bank tonight anyway, courtesy of the Irish taxpayer.
A few weeks golfing vacation and then back to 'spin the wheel; again with the appeal case.
And this is supposed to be democracy.:mad:

That's not fair, the right to a fair trial regardless of the severity of the crime, is the bedrock of a free and democratic republic.

Hal3000 · 18-06-2019 10:37PM

Nobelium wrote: »

Like the Jamie Bulger murderers . . . . the bleeding hear liberals will insist these murdering satanic scum get out as soon as they are adults after playing PlayStation, x-box and table tennis in some comfy hotel like facility. Then the state will spend a fortune setting them up with a nice new identity, accommodation and jobs somewhere.

Probably getting counseling as we speak.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 18-06-2019 10:37PM

tayto lover wrote: »

And even if you couldn’t stop the murder the decent thing to do is to run home and blurt it all out to your parents who’d then do the decent thing and inform the police.
But when you probably took part in the planning by supplying the blue sticky tape, called for her with this “nice story” about Boy A wanting to meet her and leading her to her death while you watched it all and afterwards lied through your teeth about it for ages while the search went on and again and again after being arrested you might not have been that scared.

And this is exactly what the jury decided and took 14 hours to do so watching all of those tapes over again. (They probably decided on the guilt of boy A in 5 minutes).

I trust they made a good decision.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-06-2019 10:37PM

Suckit wrote: »

I think he was just referring to the Gardaí.

He was obviously convinced by his sons story.

Nonsense. Ill bred dysfunctional family.

tuxy · 18-06-2019 10:38PM

Nobelium wrote: »

Like the Jamie Bulger murderers . . . . the bleeding hear liberals will insist these murdering satanic scum get out as soon as they are adults after playing PlayStation, x-box and table tennis in some comfy hotel like facility. Then the state will spend a fortune setting them up with a nice new identity, accommodation and jobs somewhere.

I don't remember anyone demanding early release in that case. Care to jog my memory?

Bikerman2019 · 18-06-2019 10:38PM

Venable and thompson, the two scumbags who got similar protection orders after killing the child in Liverpool, have been outed several times.

Orders of anonymity cannot be enforced internationally and someone will out them.

One of the two Liverpool killers even had his photo put online. Any legal order will come down hard on Irish sources, but the net is global.

Suckit · 18-06-2019 10:38PM

anewme wrote: »

Same as when he went to bed when his son was interviewed at the front door for an hour by Gardai as being the last to see a missing girl alive.

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Which story? There were quite a few.

I'm not defending the man, I'm just saying how I read it. He was attacking the Gardaí.

He came home from wherever and saw the Garda at his door, and wasn't at all interested. Same son's address was found by Gardaí by looking up the PULSE system.

Don't know anything about the man, but it seems to me that maybe he was one of the first people that his son realised he was smarter then.

18-06-2019 10:38PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It is actually. If he was there. If he brought Anna. If he had reason to believe she would have been killed and If he didn’t stop the murder then he’s an accomplice.

No actually it's not. Presence at the murder scene or not trying to stop the murder are not legal justifications for a murder conviction.

Foreknowledge and conspiracy to murder are. But that's not what the poster said.

18-06-2019 10:39PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I don’t think you have a clue of the law.

I'm a lawyer.

anewme · 18-06-2019 10:39PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

anewme wrote: »

Boy B's Father was a disrespectful see you next Tuesday, slamming doors, cursing, shouting abuse in the Court when he did not get his way.

Ana's parents remained dignified in the face of horrible evidence.

But what kind of responsible parent skulks off to bed when their son is interviewed at their own front door by Gardai as being the last so see a young girl alive?

Boy B is particularly evil, manipulative sly dog who thought hed get away with it. A junior Graham Dwyer, praying on the vulnerable.

Were I his Dad and doubted his conviction I may have done the same myself. Undignified and it'd portray me in a bad light but I may not be able to compose myself were my own son to be convicted of something I felt he was innocent of.

And when the Gardai came to the house there was no indication then that it was anything other than a check on a girl who'd not come home for a few hours. He left it to his wife and kid. It was not a murder investigation then.

Cursing and slamming doors in the faces of a family whose daughter has lost her life horrifically as a result of your sons actions leading her to her death and involvement is not to be defended or condoned.

If it were Ana's parents id understand.

fritzelly · 18-06-2019 10:39PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Were I his Dad and doubted his conviction I may have done the same myself. Undignified and it'd portray me in a bad light but I may not be able to compose myself were my own son to be convicted of something I felt he was innocent of.

Think I would be a whimpering mess on the floor tbh not screaming at people across the court
Ana's parents showed upmost respect for the jurors, judge and everyone but that guy showed absolute contempt
It certainly wasn't easy for the jury to come to a unanimous decision

petrolcan · 18-06-2019 10:39PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

Here we go... That took longer than expected. Won't somebody please think of the bullies. Fu*k the bullies. This type of response is the problem.

Are you seriously telling me that you never did anything that could be construed as bullying when a teenager?

The point I'm making is that all teens did/do it, even without thinking. Give them a criminal record for it and see what happens. It'd be like giving everyone a 2:1 degree for writing their name on a bit of paper.

rizzodun · 18-06-2019 10:39PM

Nobelium wrote: »

Like the Jamie Bulger murderers . . . . the bleeding hear liberals will insist these murdering satanic scum get out as soon as they are adults after playing PlayStation, x-box and table tennis in some comfy hotel like facility (At least one of the bulger murderers was having sex with his social workers in his cosy care home). Then the state will spend a fortune setting them up with a nice new identity, accommodation and jobs somewhere.

It's a fairly emotive topic but people need to stop comparing this case, in Ireland, with a case in the UK. Different jurisdictions, 26 years apart.

Nerdlingr · 18-06-2019 10:40PM

I'll just post this again...

"Any person who aids, abets, counsels or procures the commission of an indictable offence shall be liable to be indicted, tried and punished as a principal offender."

ILoveYourVibes · 18-06-2019 10:40PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

Probably getting counseling as we speak.

I don't have an issue with that. Hopefully it brings them round to admitting what they did. That's real counseling.

Otherwise they are just playing games.

18-06-2019 10:40PM

anewme wrote: »

There will be zero public sympathy for this "unsafe " conviction.

Fair enough. But the conviction may be wrong. Boy B has certainly not helped himself.

PressRun · 18-06-2019 10:40PM

Never read or listened to the details of the last moments of her life, but read a bit about who Ana was as a person. Talented and sensitive were two word that came to mind. A girl that probably would have flourished once outside the toxic school environment. But also could not escape how sad and lonely she seemed to be, and how much she craved friendship.
A conversation needs to be had about how tough it is for these kids, the relentless bullying that can turn violent, the mental anguish a lot of them seem to be going through.
What a horrible thing those boys did to a girl so full of potential and her family.

Nobelium · 18-06-2019 10:41PM

rizzodun wrote: »

It's a fairly emotive topic but people need to stop comparing this case, in Ireland, with a case in the UK. Different jurisdictions, 26 years apart.

Ireland apes whatever liberals in the UK do. One of the reasons Ana is dead is the non existent deterrent to any crimes in this country.
Let's see then shall we, but given it's 26 years on, they are going to be given an even softer ride.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-06-2019 10:41PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

I'll just post this again...

"Any person who aids, abets, counsels or procures the commission of an indictable offence shall be liable to be indicted, tried and punished as a principal offender."

He gave the other boy the cord to choke her with. He lured her there. He watched while she was sexually assaulted and beaten to death.

I would say he did even more.

Hal3000 · 18-06-2019 10:41PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't have an issue with that. Hopefully it brings them round to admitting what they did. That's real counseling.

Otherwise they are just playing games.

Will Ana's parents be offered the same treatment?

Sardonicat · 18-06-2019 10:41PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

petrolcan wrote: »

Indeed. I did and I've no doubt that many of the posters in this thread did too.

Criminal records all round

As far as I'm concerned, absolutely. The vast majority of kids I grew up with did not engage in violent bullying. If done by adults it's called "assault" and carries a criminal conviction. It should be no different when done among teenagers.

What about the older boy who propositioned Ana for sex and slapped her on the bum? A fecking caution! !! Or the 3rd year lad who harrassing her on her youtube channel with sexual comments when she was in 6th class? 6th class.! And he would have known it too because he knew enough about her to make fun of her for having a "fake" mum and Dad . It's deeply disturbing that much of the bullying this child suffered had a sexual component .

Shemale · 18-06-2019 10:41PM

Wombatman wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0618/1056046-boy-b-ana-kriegal-trial/

How do a jury decide why the boy lied?

Was it proven beyond reasonable doubt that he knew of the other boy's intention to kill? I know he told him, but Boy B responded with total disbelief?

Dear Jesus, you must be his dad.

He lied at every opportunity, the Gardai did brilliant getting him to say he was there, I dont believe for one minute he left or was scared.

HE ADMITTED HE WAS THERE, when Ana was being sexually assaulted and strangled, he did nothing to stop boy A, he did nothing to help Ana, he watched.

He knew it was going to happen and he stayed and did nothing because he wanted to watch.

Monumental · 18-06-2019 10:42PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

They were tried as adults
They'll get life, as is mandatory.

They were tried as children ,so their punishment will not fit their crime . Rip beautiful Ana

El_Bee · 18-06-2019 10:42PM

Because it was not admitted into the case as evidence, was Boy B omitting telling the Gardai seeing Boy A with his trousers open standing over Ana the 9th or 10th lie?

18-06-2019 10:43PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If my child did something like this I wouldn't be hurling abuse at the victim's family and the jury in court. Boy B's family are utter scum. This isn't about holding all parents responsible for all of their childrens' bad behaviour, but this particular crowd come across as unhinged, dysfunctional scrotes.

Abuse at the Gardai & Jury according to the news reports. Not the victim's family. Stick to the facts here.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-06-2019 10:43PM

Nobelium wrote: »

Ireland apes whatever liberals in the UK do.
Let's see then shall we, but given it's 26 years on, they are going to be given an even softer ride.

Yes and no.

They are kids now. They won't always be. In 4 yrs time they will be adults.

And adults who killed a child as a child are different to young offenders.

Besides they WILL offend again particularly after being in a young offenders prison. They all do.

I take your point though. It's likely the sentence will be far too soft.

petrolcan · 18-06-2019 10:43PM

anewme wrote: »

In what way, murdering an innocent and lying about it?

In any way given the amount of swearing and anger from their posts.

ILoveYourVibes · 18-06-2019 10:44PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Abuse at the Gardai & Jury according to the news reports. Not the victim's family. Stick to the facts here.

They were in the room. I am sure they FELT it was aimed at them.

Nerdlingr · 18-06-2019 10:44PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He gave the other boy the cord to choke her with. He lured her there. He watched while she was sexually assaulted and beaten to death.

I would say he did even more.

Eh, that's exactly my point.

Anyone who aids or abets a principal offender can be tried as a principal offender themself.
Hence why Boy B was found guilty of murder.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Comments