Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

anewme · 18-06-2019 10:26PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

freak scence wrote: »

sad ****in sacks defending this ****e

Too many unsafe convictions in this country and the UK. Boy B looks to me like yet another one.

There will be zero public sympathy for this "unsafe " conviction.

Sunflower 27 · 18-06-2019 10:26PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It is actually. If he was there. If he brought Anna. If he had reason to believe she would have been killed and If he didn’t stop the murder then he’s an accomplice.

And it turns out, thankfully, it was a very good legal argument.

Boy B was the one I thought may actually get off. I was so pleased to hear BOTH were guilty.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 18-06-2019 10:27PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Too many unsafe convictions in this country and the UK. Boy B looks to me like yet another one.

I don’t think you have a clue of the law.

18-06-2019 10:27PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

What if it's the wrong boys? Vigilante alert.

Dublin is a small place, I work with a girl who's brothers child was in their class, they are in class photos with the other kid's, she actually I'D one of them out of a class picture guessing having never seen them before....

It's small little things like that you never even think of..

18-06-2019 10:27PM

dd973 wrote: »

There's always been a viciousness in this country towards people deemed different or not fitting in, it hasn't gone away with the disappearance of the industrial schools, magdalen launderies, the lessening of the Church's role in the state or with all the apparent hippy-dippy liberal identity politics that are commoditised to the core.

It's something that's all pervasive and not hard to find if you keep your eyes and ears open, it's directed towards people whom are deemed not Irish enough, LGBT people and those rumoured to be LGBT, Travellers or anybody who 'looks like a Traveller', any male who's not a swaggering pseudo-alpha gob****e, working class people labelled as 'knackers', anybody who basically doesn't fit in with 'Brand Ireland'. It's still a small country with minds to match.

Definitely elements of that. But I'd argue that it doesn't pervade the entire country and we're battling against it year by year. Hopefully we're winning and the loss of poor Ana is an aberration.

Gimme A Pound · 18-06-2019 10:28PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The masks were the frighten her. The knee pads were to keep his precious little knees unharmed as he assaulted or raped her. The gloves were to stop any fingerprints.

Doubt the person you're explaining it to cares. Imagine behaving like that on this thread of all threads.

Shemale · 18-06-2019 10:28PM

Priscilla Mushy Banner wrote: »

One of those boys, Robert Thompson, has gone on to lead a blameless life. The other has repeatedly come to the attention of the police. So it seems that it can be possible to rehabilitate child killers, but that it's not always the case.

This is completely different though, Thompson and Venables were 10 and it is believed they watched Childs Play and wanted to kill someone like Chucky. Thompson has since abused children. I think those ****ers are under protection with new IDs.

Poor Ana was sexually assaulted before being murdered and I would fear both of these pricks could reoffend like other serial sex offenders / murderers.

hatrickpatrick · 18-06-2019 10:29PM

petrolcan wrote: »

Let's all hope your child never puts a foot wrong.

If my child did something like this I wouldn't be hurling abuse at the victim's family and the jury in court. Boy B's family are utter scum. This isn't about holding all parents responsible for all of their childrens' bad behaviour, but this particular crowd come across as unhinged, dysfunctional scrotes.

anewme · 18-06-2019 10:29PM

petrolcan wrote: »

freak scence wrote: »

**** em all parents should be done too , for bringing these ***** into th eworld

Let's all hope your child never puts a foot wrong.

In what way, murdering an innocent and lying about it?

Gimme A Pound · 18-06-2019 10:29PM

petrolcan wrote: »

Let's all hope your child never puts a foot wrong.

Yeah this was merely a foot being put wrong.

petrolcan · 18-06-2019 10:29PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

ITT: All kids engage in violent bullying.

Indeed. I did and I've no doubt that many of the posters in this thread did too.

Criminal records all round

Calltocall · 18-06-2019 10:29PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Then he probably believed he had a decent chance of getting Boy A off. And knew what that would mean for his career.

I’m always reminded of the film Devils Advocate in situations like this, I understand the law is the law and someone has to defend the monsters in society however on a human level it must be very difficult putting your head down at night when you reflect on your day and know that you’ve done all you could to get someone off who you knew was guilty, akin to selling your soul to step up the promotional ladder and to a bigger pay cheque, not a good trade off but maybe some people just don’t give a **** about matters of the conscience and that’s why they’re in the profession.

Sardonicat · 18-06-2019 10:30PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

Is there some kind of app that can monitor activity and report it back to another phone? Wouldn't this be ideal for monitoring a teenagers activity? I know it might sound a tad extreme but when I was growing up I didn't have unfettered access to extreme material. This while thing about handing a teenager a phone without any controls is just madness.

I don't think you need an app. You just need to not give your kid one of these devices .

ILoveYourVibes · 18-06-2019 10:30PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Then don't make statements that the parents lied when you can't back it up.

And we really don't know what the parents are like. I know the parents of a double murderer. Loving and lovely people. And when I worked as a lawyer I represented a lot of unloveable people. Many with very decent parents. That may not be the case with the parents of these two lads but we have no idea so speculation and condemnation isn't wise.

The father of one of the boys called everyone in the courtroom (inc anna's parents) 'scumbags' when the verdict was read.

They don't sound like nice people.

Wabbit Ears · 18-06-2019 10:30PM

Initially I felt sorry for the parents of the two lads but now.. horrible remorseless fcuk who will pay for how he acted for the rest of his life. No one will ever forgive him those comments and his slow clap.

washman3 · 18-06-2019 10:31PM

tuxy wrote: »

Patrick Gageby SC is already a highly regarded defence Barrister that specialises in high profile cases. (many of them for murder)

Highly regarded by who...???
He's laughing all the way to the bank tonight anyway, courtesy of the Irish taxpayer.
A few weeks golfing vacation and then back to 'spin the wheel; again with the appeal case.
And this is supposed to be democracy.:mad:

Hal3000 · 18-06-2019 10:31PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

I don't think you need an app. You just need to not give your kid one of these devices .

True. Even better.

No Bills · 18-06-2019 10:31PM

While the automatic life sentence does not apply to children, this quote from Conor Gallagher's detailed Irish Times article may go some way to explaining the lack of a guilty plea:
"Guilty pleas are extremely rare in murder trials as the offence carries an automatic life sentence on conviction no matter what approach the accused takes. As there is no sentencing discount for a guilty plea, defendants reason they have little to lose by taking a chance on a trial. Even if the evidence is damning they may be acquitted on a technicality or because of a deficiency in the investigation."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570

Gimme A Pound · 18-06-2019 10:31PM

petrolcan wrote: »

Indeed. I did and I've no doubt that many of the posters in this thread did too.

Criminal records all round

Ah, projection.

tayto lover · 18-06-2019 10:31PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I believe they were too. The Gardai will have been uber-wary about getting anything wrong. Won't stop the defence lawyers on appeal from disputing it though. Particularly with the psychiatric evidence of PTSD meaning Boy B may not have been of a fit mind to answer questions. He was there from the assault going by his interview with the doctor but whether he stayed for the murder is unclear.

Easy for us all to say we'd have intervened. As a 13 year old I was pretty scared of some guys my age and older. I'd hate though to think I wouldn't try to stop a murder.

And even if you couldn’t stop the murder the decent thing to do is to run home and blurt it all out to your parents who’d then do the decent thing and inform the police.
But when you probably took part in the planning by supplying the blue sticky tape, called for her with this “nice story” about Boy A wanting to meet her and leading her to her death while you watched it all and afterwards lied through your teeth about it for ages while the search went on and again and again after being arrested you might not have been that scared.

Suckit · 18-06-2019 10:31PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The father of one of the boys called everyone in the courtroom (inc anna's parents) 'scumbags' when the verdict was read.

They don't sound like nice people.

I think he was just referring to the Gardaí.

He was obviously convinced by his sons story.

18-06-2019 10:32PM

anewme wrote: »

Boy B's Father was a disrespectful see you next Tuesday, slamming doors, cursing, shouting abuse in the Court when he did not get his way.

Ana's parents remained dignified in the face of horrible evidence.

But what kind of responsible parent skulks off to bed when their son is interviewed at their own front door by Gardai as being the last so see a young girl alive?

Boy B is particularly evil, manipulative sly dog who thought hed get away with it. A junior Graham Dwyer, praying on the vulnerable.

Were I his Dad and doubted his conviction I may have done the same myself. Undignified and it'd portray me in a bad light but I may not be able to compose myself were my own son to be convicted of something I felt he was innocent of.

And when the Gardai came to the house there was no indication then that it was anything other than a check on a girl who'd not come home for a few hours. He left it to his wife and kid. It was not a murder investigation then.

hatrickpatrick · 18-06-2019 10:32PM

petrolcan wrote: »

Indeed. I did and I've no doubt that many of the posters in this thread did too.

Criminal records all round

As far as I'm concerned, absolutely. The vast majority of kids I grew up with did not engage in violent bullying. If done by adults it's called "assault" and carries a criminal conviction. It should be no different when done among teenagers.

Dante7 · 18-06-2019 10:33PM

spaceHopper wrote: »

The sentence for murder is life no matter what, you can't be given a lighter sentence for pleading guilty - so they had nothing to gain by doing so. The prosecution had to prove she didn't consent to sex with boy A and that they planned to kill her, they this wasn't something gone wrong and man-slaughter

You are completely wrong in every aspect of this post. Life sentence is not mandatory for children.
They defense plan was to seek a manslaughter conviction for Boy A, which would have exonerated Boy B.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 18-06-2019 10:33PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I believe they were too. The Gardai will have been uber-wary about getting anything wrong. Won't stop the defence lawyers on appeal from disputing it though. Particularly with the psychiatric evidence of PTSD meaning Boy B may not have been of a fit mind to answer questions. He was there from the assault going by his interview with the doctor but whether he stayed for the murder is unclear.

Easy for us all to say we'd have intervened. As a 13 year old I was pretty scared of some guys my age and older. I'd hate though to think I wouldn't try to stop a murder.

You’re assuming that the gardai the PTSD evidence will somehow convince a higher court when it wasn’t even admissible in this trial. This is the very evidence that actually definitely puts boy B at the scene of the crime.

Also one shrinks opinion isn’t itself absolutely guaranteed to win the trial, even if an appeal happens the new jury or judges may well discount the evidence even if it is deemed permissible.

anewme · 18-06-2019 10:34PM

Suckit wrote: »

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The father of one of the boys called everyone in the courtroom (inc anna's parents) 'scumbags' when the verdict was read.

They don't sound like nice people.

I think he was just referring to the Gardaí.

He was obviously convinced by his sons story.

Same as when he went to bed when his son was interviewed at the front door for an hour by Gardai as being the last to see a missing girl alive.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 18-06-2019 10:34PM

Suckit wrote: »

I think he was just referring to the Gardaí.

He was obviously convinced by his sons story.

Which story? There were quite a few.

tuxy · 18-06-2019 10:34PM

washman3 wrote: »

Highly regarded by who...???
He's laughing all the way to the bank tonight anyway, courtesy of the Irish taxpayer.
A few weeks golfing vacation and then back to 'spin the wheel; again with the appeal case.
And this is supposed to be democracy.:mad:

Would denying some people a defence in court be democracy?
It sounds like he did a good job by all reports I've read.
The people claiming his goal was to prevent murders from being prosecuted as some on here have claimed is complete nonsense. It's clear these people are too lazy to read the statements the defence council for boy A made in court.

Nobelium · 18-06-2019 10:36PM

Like the Jamie Bulger murderers . . . . the bleeding hear liberals will insist these murdering satanic scum get out as soon as they are adults after playing PlayStation, x-box and table tennis in some comfy hotel like facility (At least one of the bulger murderers was having regular sex with his social workers in his cosy care home). Then the state will spend a fortune setting them up with a nice new identity, accommodation and jobs somewhere.

MissShihTzu · 18-06-2019 10:37PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I suppose working parents, busy lives. Most parents aren't going to think they are raising potential murderers.

Kids spend a lot of time on their phones these days. That would hardly been seen as strange or deviant.

No. I suppose not. But then again - Most parents should take an interest in their children's lives. Likes, dislikes, favourite programmes, who their friends are. Normal ****. No matter how busy their lives are. So I don't buy that. And I would most certainly ask to see their phones from time to time. But then, that's me.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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