Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

screamer · 18-06-2019 10:00PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

I think a few PQs to the Dept of Education are in order. I want to know what's the policy on dealing with bullying? This is crazy how people are saying the schools can do nothing. That's just not acceptable. If we keep pressure on politicians they will have to act. Start petitions ask Parliamentary questions. This issue is at the core of Irish values and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer.

Once expelled, other schools can refuse to take them in, therefore they’d not get their education and I’m sure some rights of the bully would be infringed. But forget the victim, their rights are trumped by the rights of the bully..... isn’t that how Ireland works across the board.....

Sunflower 27 · 18-06-2019 10:00PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No not take it to lose but it happens all the time where someone has to take a case they know they will not win

Its there duty to take cases so that justice one way or another can be served ,

There is. no point in people's going after the defence, without them the case can't happen , someone has to take it

We will have to agree to disagree. I don't believe he took the case for any other reason than to get his client off.

I think you are deluding yourself if you think he took it to try and lose and/or because no one else would so justice wouldn't be served.

Anyway, he lost. And I am delighted.

Mrsmum · 18-06-2019 10:00PM

El_Bee wrote: »

As I mentioned earlier, I overheard a neghbour and her friend build an alibi for their two little angels as they were called into a meeting in the school over bullying another girl, the vile creatures are still in school, clown world.

That's the thing. Over the years I have heard of many parents devastated and at the end of their tether but still after countless incidents over a long period of time trying to work with the school to get the bullying of their child stopped. Feck that I say, everyone should land down to the police station and a squad car to the door would put the frightners on a lot of these scuts.

yourdeadwright · 18-06-2019 10:01PM

strandroad wrote: »

It's one thing to conduct a technically correct defence, and quite another to try to smear the victim though. Their strategy was shameful.

They may not have made that choice ,
The person on trail or there parents in this case can push for them to go a certain way

18-06-2019 10:01PM

Calltocall wrote: »

Are you for real, no surprise they supported him FFS! They knew their son and would have had to of known there were serious inconsistencies in his story but didn’t want to accept that and instead dragged the victims family through a trial instead of grabbing the little **** by the scruff of the neck and make him tell the guards the truth from the outset and make him face the consequences of his actions maybe if they took that line when rearing him he wouldn’t be in the mess he’s in today, now he’s learning the hard way, their are consequences for your actions, they should have taught him that valuable lesson.

The evidence against Boy B is slight and an unsafe conviction I think. Particularly given the exclusion of the psychiatric witness. He'll likely be released by the Appeal Court. I would thus fully expect Boy B's parents to support him though they must have been flabbergasted by his ever-changing statements.

Boy A is an entirely matter.

Hal3000 · 18-06-2019 10:01PM

If the schools can do nothing about bullying then essentially we are sending out kids into dangerous environments everyday. Only in Ireland. It's not that the schools can do nothing, it's that's they're backed by a toothless Department that obviously don't give them any authority or proper guidance. In typical Irish fashion we will keep passing the buck until another person is killed in the same fashion.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 18-06-2019 10:01PM

Dante7 wrote: »

I was talking to a consultant psychiatrist recently about an unrelated matter and he said that all children can be little sociopathic assholes. It is our jobs as parents and educators to prevent these traits continuing.

That’s right. Particularly at 12-14 for some reason.

BorneTobyWilde · 18-06-2019 10:02PM

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

No I'm not. I didn't mention the parents. Sometimes they are to blame but sometimes they are not. The school isn't totally to blame but it's not blameless if bullying is known to be carrying on on its premises.

What's this "society" thing about? It gets used to explain things in a high handed manner but it's meaningless. And it does shift responsibility from those who actually carry the deed out.

"Seems to" you? Despite the kit with the mask and kneepads etc? Surely you're taking the piss. And what's this "bee" bollox?

What are masks and knee pads for when planning a murder.

yourdeadwright · 18-06-2019 10:02PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

We will have to agree to disagree. I don't believe he took the case for any other reason than to get his client off.

I think you are deluding yourself if you think he took it to try and lose and/or because no one else would so justice wouldn't be served.

Anyway, he lost. And I am delighted.

I happy he lost just like you
All I'm saying is someone had to take case

strandroad · 18-06-2019 10:02PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

To be honest, I don't think they tried to smear her. Boy A was up for aggrevated sexual assault as well. He was bound to ask the question if Ana was sexually active or not. It comes with the territory unfortunately.

Not only that, he suggested that it was a place for teenage trysts and that's why she met him there i.e. he did not plan it.
It was completely uncalled for.

n97 mini · 18-06-2019 10:03PM

bubblypop wrote: »

And that fact that he called for her & was seen with her.

Which he told gardai.

Faugheen · 18-06-2019 10:04PM

spurious wrote: »

But yet others say all he does is lie. So he lies about some things but not others?
He isn't lying when he says he was involved, but sometimes he is lying?
(I'm playing devil's advocate here btw in case anyone goes mad).

I wasn't in court and I have no doubt he was involved, but I also agree with the poster who said a murder charge against Boy B was maybe not the way to go. I think he might win an appeal.

As I've said. It's easy to read the evidence that was said in court, it's a different matter altogether to actually be in there and see it in action.

Anyone who is assuming he wins an appeal is in cloud cuckoo land. The jury watched his police interviews twice. He was calm as f*ck in that environment - after being arrested in relation to a murder investigation. Any normal child breaks down and buckles under the pressure.

This chap didn't. He lied, and lied and lied, and every time he lied he found a way to bring attention back to Boy A.

He said he left them at the park, when really he stood there and watched her die, and did nothing about it before, during or after the fact.

Boy B wasn't just complicit in this murder. He f*cking orchestrated it.

Nerdlingr · 18-06-2019 10:05PM

spurious wrote: »

But yet others say all he does is lie. So he lies about some things but not others?
He isn't lying when he says he was involved, but sometimes he is lying?
(I'm playing devil's advocate here btw in case anyone goes mad).

I wasn't in court and I have no doubt he was involved, but I also agree with the poster who said a murder charge against Boy B was maybe not the way to go. I think he might win an appeal.

Why would he lie about being at the scene and seeing Boy A with his pants open and flipping Ana and start to choke her? Why would he lie to put himself in that position and tie his own noose? You lie to exeronate yourself, you don't lie to implicate yourself.

In Irish law "Any person who aids, abets, counsels or procures the commission of an indictable offence shall be liable to be indicted, tried and punished as a principal offender."

It's there in the Irish statute in black and white.
He is guilty of murder.

Ash.J.Williams · 18-06-2019 10:05PM

a lot of posts regarding boy B and his involvement, i can only assume that the jury had a better view than us and his demeanor in court might have told a different story.

freak scence · 18-06-2019 10:05PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

a lot of posts regarding boy B and his involvement, i can only assume that the jury had a better view than us and his demeanor in court might have told a different story.

why was he there?

gormdubhgorm · 18-06-2019 10:06PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Maybe this is a stupid question but is there any crime called bullying even when it's at the extreme end ? Can you go to the garda station and report that your child is being bullied by X ? Because some of these bullies would badly want a squad car to the door or to be up in court.

There is a crime called harassment in the non-fatal offences of the person act 1997 s10.2

I am not sure if there is a cyber-bullying element in legislation although there have been calls for it.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/new-laws-to-combat-online-abuse-such-as-cyberbullying-and-revenge-porn-422963.html

fritzelly · 18-06-2019 10:06PM

freak scence wrote: »

sad ****in sacks defending this ****e

Someone would have had to defend him

dd973 · 18-06-2019 10:07PM

There's always been a viciousness in this country towards people deemed different or not fitting in, it hasn't gone away with the disappearance of the industrial schools, magdalen launderies, the lessening of the Church's role in the state or with all the apparent hippy-dippy liberal identity politics that are commoditised to the core.

It's something that's all pervasive and not hard to find if you keep your eyes and ears open, it's directed towards people whom are deemed not Irish enough, LGBT people and those rumoured to be LGBT, Travellers or anybody who 'looks like a Traveller', any male who's not a swaggering pseudo-alpha gob****e, working class people labelled as 'knackers', anybody who basically doesn't fit in with 'Brand Ireland'. It's still a small country with minds to match.

Spanish Eyes · 18-06-2019 10:07PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

If the schools can do nothing about bullying then essentially we are sending out kids into dangerous environments everyday. Only in Ireland. It's not that the schools can do nothing, it's that's they're backed by a toothless Department that obviously don't give them any authority or proper guidance. In typical Irish fashion we will keep passing the buck until another person is killed in the same fashion.

I think bullying whether at school or work can/has led to many a suicide also.

Anti bullying policies sound and look great in your work contract, or on a school website etc. but it would appear that the reality is very different.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 18-06-2019 10:07PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

What are masks and knee pads for when planning a murder.

The masks were the frighten her. The knee pads were to keep his precious little knees unharmed as he assaulted or raped her. The gloves were to stop any fingerprints.

Little monster.

Stoner · 18-06-2019 10:07PM

MightyMandarin wrote:

God help you if your child ever commits a heinous crime. While how one is raised is definitely a factor in how they end up, to blame the parents for their sons committing an act of murder is totally unfair. Plenty of murderers and criminals were raised in good homes with loving parents.

To not recognise the parents role after the crime? are you serious?

Being in complete denial of what terrible crime they committed is unforgivable, the wrong thing to do every time. If any of the parents supported a guilty plea then I'd have sympathy with them.

This is not the time for a "walk a mile in my shoes " story, this is about their behaviour after the crime, not the loving home they did or didn't create while raising their children.
This is not about showing empathy for fellow parents, leave that sentiment out of this. Where was theirs for the victim's patents?

The poster was 100 percent correct.
If either of our families committed such a terrible act, we still have some control over how we act, how we appear to the now childless couple.

screamer · 18-06-2019 10:07PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

There is a crime called harassment in the non-fatal offences of the person act 1997 s10.2

I am not sure if there is a cyber-bullying element in legislation although there have been calls for it.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/new-laws-to-combat-online-abuse-such-as-cyberbullying-and-revenge-porn-422963.html

It doesn’t matter, under 18 and **** all will be done.

yourdeadwright · 18-06-2019 10:07PM

fritzelly wrote: »

Someone would have had to defend him

He means in this thread not court

tayto lover · 18-06-2019 10:08PM

spurious wrote: »

But yet others say all he does is lie. So he lies about some things but not others?
He isn't lying when he says he was involved, but sometimes he is lying?
(I'm playing devil's advocate here btw in case anyone goes mad).

I wasn't in court and I have no doubt he was involved, but I also agree with the poster who said a murder charge against Boy B was maybe not the way to go. I think he might win an appeal.

He has no chance in an appeal.
Joe O’Reilly had no physical evidence as such against him but he lost his appeals and rightly so. Circumstantial evidence is just as good.

gormdubhgorm · 18-06-2019 10:09PM

dave1982 wrote: »

<snip>

It will be worse for society in the long run if they are exposed.
They will end up being even more messed up and a greater danger.
They will likely be another Jon Venables as a result.

anewme · 18-06-2019 10:10PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Calltocall wrote: »

Are you for real, no surprise they supported him FFS! They knew their son and would have had to of known there were serious inconsistencies in his story but didn’t want to accept that and instead dragged the victims family through a trial instead of grabbing the little **** by the scruff of the neck and make him tell the guards the truth from the outset and make him face the consequences of his actions maybe if they took that line when rearing him he wouldn’t be in the mess he’s in today, now he’s learning the hard way, their are consequences for your actions, they should have taught him that valuable lesson.

The evidence against Boy B is slight and an unsafe conviction I think. Particularly given the exclusion of the psychiatric witness. He'll likely be released by the Appeal Court. I would thus fully expect Boy B's parents to support him though they must have been flabbergasted by his ever-changing statements.

Boy A is an entirely matter.

Boy B's Father was a disrespectful see you next Tuesday, slamming doors, cursing, shouting abuse in the Court when he did not get his way.

Ana's parents remained dignified in the face of horrible evidence.

But what kind of responsible parent skulks off to bed when their son is interviewed at their own front door by Gardai as being the last so see a young girl alive?

Boy B is particularly evil, manipulative sly dog who thought hed get away with it. A junior Graham Dwyer, praying on the vulnerable.

Sunflower 27 · 18-06-2019 10:11PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I happy he lost just like you
All I'm saying is someone had to take case

Well obviously someone was going to take this high profile case. Winning when the odds are stacked against you could do wonders for a career.

fritzelly · 18-06-2019 10:11PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It will be worse for society in the long run if they are exposed.
They will end up being even more messed up and a greater danger.
They will likely be another Jon Venables as a result.

They've killed someone and all the rest - I don't think you can get more messed up than that

Zeek12 · 18-06-2019 10:11PM

Hal3000 wrote: »

I think a few PQs to the Dept of Education are in order. I want to know what's the policy on dealing with bullying? This is crazy how people are saying the schools can do nothing. That's just not acceptable. If we keep pressure on politicians they will have to act. Start petitions ask Parliamentary questions. This issue is at the core of Irish values and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer.

By all means we can explore any way to help schools monitor this better.

But let's not kid ourselves. Values, respect and discipline begin at home.
And the primary responsibility for this lies with parents.

It's quite clear there were issues at home with lack of supervision on these kids' online activities.

All the evidence indicated the worst of the bullying occurred on social media.
Not in school

screamer · 18-06-2019 10:12PM

dd973 wrote: »

There's always been a viciousness in this country towards people deemed different or not fitting in, it hasn't gone away with the disappearance of the industrial schools, magdalen launderies, the lessening of the Church's role in the state or with all the apparent hippy-dippy liberal identity politics that are commoditised to the core.

It's something that's all pervasive and not hard to find if you keep your eyes and ears open, it's directed towards people whom are deemed not Irish enough, LGBT people and those rumoured to be LGBT, Travellers or anybody who 'looks like a Traveller', any male who's not a swaggering pseudo-alpha gob****e, working class people labelled as 'knackers', anybody who basically doesn't fit in with 'Brand Ireland'. It's still a small country with minds to match.

Also fat kids, good looking kids, smarter than average kids, hell, they’ll bully you for anything when you’re not their definition of “normal”.
This is learned behavior and behind every nasty little bullying chunt is a nasty bullying chunt of a parent and that’s why anti bullying gets no traction because the kids are just mirrors of their parents, who see no wrong in teaching their kids to be as vitriolic as themselves

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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