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Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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Comments

  • #902
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,181 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

    A jury of twelve disagree with you. They heard and saw all the evidence, no one else did apart from those allowed in the courtroom.


  • #903
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

    He could have tried to stop it or help her


  • #904
    El_Bee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.


    Seek psychiatric help.


  • #905
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

    No, he just led her there and watched her be murdered and lied about it over and over and did nothing afterwards to help her or alert police to her body.

    Poor Boy B.


  • #906
    holliehobbie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭holliehobbie


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    What good is releasing their names going to do for anybody now?

    Maybe in the future it will alert people to them . It just might stop some women marrying a murderer . Yes name them and let us be aware of them
    I cried when I heard that they were found guilty. I was afraid boyB wouldnt be convicted. My youngest girl was 14 when Ana was murdered. I would not like her or any of her young friends to end up with one of these boys in a couple of years time. They should be named.


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  • #907
    screamer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,194 ✭✭✭screamer


    I think the age of criminal responsibility needs lowering, and once convicted, name and shame them for the good and protection of society. The laws of our country which they broke should not afford them any protection or anonymity. You murder someone, you’re tried as an adult and named when convicted. No more of this child BS.


  • #908
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,409 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

    He led her to her death and stood by as the poor girl was attacked and murdered
    For all we know he might very well have been the master puppeteer. He absolutely is guilty


  • #909
    Tipperary animal lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭Tipperary animal lover


    The sad thing outside of this poor defenseless girl veen killed is that bullying seems to be so normal now, I bet if a couple of ye on here looked at your teenage son/daughters phones, ye would get a bit of a surprise with their social media platforms they use whatapps/viber messages, it's never my johnny/Mary could do something like that( but bullying happens in every school in the country), as a gay guy in my 40s I was bullied none stop in school, thank f*ck no phones back then but the name calling the stuff wrote on walls about me, the dog **** constantly put in my school bag/smeared over books, the school would deal with it!!! I stopped telling them after 3rd year what was going on but hey the bullying kept going till 6th year,but im a much stronger person now, just because kids are different doesn't give anybody the right to pickon/tease/harass/ murder, it's some parents son/daughter that is doing the bullying .... it could your teenager that is sitting down beside you right now


  • #910
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

    You didn’t read any of the evidence. She was attacked before the sexual assault while boy B was there. She was attacked before the sexual assault which was planned.

    Clearly boy A set out to murder and sexually assault. Given that boy B was aware of this and didn’t report it he’s considered complicit.


  • #911
    Amalgam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Boy Bee should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy Bee could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

    He's complicit, lured her knowing harm would come to her. That's what gets him a conviction.


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  • #912
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.



    Lies on top of lies on top of more lies with constant reassessment on how much fabrication he could get away with. Boy A was in custody at that point and no threat to boy b, no harm would have come to him if he was innocent and told the truth.


  • #913
    Calltocall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭Calltocall


    Seathrun66 wrote: »
    Where is the evidence that the parents lied? If so they'd be up on charges of perverting the course of justice.

    In terms of defending your kids it's what parents do. And given the complete lack of DNA and other forensic evidence it's no surprise that Boy B's parents supported him. I expect him to be discharged on appeal.

    Are you for real, no surprise they supported him FFS! They knew their son and would have had to of known there were serious inconsistencies in his story but didn’t want to accept that and instead dragged the victims family through a trial instead of grabbing the little **** by the scruff of the neck and make him tell the guards the truth from the outset and make him face the consequences of his actions maybe if they took that line when rearing him he wouldn’t be in the mess he’s in today, now he’s learning the hard way, there are consequences for your actions, they should have taught him that valuable lesson.


  • #914
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Bee wrote: »
    Schools are effectively paralyzed, suspension is rare and expulsion all but impossible, what would have gotten you expelled 10-15 years ago might get you counseling session where they plead with you to please behave today.

    This sounds like a Dublin issue (& possibly Cork) but nationally? I don't believe the same discipline issues apply in much of the country beyond the Pale.


  • #915
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,542 ✭✭✭Dante7


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

    You weren't in the court and you didn't hear and see all the evidence. The jury seemed to be very capable and diligent and asked to review all his interviews (none of which you have seen). They spent a long time assessing all evidence and arrived at their conclusion unanimously. You can take your armchair opinion and shove it.


  • #916
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Maybe this is a stupid question but is there any crime called bullying even when it's at the extreme end ? Can you go to the garda station and report that your child is being bullied by X ? Because some of these bullies would badly want a squad car to the door or to be up in court.


  • #917
    s3rtvdbwfj81ch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭s3rtvdbwfj81ch


    Sunflower 27 wrote: »
    Maybe. But I'd have refused, was my point.

    which is why you aren't involved in the profession, it's great for you to sit there and judge though, well done you, you're great


  • #918
    Suckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    I see they have removed all of her youtube videos. Just her pending live streams titles are left on her page.
    I wonder if her parents requested that.
    Was very sad to watch them, but lovely to have seen a glimpse of what she was like.


  • #919
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,647 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

    Bulls***.
    He’s equally as guilty as Boy A.

    1. Boy A told him he was going to murder Anna.
    2. Boy B supplied the blue sticky tape used to subdue her.
    3. Boy B watched it without intervening. ( because he was in on it).
    4. Boy B never told what happened, where her body was or who was involved.
    5. Boy B fetched Anna to be murdered.
    6. He lied and lied and changed his story 9 times.

    You could go on and on about Boy B but even with the above he’s a murdering piece of ****.


  • #920
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

    There was plenty of evidence.

    You don't need to have forensic DNA evidence for everything.

    You've done this a few times now where you say x, y or z shouldn't be guilty because of a lack of physical evidence.

    He lied multiple times. He claimed he was never at the scene and then he managed to place himself at the scene after a number of further interviews.

    You weren't in court. You don't know what the jury saw. Cop yourself on.


  • #921
    Gavlor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,203 ✭✭✭Gavlor


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Boy B should not have been found guilty with zero evidence. Guilty or not guilty you can't do that. It's not a safe conviction, there is a chance he was a pawn in it all. I doubt he set out that day to murder someone. Seems to me Boy A sexually assaulted her and she threatened to make him pay by reporting him and at this point he ended up killing her. Boy B could not have known it would escalate to that. Crazy to convict him of murder. He probably never laid a hand on her.

    Should the Driver of a getaway car used in a bank robbery be found guilty if the entire gang were caught and arrested?

    He didn’t rob the bank and could argue that he assumed his mates were going in to discuss their exorbitant overdraft fees. If boy B lured her in to that farmhouse then he deserves to have the book thrown at him.


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  • #922
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,286 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    A jury of twelve disagree with you. They heard and saw all the evidence, no one else did apart from those allowed in the courtroom.


    Yea, and they agreed


    '' there is zero evidence, zero DNA evidence. We have no proof he set out that day with a plan to murder, but he tried to hide what happened straight away in a Garda interview, so we''ll convict him or murder''



    But if it was only a window he broke with a ball he'd have lied about it straight away. It's a huge jump from lying to '' he planed it, he woke up that day, today is the day she dies'' I don't believe that.
    Boy A, He can rot in hell. But Boy B was convicted on lying.


  • #923
    El_Bee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    Seathrun66 wrote: »
    This sounds like a Dublin issue (& possibly Cork) but nationally? I don't believe the same discipline issues apply in much of the country beyond the Pale.


    Maybe, in Dublin definitely, the crazy thing is I have no idea how the teaching unions aren't more vocal about this, the level of chaos and violence in some schools is staggering.


  • #924
    Elemonator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭Elemonator


    bennyl10 wrote: »
    They can’t have been tried as adults afaik?
    Irish law doesn’t allow for it.(agin I could be wrong)

    All child convictions have to be reviewed at 18

    May be tried if the charge is sufficiently serious.


  • #925
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,955 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    tuxy wrote: »
    Bee????

    Lies on top of lies on top of more lies with constant reassessment on how much fabrication he could get away with. Boy A was in custody at that point and no threat to boy b, no harm would have come to him if he was innocent and told the truth.

    Serious question do we know anything about these boys level of competence ?
    Has there been any mention of low IQ or learning difficulties ?
    Boy B either was fully aware and helped set it up or could have been slow and used. ,

    It's a genuine question as I haven't read the whole case


  • #926
    El_Bee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Yea, and they agreed


    '' there is zero evidence, zero DNA evidence. We have no proof he set out that day with a plan to murder, but he tried to hide what happened straight away in a Garda interview, so we''ll convict him or murder''



    But if it was only a window he broke with a ball he'd have lied about it straight away. It's a huge jump from lying to '' he planed it, he woke up that day, today is the day she dies'' I don't believe that.
    Boy A, He can rot in hell. But Boy B was convicted on lying.


    do you have a stake in this case?


  • #927
    screamer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,194 ✭✭✭screamer


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    Maybe this is a stupid question but is there any crime called bullying even when it's at the extreme end ? Can you go to the garda station and report that your child is being bullied by X ? Because some of these bullies would badly want a squad car to the door or to be up in court.

    You know I could tell you a bullying story that would make your hair stand in end with what the bully did, and their parents refused to let them be questioned or anything as they were under 18 and they got away with it scot free. So in short, if your kid is being bullied in school, find a new school, unless your kid is willing to kick the crap out of the bullies, there’s no other way.


  • #928
    El_Bee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Serious question do we know anything about these boys level of competence ?
    Has there been any mention of low IQ or learning difficulties ?
    Boy B either was fully aware and helped set it up or could have been slow and used. ,

    It's a genuine question as I haven't read the whole case


    Yes, Boy B was very articulate and clever during interviews. I don't want to know about "learning difficulties", that's something thrown out to defend scumbags on a daily basis, what it actually means is, they never paid a minutes attention in school and can barely read & write as a result, in any case, neither of them have "learning difficulties".


  • #929
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Serious question do we know anything about these boys level of competence ?
    Has there been any mention of low IQ or learning difficulties ?
    Boy B either was fully aware and helped set it up or could have been slow and used. ,

    It's a genuine question as I haven't read the whole case

    Boy B is described as "highly intelligent" and "very bright" in the articles.


  • #930
    seasidedub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭seasidedub


    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/

    This is an interesting article on child psychopaths.

    Most psychiatric experts believe it can simply happen, a Neuro glitch and not always the result of trauma, poor parents etc. Their brains, particularly the reward centres are wired differently.

    Obviously backgrounds like Thompson and Venebles won't help, but it can happen in a totally normal family too


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  • #931
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Shiloh Puny Keyboard wrote: »
    which is why you aren't involved in the profession, it's great for you to sit there and judge though, well done you, you're great

    Saying I wouldn't haven't defended him would have been a choice I made. Not sure why that makes me wrong, but anyhoo


This discussion has been closed.
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