Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Gimme A Pound · 18-06-2019 08:32PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Erotic, and auto erotic, asphyxiation, it's a thing that some people like, not my bag but each to their own if it's between 1 or 2 consenting adults.

"A compilation clip of choking porn where women are choked unconscious while having sex."

Again... the issue is with 13-year-olds having access to it.

Nerdlingr · 18-06-2019 08:32PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

One thing strange from reading this article- https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570

Boy B immediately incriminated boy A as the last to see Ana before she disappeared...yet from the reading of the article the police didn’t immediately approach Boy A to talk to him. Weird??

They did talk to him. But only in the capacity of a missing persons issue at the start, and him being one I'd the last to see her. When Boy A then gave the story of being beaten up by two men, to account for his injuries, the Gardai then investigated this assault. This gave them justifiable reason to size the clothes he was wearing on the day. Ana's body is found and the DNA test on Boy A's clothes matches hers. The gardai were spot on and followed the correct course of action here.
The defence even tried to have the bloodied boots etc thrown out as evidence because they argued they gardai had them tested for DNA and it prejudiced their investigation. The investigating Garda said that couldn't be because they didn't even know ana was dead at that point.
Fair play to all gardai involved in this. It can't have been easy dealing and seeing with everything. But they followed each step perfectly and got the correct outcome.

Lackadaisical · 18-06-2019 08:32PM

The social media platforms really do need to contribute a LOT more to tackling the cyber bullying their systems are enabling. I really do think they are getting a free ride. They make a fortune and a vulnerable % of their user base is simply not being protected.

I don't think it can be dealt with by censorship or pushing the technology back as the genie is very much out of the bottle at this stage and isn't going to go back in again.

We need huge resources put into education and support for parents, teachers and end-users in general. We're not all social media gurus, but if we are in a crisis situation, the networks should be making one easily available.

They also need to be MUCH quicker about reacting to reports of abusive behaviour and content.

Grayson · 18-06-2019 08:32PM

JuneMoon7 wrote: »

Are you for real. Parents lied and defended those little ****s even though they KNEW they were guilty as hell. All they cared about was themselves. What about the real victim? what about Ana?? They acted like they were the victims. They raised two feral monsters

In defense of boy b's father I'll say this. After reading the fantastic article in the Irish Times, Boy Be seems to be the smarter of the two. He was an eloquent manipulative little ****head. He lied constantly. I have no trouble believing that his father believes he's innocent. He's his father, he loves him and the child is manipulative.

Someday it's quite likely he'll come to realise what his son is like.

After reading that article I was also struck by how much of Boy A's character we know about because of Boy B. And yet Boy B lies constantly. I wouldn't trust a word he says and I could fully believe it was his idea.

fryup · 18-06-2019 08:32PM

Sir Oxman wrote: »

They'll be in some borstal for a few years and out by the time they hit 20 with a new ID and job and house.
Guaranteed.

they'll have to leave the country..there's no way they could remain anonymous in a small country like ireland

gormdubhgorm · 18-06-2019 08:35PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You get a few articles a week free, but try going icognito.

That's the only suggestion I have at the minute.

It is a truly great article, glad to see there are some fine print journalists left to report factually by themselves based on the facts of the case, not pulled from some other news source.

Horrible horrible crime. What gets me most is the fact that two 13 year olds were up to that. Maybe times have changed, but I would think this kind of thinking started way before the actual crime, and I still can't believe that 12/13 year olds could be capable of this. But why am I suprised really, anything can happen anywhere.

Do an internet search on the Jamie Bulger case. It happened in 1993 in Liverpool. The perpetrators Robert Thompson and Jon Venables were aged 10. And the psychologists who analysed it said both Thompson and Venables egged each other on, and would not have committed the crime on thier own.
They only got 8 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger#Appeal_and_release

Grayson · 18-06-2019 08:36PM

Lackadaisical wrote: »

The social media platforms really do need to contribute a LOT more to tackling the cyber bullying their systems are enabling. I really do think they are getting a free ride. They make a fortune and a vulnerable % of their user base is simply not being protected.

I don't think it can be dealt with by censorship or pushing the technology back as the genie is very much out of the bottle at this stage and isn't going to go back in again.

We need huge resources put into education and support for parents, teachers and end-users in general. We're not all social media gurus, but if we are in a crisis situation, the networks should be making one easily available.

They also need to be MUCH quicker about reacting to reports of abusive behaviour and content.

Kids find a way round it. Create anonymous accounts and stuff like that. We need far more anti bullying and equality teaching. Ana was picked on because she was just a bit different and we need to stop that kind of stuff happening. We need better systems in place in schools where kids can approach people and talk about it and parents can get involved. Sure social media companies can get involved but we have to address the problem outside of the technical sphere as well.

AMKC · 18-06-2019 08:36PM

Delighted that these two scumbags have been found guilty.

I hope the two scumbags are put in a dark cell to let rot and never let out.

Ana had so much to live for and so much potential but these two scumbags took that away from her.

Such a very sad case.

Rest in Peace Ana. You did not deserve what happened to you.

downwesht · 18-06-2019 08:37PM

If I was the father of either of those two monsters....I would have taken them on a trip to the Cliffs of Moher,they would have either jumped or i'd have thrown them over.How could you live with the fear that they might reoffend.If a dog bites you put him down.....

Ash.J.Williams · 18-06-2019 08:39PM

Grayson wrote: »

In defense of boy b's father I'll say this. After reading the fantastic article in the Irish Times, Boy Be seems to be the smarter of the two. He was an eloquent manipulative little ****head. He lied constantly. I have no trouble believing that his father believes he's innocent. He's his father, he loves him and the child is manipulative.

Someday it's quite likely he'll come to realise what his son is like.

After reading that article I was also struck by how much of Boy A's character we know about because of Boy B. And yet Boy B lies constantly. I wouldn't trust a word he says and I could fully believe it was his idea.

Just thinking about it now I always thought one of the Jamie bulger killers was cooler more calculating and more psycho than the other and I'm wondering is boy b the same?

18-06-2019 08:40PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Eh, because It would imply that 13yr Boy B was already on the PULSE system.

That doesn't mean anything bad.
Everyone with any interaction with gardai is on pulse. Anyone who reports something missing is on pulse. Anyone who is an injured party is on pulse. Anyone who is a witness to anything is on pulse. Anyone involved in any incident involving Gardai is on pulse.
It doesn't mean anything bad about anyone.

Wheeliebin30 · 18-06-2019 08:40PM

I’m amazed two 13 year olds didn’t crack been interviewed by Gardai.

Most people would be bricking it and just admit it especially kids.

18-06-2019 08:41PM

n97 mini wrote: »

No. Nothing links boy B to anything apart from his own mouth.

And that fact that he called for her & was seen with her.

Grayson · 18-06-2019 08:41PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Just thinking about it now I always thought one of the Jamie bulger killers was cooler more calculating and more psycho than the other and I'm wondering is boy b the same?

That's what I was thinking. He only ever gave out information to help himself. The other kid said feck all. I think Boy B thought he was smarter than everyone else.

Dots1982 · 18-06-2019 08:41PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

They did talk to him. But only in the capacity of a missing persons issue at the start, and him being one I'd the last to see her. When Boy A then gave the story of being beaten up by two men, to account for his injuries, the Gardai then investigated this assault. This gave them justifiable reason to size the clothes he was wearing on the day. Ana's body is found and the DNA test on Boy A's clothes matches hers. The gardai were spot on and followed the correct course of action here.
The defence even tried to have the bloodied boots etc thrown out as evidence because they argued they gardai had them tested for DNA and it prejudiced their investigation. The investigating Garda said that couldn't be because they didn't even know ana was dead at that point.
Fair play to all gardai involved in this. It can't have been easy dealing and seeing with everything. But they followed each step perfectly and got the correct outcome.

Yeah from rereading it they bring boy A in with Boy B to the field as soon as possible; Tuesday afternoon after Monday disappearance.

It just reads a bit weird because the article goes on about leads going no where in the meantime as well as a random encounter with boy A and his father when they are out searching. Strange this happened in this short a window.

gmisk · 18-06-2019 08:42PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I’m amazed two 13 year olds didn’t crack been interviewed by Gardai.

Most people would be bricking it and just admit it especially kids.

13 year olds would not be interviewed without being well versed by a solicitor and parents let's be honest.

18-06-2019 08:42PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Boy B stood and watched the whole thing.
There was blood on his shoe was there not?

That's Boy A. There were no forensic ties whatsoever to Boy B. Had he remained silent or just given a brief early statement he'd be free. The lies during garda questioning got him convicted.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 18-06-2019 08:43PM

bubblypop wrote: »

And that fact that he called for her & was seen with her.

Which doesn’t mean he killed her or knew about it. It he had shopped boy A the next day he would be free now. It’s because he didn’t that suspicion falls on him. It’s a definitely less clear cut case than boy A but I believe that justice was done.

Sunflower 27 · 18-06-2019 08:43PM

Grayson wrote: »

After reading that article I was also struck by how much of Boy A's character we know about because of Boy B. And yet Boy B lies constantly. I wouldn't trust a word he says and I could fully believe it was his idea.

I agree. Boy B possibly thought if he just led Ana to her death and there was none of his DNA at the scene then he was safe and sound. He could witness a brutal killing and live out a fantasy and his friend would be the one to get all the blame.

I don't believe his father is clueless and in denial. He knows his son better than any of us ever could and we are getting the measure of him (manipulative, deceptive, crafty) in a few short interviews

SEPT 23 1989 · 18-06-2019 08:43PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I’m amazed two 13 year olds didn’t crack been interviewed by Gardai.

Most people would be bricking it and just admit it especially kids.

We had a fear of the law

Times have changed for some

jam_mac_jam · 18-06-2019 08:44PM

They are both evil bastards. It doesn't really matter who egged who on they are both obviously very dangerous.

If they would plan and do that at thirteen god knows what they would do when they are fully grown men.

Hurrache · 18-06-2019 08:44PM

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

"A compilation clip of choking porn where women are choked unconscious while having sex."

Again... the issue is with 13-year-olds having access to it.

That's not what you said though, you said any adult defending porn should reconsider.

Grayson · 18-06-2019 08:45PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I agree. Boy B possibly thought if he just led Ana to her death and their was none of his DNA at the scene then he was safe and sound. He could witness a brutal killing and live out a fantasy and his friend would be the one to get all the blame.

I don't believe his father is clueless and in denial. He knows his son better than any of us ever could and we are getting the measure of him (manipulative, deceptive, crafty) in a few short interviews

A boy that manipulative could manipulate a father.

The thing is the only two people who know what happened is those boys. I don't know if we'll even know how much each was involved in the planning.

InTheShadows · 18-06-2019 08:45PM

Lackadaisical wrote: »

The social media platforms really do need to contribute a LOT more to tackling the cyber bullying their systems are enabling. I really do think they are getting a free ride. They make a fortune and a vulnerable % of their user base is simply not being protected.

I don't think it can be dealt with by censorship or pushing the technology back as the genie is very much out of the bottle at this stage and isn't going to go back in again.

We need huge resources put into education and support for parents, teachers and end-users in general. We're not all social media gurus, but if we are in a crisis situation, the networks should be making one easily available.

They also need to be MUCH quicker about reacting to reports of abusive behaviour and content.

Social media access should be linked to your PPS number in this country. If you are not over 18 then you should have no access. A simple government agency can run the thing as i wouldn't want the likes of Facebook having my PPS details.

There are kids as young as 12 passing around images of human beings being beheaded and the like. It's time for drastic action.

Stop moaning ffs · 18-06-2019 08:45PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I’m amazed two 13 year olds didn’t crack been interviewed by Gardai.

Most people would be bricking it and just admit it especially kids.

Two future FG members for sure

Mod-Yup, thats a ban.

voldejoie · 18-06-2019 08:46PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

They should have been advised to plead guilty from the beginning. It is sickening that poor Ana’s entire teenage life had to be out there for all of us to see.

I just think that once she had moved on to college and away from whatever goes on in schools right now that she would have found real friends and grown into a wonderful woman.

I can't stop thinking about this, the absolute torment the poor girl went through and how much brighter things could have gotten for her if she had had a chance to get through school and into the wider world. As many have said, absolutely heartbreaking that part of the ruse to lead her away was to make her believe she was making friends.

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Just reading the two were excused from the court room when the details of the attack and beating etc were being read to the jury.

They should have been made to ait through it.

This really annoyed me, that the rest of the court and Ana's parents had to sit through all of those details with the full knowledge that she was given such a brutal and violent death, and the very ones responsible for it are spared it. It would be funny if it wasn't so depressing.

The guards and the DPP did an incredible job in bringing this case to trial in a timely and effective way, staying within all of the rules and guidelines so the investigation couldn't be impugned on a technicality and doing their best for the Kriegel family throughout this absolute nightmare.

The fact that 13 year olds can plan and carry out something this heinous makes me feel sick. It's terrifying to think what they will be capable of when they're fully grown up and the danger they could pose.

Grayson · 18-06-2019 08:46PM

pablo128 wrote: »

Lad, you will go to jail if you are caught identifying them. Give over for your own sake.

I fully understand why they can't be identified and i wouldn't do it but it's weird considering a whole town knows them.

Sunflower 27 · 18-06-2019 08:47PM

Grayson wrote: »

A boy that manipulative could manipulate a father.

The thing is the only two people who know what happened is those boys. I don't know if we'll even know how much each was involved in the planning.

I'm not saying Boy B didn't manipulate his father, I'm sure he did. I am just not convinced his father really believes his ridiculous story.

But yep, we will never know.

Gimme A Pound · 18-06-2019 08:47PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Two future FG members for sure

Ffs.

Wheeliebin30 · 18-06-2019 08:48PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Two future FG members for sure

The fact you would use this girls murder to make a political statement and get one up on me tells me all I need to know.

You absolute sick scumbag.

Go away into a quite place for everyone’s sake.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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